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Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
That spell in both games feels so similar, though. You expend Energy on the Left for Health on the right and both enact a short charge with a pulse at the end. Neither can be performed aerially or underwater. It's not just "a heal."

Cherry picking items that are similar to other games doesn't imply they've lifted from each other, it's such a simple concept to accept, it's like your trying confirm your imaginary ideas instead of recognising official information. A complete failure of comprehension .
 

thomasmahler

Game Director at Moon Studios
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,097
Vienna / Austria
This thread, man... I'm dying :D

I find it hilarious that Hollow Knight came out 2 years after Ori and the Blind Forest, so they probably had enough time to study our stuff, but no way in hell would they ever do that, right? Then Will of the Wisps comes out and obviously we copied all their sutff, even though some of the things talked about here that we apparently ripped off were already part of Ori and the Blind Forest, like the healing when casting.

Fe and Song of the Deep were both directly made because of Ori and the Blind Forest's success, so maaaaaaybe Team Cherry looked at our stuff as well? I don't know what's going on here, but some of these theories are just... holy shit, lol.
 

medyej

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,422
They definitely took some ideas from Hollow Knight, which makes sense as HK became a legendary metroidvania that is thought of as one of the best in the genre, while the first Ori kind of came and went despite it's way higher production values.

Denying it seems kind of absurd, I mean it's really clear if you play both games.
 

Conciliator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,123
Shouts out to hollow knight for inventing flying enemies, buying maps, and the concept of spending mana/energy to heal yourself
 

Zaubrer

Member
Oct 16, 2018
1,394
The only point where I immediatly thought about Hollow Knight was the map seller. Not because it's a novelty that you can buy maps but because he also felt a bit cranky, comparably to Cornifer. Obviously he missed the iconic song, but still, an especially eccentric character.

Besides that I'd say that Hollow Knight definitely didn't invent the wheel lol
 

skillzilla81

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,043
They definitely took some ideas from Hollow Knight, which makes sense as HK became a legendary metroidvania that is thought of as one of the best in the genre, while the first Ori kind of came and went despite it's way higher production values.

Denying it seems kind of absurd, I mean it's really clear if you play both games.

Or, it's clear if you only played those games and have no greater frame of reference.

And saying the first Ori came and went is really silly.
 

Wordstar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
303
Germany
This thread, man... I'm dying :D

I find it hilarious that Hollow Knight came out 2 years after Ori and the Blind Forest, so they probably had enough time to study our stuff, but no way in hell would they ever do that, right? Then Will of the Wisps comes out and obviously we copied all their sutff, even though some of the things talked about here that we apparently ripped off were already part of Ori and the Blind Forest, like the healing when casting.

Fe and Song of the Deep were both directly made because of Ori and the Blind Forest's success, so maaaaaaybe Team Cherry looked at our stuff as well? I don't know what's going on here, but some of these theories are just... holy shit, lol.

Ok fair point. But i dont get why one would not admitt to using some of the others stuff. I mean whats the problem. Why beat around the bush?
It just hurts me that there isnt a bit of credit for a 2 man indie team wich made one hell of a metroidvania.

Im surely not a bad person thomasmahler But i do like my justice.

And i like to fight for whats right.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,647
This thread, man... I'm dying :D

I find it hilarious that Hollow Knight came out 2 years after Ori and the Blind Forest, so they probably had enough time to study our stuff, but no way in hell would they ever do that, right? Then Will of the Wisps comes out and obviously we copied all their sutff, even though some of the things talked about here that we apparently ripped off were already part of Ori and the Blind Forest, like the healing when casting.

Fe and Song of the Deep were both directly made because of Ori and the Blind Forest's success, so maaaaaaybe Team Cherry looked at our stuff as well? I don't know what's going on here, but some of these theories are just... holy shit, lol.

This place has terrible takes at the best of times.

Thanks for the amazing games. Ive said the same to TC regarding HK as i love both. I feel like a lot of people havent played many metroidvania style games to suggest such stupid things tbh. As most of the so called copied ideas have been done retro castlevanias as well.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,117
UK
thomasmahler it goes quite a bit further than this.

