Exactly.
Braid borrowed quite a bit from Mario games too. But I don't remember anyone giving that shit for it. This is a joke thread, has to be.
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Is Ori & The Will O’ The Wisps Pastiche or plagiarist?
- Thread starter mindsale
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Exactly.
Braid borrowed quite a bit from Mario games too. But I don't remember anyone giving that shit for it. This is a joke thread, has to be.
OP
OP
When Braid has you barrel-jump over mobs on inclines and over green pipes it's very clearly an homage to the medium (unlike, say, Flappy Bird's green pipes which are closer to theft).
When WotW redoes its combat and includes identical uncredited systems and elements from Hollow Knight that weren't present in BF, it's a tougher pill for me to swallow.
What systems are you talking about? Melee weapons? Buying maps? Perk system and slots?
But one is very very good, one of the best metroidvanias ever made and the other is Hollow Knight.
You can definitely see quite a bit of Hollow Knight in Will of the Wisps, but like others have said it's certainly not even close to the levels of plagiarism. One of the really great things about Will of the Wisps is how they've managed to address so many of the shortcomings of the original game (in particular the horrible combat and mediocre world design) while still maintaining nearly all the strengths. It would be incredibly silly for the developers not to take inspiration from the best game in the genre, anyway.
I haven't played a lot yet but I don't really see HK combat in this combat system. Can't speak to the other features yet.
Like any game, it has it's crazy fans. I don't get why some in the community have had a hate on for Ori. Even before the sequel.
Is this a common opinion? I played Ori for the first time this week and posted the exact same impressions and got a big backlash for it.
Ori to me was a must-play 7/10.
There are a lot of die-hard Ori 1 defenders on this site but yeah it's a pretty common take.
I'm really glad to hear it sounds like 2 is better in that regard if it goes in a more Hollow Knight direction.
Gotcha. Definitely going to play Ori 2 based on impressions, despite the toxic fanbase.
It seems like most of the hateful posts and shit-posts in this thread are attacking HK though.
That's a bunch of really generic things to attribute to any one game, just because Hollow Knight was a popular metroidvania game that had those things first.
You have inspired me to start calling better-than-fantastic games "Hollow Knights", thank you
I hope Silksong is a full-on Hollow Knight and not just fantastic
I'm not even a big fan of Hollow Knight, so no, sorry to burst your bubble, but Hollow Knight wasn't really an inspiration. And I have no problem openly admitting what which games we're directly inspired by. The reason why we have a lot more NPCs in the game now is because people loved the Blind Forest characters and we wanted to expand upon that. Another reason was because we loved how Nintendo went from Zelda 1 to Zelda 3, where you suddenly had all these characters giving you clues and hints and all that stuff, so we decided to head into a similar direction. The Shard System is directly inspired by the Final Fantasy VII materia system and at some point in the game we literally had slots in all the skills that you inserted shards into - that became too cumbersome, so we turned it into a global system. The Melee stuff is inspired by Symphony of the Night and Dark Souls, mostly, those are games we looked at when it came to how to make the combat feel satisfying and crunchy - I didn't even like Hollow Knights simplistic combat, so why would I copy that? I mean, I get that fans might see similarities between the games, but I wasn't even a fan of the game when I played it, so...
I think it's possible to take inspiration from a game, even if you didn't love it.
Not saying you did that with this game (I haven't played WotW yet, unfortunately, so I can't even give an honest opinion here), but it's certainly possible to be inspired by something you feel could be improved upon. It's even possible to be inspired by something on a subconscious level. Again though, I'm not claiming that to be the case here.
Game looks amazing, hope to play it someday!
Now this is dumb. It's either you don't read anything that goes over this matter or hollow knight is the only game you have ever played like this. Like it seems you are flat out refusing to read the linked dev post about this because your argument would even sound more baseless then it already is.
This is the same as being like every game that uses turn based combat ripped of the originator. Or nobody can use a summon system since final fantasy did it.
Oh shit it has a playable bunch of polygons that move and do stuff like things i think its ripping those other 4980 games off. They should all take Ori to court.