Maybe you havent played your own game then? The Map maker? The Fly enemies? The Battle Chalenge Sections? The Nail? The Charms? I mean come on! Maybe your not a big fan of Hollow Knight but you sure did copy a lot of things! And thats not even a bad thing... Hollow Knight is awesome!

It is bad to deny it however.
So how about giving a little bit of Credit to Team Cherry instead of being this arrogant.

Its not a cool thing seeing the maker of one of your favorite games being like this. It just doesnt sit well with me.
Ok fair point. But i dont get why one would not admitt to using some of the others stuff. I mean whats the problem. Why beat around the bush?
It just hurts me that there isnt a bit of credit for a 2 man indie team wich made one hell of a metroidvania.

Im surely not a bad person thomasmahler But i do like my justice.

And i like to fight for whats right.
plant.jpg


You're being really rude, man...
 

Bansai

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,235
This thread, man... I'm dying :D

I find it hilarious that Hollow Knight came out 2 years after Ori and the Blind Forest, so they probably had enough time to study our stuff, but no way in hell would they ever do that, right? Then Will of the Wisps comes out and obviously we copied all their sutff, even though some of the things talked about here that we apparently ripped off were already part of Ori and the Blind Forest, like the healing when casting.

Fe and Song of the Deep were both directly made because of Ori and the Blind Forest's success, so maaaaaaybe Team Cherry looked at our stuff as well? I don't know what's going on here, but some of these theories are just... holy shit, lol.

Have a few laughs in the office and move on, it's not worth it. :}
 

denx

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,321
Man I can't believe Super Metroid is a Hollow Knight ripoff, wtf was Nintendo thinking
 

thomasmahler

Game Director at Moon Studios
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,097
Vienna / Austria
They definitely took some ideas from Hollow Knight, which makes sense as HK became a legendary metroidvania that is thought of as one of the best in the genre, while the first Ori kind of came and went despite it's way higher production values.

Really now? Ori and the Blind Forest still has higher sales numbers than Hollow Knight, even though that game shipped on all platforms out there.

Folks, get a grip!
 

Deleted member 8468

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
9,109
thomasmahler it goes quite a bit further than this.

Maybe you havent played your own game then? The Map maker? The Fly enemies? The Battle Chalenge Sections? The Nail? The Charms? I mean come on! Maybe your not a big fan of Hollow Knight but you sure did copy a lot of things! And thats not even a bad thing... Hollow Knight is awesome!

It is bad to deny it however.
So how about giving a little bit of Credit to Team Cherry instead of being this arrogant.

Its not a cool thing seeing the maker of one of your favorite games being like this. It just doesnt sit well with me.
Holy cow. Directly calling a dev a liar is a new one for me.

I'm sure no one at Moon Studios has played either Ori game.
 

Wordstar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
303
Germany
It shouldnt be about which one sold more or which one is better. Its about admitting to putting f...ing cornifer in the game !!!
 
Oct 27, 2017
770
They definitely took some ideas from Hollow Knight, which makes sense as HK became a legendary metroidvania that is thought of as one of the best in the genre, while the first Ori kind of came and went despite it's way higher production values.

Denying it seems kind of absurd, I mean it's really clear if you play both games.

Ori came and went are you for real? Like this thread would make a tiny bit of sense if the people that were supporting this claim weren't clearly showing bias any chance they got. Play other games like this and not just hollow knight. Doing that would help you not seem so arrogant.
 

QuinchoOsito

Member
Oct 10, 2018
545
This thread, man... I'm dying :D

I find it hilarious that Hollow Knight came out 2 years after Ori and the Blind Forest, so they probably had enough time to study our stuff, but no way in hell would they ever do that, right? Then Will of the Wisps comes out and obviously we copied all their sutff, even though some of the things talked about here that we apparently ripped off were already part of Ori and the Blind Forest, like the healing when casting.

Fe and Song of the Deep were both directly made because of Ori and the Blind Forest's success, so maaaaaaybe Team Cherry looked at our stuff as well? I don't know what's going on here, but some of these theories are just... holy shit, lol.
Lol you're stronger than I would be trying to reason with some of these claims. Anyways, great job on the game, it's top-notch so far
 

ev0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,425
What is even a metroidvania? Are those even games. I say we should redub the genre "HollowKnight-likes"
 

medyej

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,422
Really now? Ori and the Blind Forest still has higher sales numbers than Hollow Knight, even though that game shipped on all platforms out there.

Folks, get a grip!
Really bringing up sales numbers of a first party game with the great production values of Ori vs an indie like HK... It's not me that needs to get a grip. I was obviously talking about the public consciousness and community, which HK has built a huge following out of.

Honestly that reply is really petty especially considering how much of HK's mechanics were lifted for Ori 2.
 

thomasmahler

Game Director at Moon Studios
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,097
Vienna / Austria
Ok fair point. But i dont get why one would not admitt to using some of the others stuff. I mean whats the problem. Why beat around the bush?
It just hurts me that there isnt a bit of credit for a 2 man indie team wich made one hell of a metroidvania.

Im surely not a bad person thomasmahler But i do like my justice.

And i like to fight for whats right.
I credit all the other developers out there that I copy ideas from all the time! I have 0 issues with that. I love Nintendo and From, I bring them up in almost every interview. I love the old Igavanias, I also bring that up a ton. I just didn't like Hollow Knight, at least not enough to copy from it. Team Cherry made a great game and we definitely need more of that and it's awesome that there's more good Metroidvanias out there, since when we released Blind Forest, there was Aquaria and Shadow Complex and that was pretty much it... Trust me, if I take inspiration from something, I have no qualms talking about it, cause I don't see that as a bad thing. Everyone copies from everyone else and that's totally fine. There have been numerous games that lifted our mechanics and art style and so on and I know EA greenlit Unraveled because Ori was a huge success, they told me so in person. But do I have to admit that I copied something from Hollow Knight even though I really, really didn't, cause I didn't like the game? No, get outta here, man :D
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,859
This thread, man... I'm dying :D

I find it hilarious that Hollow Knight came out 2 years after Ori and the Blind Forest, so they probably had enough time to study our stuff, but no way in hell would they ever do that, right? Then Will of the Wisps comes out and obviously we copied all their sutff, even though some of the things talked about here that we apparently ripped off were already part of Ori and the Blind Forest, like the healing when casting.

Fe and Song of the Deep were both directly made because of Ori and the Blind Forest's success, so maaaaaaybe Team Cherry looked at our stuff as well? I don't know what's going on here, but some of these theories are just... holy shit, lol.

Just put on ignore and move on.

You are just waiting your time with people that only played Hollow Knight and never touched any other Metroidvania game ever released.

When you have people saying that Ori ripped off the "Thorn" ability from Hollow Knight, when this is a mechanic that has been on ARPGs for decades, you just have to laugh and move on.
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
This thread is a perfect example of why/how devs can't engage with their playerbase. It never goes well for the devs and it just doesn't seem worth it in the long run.
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,081
DX691fC.png


Taking inspirations from things is fine, it's not plagiarism lol. iirc HK took inspiration from Paper Mario for the shard system and Bloodborne rally mechanic for getting Soul to heal.
 

Gundam

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,801
When Braid has you barrel-jump over mobs on inclines and over green pipes it's very clearly an homage to the medium (unlike, say, Flappy Bird's green pipes which are closer to theft).

When WotW redoes its combat and includes identical uncredited systems and elements from Hollow Knight that weren't present in BF, it's a tougher pill for me to swallow.

Just saying, the new combat is way more "Smash Brothers" than it is Hollow Knight
 

finalflame

Product Management
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,538
This thread, man... I'm dying :D

I find it hilarious that Hollow Knight came out 2 years after Ori and the Blind Forest, so they probably had enough time to study our stuff, but no way in hell would they ever do that, right? Then Will of the Wisps comes out and obviously we copied all their sutff, even though some of the things talked about here that we apparently ripped off were already part of Ori and the Blind Forest, like the healing when casting.