/s
/s
Hollow Knight feels like a mixture of Zelda, Symphony, and Dark Souls so I'm not surprised another game inspired by those three draws the comparison
Those are all great places to draw from though, congrats on the incredible reception the game has been getting!
People are being way too defensive about the OPs take and the discussion about it. HK is pretty much the target for these kind of games, ofc other games are gonna use whatever they can from the genre king to implement in their own games.
Thought the HK inspiration was very clear even from earlier trailers.
Thought the HK inspiration was very clear even from earlier trailers.
You make it sound it like a conspiracy in need of an investigation.
Again... lol thread.
ERA: where no Metroidvania existed before Hollow Knight and no 3D action game existed before Dark Souls. Truly the genesis of videogames that originated all ideas like combat, jumping, dodging, and upgrades.
Wow thats the first time I've ever heard Hollow Knight of all things called 'basic as fuck'.
I will never understand the amount of people that act like Hollow Knight invented this kind of stuff.
Fixed that for you.
The game is good on its own. The first one was a masterpiece and this one is too. The only thing they needed to do was stay true to their formula while expanding their scope a little.
as someone who adores both games, seeing the takes is so, SO cringe
No one is forgetting that Demon's Souls and King's Field exists when they talk about games taking inspiration from Dark Souls. All games are of course a combination of borrowed elements with a small handful of new ideas sprinkled on top, but when one is a smash hit and then a few years later you see major elements from it popping up all over it's not hard to see what happened.
The basis of this thread puts Hollow Knight on far too high a pedestal. It's a fine game and all, but it didn't even invent many of the mechanics supposedly plagiarized.
It goes both ways. On ResetEra at least Ori fans shitting on Hollow Knight is far more common than the opposite. Again, I don't understand the rivalry. They're both fantastic.
Games borrow and iterate from other games all the time, this is not only not new, it's not interesting to point out - other than to tell folks that liked Hollow Knight but didn't enjoy the first Ori they may want to take a look at the sequel, I suppose.
I mean, there is a shard called "Thorn" that does the exact same thing as Hollow Knight's similarly named charm. The similarities people are pointing out are not just down to "Metroidvania elements."
Not saying that they have done something wrong or bad, just trying to bring some measured understanding here.
Not saying that they have done something wrong or bad, just trying to bring some measured understanding here.
Lol, cheapend.
What? Let's say they actually did take inspiration or some ideas from Hollow Knight (which they didn't according to Thomas, and I'm sorry if I trust him a liiitle bit more than your impressions), even then all they did was make the game better. Like so much better.
So, is OP going to actually finish his thread or like many inflammatory titles on Era, it was just used to generate controversy? Dude can't even address the actual developer of the game in the thread.
Lol, fair enough. Some of the claims people are making are wild re: Hollow Knight. The dev goes on record saying that they were influenced by a materia system, but he must be lying to save face instead of admitting the real influence.
Is Hollow Knight the only 2D action platformer with good combat ideas? Is it the only game with a nice world design? If Silksong includes an enemy that looks like an owl, is it "clearly influenced" by Ori? Ya'll need to open your minds and consider the notion that devs don't only play the games you like. At the same time, the videogame medium is defined by constant influence among different games, which is very normal and rarely described accurately as a ripoff.
"uncredited" systems. Jesus Christ. Have you played video games?
Of course they redid the combat, it was a common complain about the first game. Ori 2 has just as much platforming as the first, so it's not like they changed the fundamental game design to be like another game. They just made one weak element better. The combat really doesn't feel enough like HK for this to be a "concern" in the first place.
The shard system and the map NPC are definitely the same as Hollow Knight, whether copied or not, but even so, it's 2 things in a sea of mechanics that are very much Ori's own.
Ori has a look and feel all of it's own and calling it a pastiche is selling it short. Calling it a knockoff is downright stupid.
Dawn of sorrow has nearly the same mechanics and that came out years before hollow knight
stop it
No one in this thread wants to address the actual developer lol. His post where he says "no, not really" is immediately followed by people saying its a clear inspiration/rip of HK lol
I haven't played either game but I'm assuming that the thorn thing damages enemies that hit you? If so, that's common in some pretty old RPGs, including tabletop games.
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