Fe and Song of the Deep were both directly made because of Ori and the Blind Forest's success, so maaaaaaybe Team Cherry looked at our stuff as well? I don't know what's going on here, but some of these theories are just... holy shit, lol.
You have the patience and disposition of a saint to still be here politely engaging with the kind of crowd that spews this toxic narrative. Kudos for valuing engaging the community enough to deal with these most rotten of apples that are so prominent around these parts.

I regrettably haven't had a chance to play WotW yet, but loved Ori and the Blind Forest. Hopefully soon. Amazing work, congrats to the team!
 

Wordstar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
303
Germany
Ok... people... gotta go... Will of the Wisps is waiting ;-) Go and play the game... has some nice things from Hollow Knight in it by the way.
 

Manu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,119
Buenos Aires, Argentina
The saddest part of this thread is the people shitting on Hollow Knight which is also an excellent game because of the baseless accusations.

You poisoned your own thread OP. Hope you're happy.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,647
The Map maker? - Map providing NPCs done in castlevania games since the nintendo DS era

The Fly enemies? i dont even know what to...what? are you ok?

The Battle Chalenge Sections? Time trials in 2d games have been around since basically like...forever

The Nail? HK invented blades in side scrollers? are you serious?

The Charms? Been in games since dawn of sorrow and diablo 2


Its fine to be uneducated, but dont come out with this garbage like plagarism and "doesnt sit well with me" and "i like to fight for whats right". The hell is wrong with this place sometimes?
 

jaymzi

Member
Jul 22, 2019
6,539
Damn looks like we got a Hollow Knight VS Ori rivalry going on.

Perfect timing with Silksong coming out soon as well.
 

SimpleCRIPPLE

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,224
This thread is a perfect example of why/how devs can't engage with their playerbase. It never goes well for the devs and it just doesn't seem worth it in the long run.

Yup. at this points the devs need to bail out, because it feels like this is on the verge of turning into something what will end up with an apology from the studio tomorrow.

It's incredibly difficult to defend yourself without coming off as dismissive or arrogant. Even harder when you're dealing with a crowd that's prone to overreact or snap to the wrong assessment.
 

finalflame

Product Management
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,538
Hmm what a disappointing post.
Not disappointing at all -- you expect to spew toxic, needlessly confrontational crap, you're going to get some hard truths back. What's disappointing is the way the community in this thread is treating a creator going out of their way to politely engage them in discussion, as many of us don't do because it's not worth it as we're seeing here. You're proving an age-old belief that is prominent in this industry for a reason, that it's not worth engaging. thomasmahler has been a class act and, once again, ERA is embarrassing itself.
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,859
The Map maker? - Map providing NPCs done in castlevania games since the nintendo DS era

The Fly enemies? i dont even know what to...what? are you ok?

The Battle Chalenge Sections? Time trials in 2d games have been around since basically like...forever

The Nail? HK invented blades in side scrollers? are you serious?

The Charms? Been in games since dawn of sorrow and diablo 2


Its fine to be uneducated, but dont come out with this garbage like plagarism and "doesnt sit well with me" and "i like to fight for whats right". The hell is wrong with this place sometimes?

Every user with a basic knowledge is already aware of these mechanics , but this thread is full of people that probably started to play yesterday.
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
5,063
thomasmahler it goes quite a bit further than this.

Maybe you havent played your own game then? The Map maker? The Fly enemies? The Battle Chalenge Sections? The Nail? The Charms? I mean come on! Maybe your not a big fan of Hollow Knight but you sure did copy a lot of things! And thats not even a bad thing... Hollow Knight is awesome!

It is bad to deny it however.
So how about giving a little bit of Credit to Team Cherry instead of being this arrogant.

Its not a cool thing seeing the maker of one of your favorite games being like this. It just doesnt sit well with me.
Buying a map for each area isn't a unique concept lol. Do you hear a little jingle when the map maker is nearby in Ori?
Fly enemies... Seriously? flying enemies are patented I suppose.
Are you comparing the Combat shrines to the coliseum in HK? Those are two very, very different things.
The melee sword in ori is one of many, many weapons you can use in combat. Hell you can play through the entire game and not use it. And I don't think having a sword is something you need to give credit for.
The charms are certainly similar, though also decisively different. The upgrade system is very different, for one, and how you get new charm slots too. There also isn't a "two slots, 4 slots" system, (at least not that I think, I'm around 5 or so hours into Ori 2).

So no, I don't think they "copied a lot of things".
 

litebrite

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,832
The Map maker? - Map providing NPCs done in castlevania games since the nintendo DS era

The Fly enemies? i dont even know what to...what? are you ok?

The Battle Chalenge Sections? Time trials in 2d games have been around since basically like...forever

The Nail? HK invented blades in side scrollers? are you serious?

The Charms? Been in games since dawn of sorrow and diablo 2


Its fine to be uneducated, but dont come out with this garbage like plagarism and "doesnt sit well with me" and "i like to fight for whats right". The hell is wrong with this place sometimes?
It's amazing how these posters lack self relfection and can't see how ridiculous they sound.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,063
thomasmahler it goes quite a bit further than this.

Maybe you havent played your own game then? The Map maker? The Fly enemies? The Battle Chalenge Sections? The Nail? The Charms? I mean come on! Maybe your not a big fan of Hollow Knight but you sure did copy a lot of things! And thats not even a bad thing... Hollow Knight is awesome!

It is bad to deny it however.
So how about giving a little bit of Credit to Team Cherry instead of being this arrogant.

Its not a cool thing seeing the maker of one of your favorite games being like this. It just doesnt sit well with me.
wow wow wow
dude re-read your posts before posting them. this is "square just shot themselves in the foot" type material

Im surely not a bad person thomasmahler But i do like my justice.

And i like to fight for whats right.
I.

Am.

GAMER.
 

SnatcherHunter

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
13,479
thomasmahler it goes quite a bit further than this.

Maybe you havent played your own game then? The Map maker? The Fly enemies? The Battle Chalenge Sections? The Nail? The Charms? I mean come on! Maybe your not a big fan of Hollow Knight but you sure did copy a lot of things! And thats not even a bad thing... Hollow Knight is awesome!

It is bad to deny it however.
So how about giving a little bit of Credit to Team Cherry instead of being this arrogant.

Its not a cool thing seeing the maker of one of your favorite games being like this. It just doesnt sit well with me.
What kind of post is this? Calm down.
I hate HK, and I love Ori. There's no way Moon copied HK. There could be some similarities, but most games have them now in days.
 

Gundam

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,801
Ori 2 combat is also way better than HK and it's completely different to begin with lol

I don't really like Hollow Knight all that much to begin with, so I'm not a great barometer, but I didn't really care for Ori 2's combat for the first hour or two. Honestly I kind of prefer the wisp shooting of the original. I get why the new combat is the way it is, and it's starting to get pretty good in it's own right, but after playing the first Ori for the first time just the other day, I liked how it reminded me of a perfect three-way synthesis of Hollow Knight, Iconoclasts, and The Messenger, despite predating all of those.

But back to Ori 2, I feel like the biggest change is the quest system. I guess Ori 2 decided to plagiarize... Skyrim? Or something?
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,798
I'm like 4, maybe 5 hours into Ori 2, and it has dawned on me that the game does take a lot of influence from Hollow Knight -- whether that was intentional or not; games aren't made by just one person, and people play other games than the ones they make, so nailing down intention can be hard. Regardless, Ori 2 is a fantastic title that stands on its own two feet and delivers 100% on its promise.

This is not plagiarism. Video game development doesn't happen in a vacuum, and decisions are made all the time that are influenced by earlier games. Ori 2 is guilty of the same things HK is -- they both looked to the past for inspiration, and brought the good ideas forward with them.
 
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