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Feb 10, 2018
17,534
Fair enough, but they certainly had great commitment to it this year with plenty of 1st party releases and exclusivity deals.

It is not great commitment, if a console had the sort of investment in games after the 2 years it would be terrible.
It's odd that people seem to give VR a pass for its lacklustre support.
The only games worth a dam on it don't even have a budget of over 20 million.

Real confidence would of been getting suckerpunch to make a VR game with same big budget they got with ghosts.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,170
i think they were in a rough spot with xbox VR this gen... do you accommodate an across the board MS headset or specialize it specifically for console. i think ultimately nextbox will support whatever headset MS releases in 2020 or whatever
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
It is not great commitment, if a console had the sort of investment in games after the 2 years it would be terrible.
It's odd that people seem to give VR a pass for its lacklustre support.
The only games worth a dam on it don't even have a budget of over 20 million.
Objectively, Sony has spent a pretty serious amount of money and resources on VR.
 

Andromeda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,846
They are very confident:
..
  • The VR market can only grow, and growth will likely be massive a couple of years into the generation. Missing out on consoles when VR explodes is going to hurt them.
Exactly. The longer they wait making some serious investment in VR (hardware, APIs and games), the longer it will be for them to enter and adapt into this market.

OK their XB1 is not powerful enough to do VR, but why didn't they invest in PCVR years ago ? don't they have a gaming platform on PC ?

In the close future there won't be silver bullets to magically resolve all their problems. Wireless headsets won't make things easier for them. Because VR will even become more complex with all those new techs like foveated rendering, eye tracking. Finally the VR game development needs specific expertise that is constantly improved, particularly in this recent field.

Objectively, Sony has spent a pretty serious amount of money and resources on VR.
And time.
 

ClarkusDarkus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,725
User Warned: System Wars
Who cares, You'll still get you're yearly Forza game and 4K BC titles, Who needs new and exciting tech when you can just play the same yearly iteration games and sequels.

VR gave me the best gaming experiences not felt since the ps1 era, I'd defo not game as much if VR doesn't get supported.

MS have Halo, The perfect reason to do VR right there.
 

SnatcherHunter

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
13,500
Who cares, You'll still get you're yearly Forza game and 4K BC titles, Who needs new and exciting tech when you can just play the same yearly iteration games and sequels.

VR gave me the best gaming experiences not felt since the ps1 era, I'd defo not game as much if VR doesn't get supported.

MS have Halo, The perfect reason to do VR right there.

WTF.. come on dude
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
Objectively, Sony has spent a pretty serious amount of money and resources on VR.

I'm sure they have, but the lack of big AAA games on PSVR does show a lack of confidence.

While Sony have put out some good games. They are not "all out" like they are with the PS4 which does give the perception that PSVR is in its test bed phase, not what I want out of a product.
 

BocoDragon

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,207
Lack of financial reward.

Microsoft has VR and AR experiences in their company, and the corporate culture fully expects that stuff will come to mass market eventually.

But they chose not to focus on it for this gen's Xbox... and they might not be wrong. One modest VR product in the console market is probably enough to soak up the interested consumers for now. I honestly see their focus on pure TV games to be part of the same healthy pivot away from the multimedia feature creep that sunk them at the beginning of the gen.
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
I'm sure they have, but the lack of big AAA games on PSVR does show a lack of confidence.
Not really, no.

Spending that kind of money on a VR exclusive title now would simply not make financial sense, no matter how much you believe in the future potential of the platform.

That's like saying Disney doesn't believe in its streaming platform because they won't put the next Avengers title up there exclusively.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
Why would you pump millions into a game you will never earn back?

The same reason they do with launch games for a console.
To create excitement for the product and sell them.

Not really, no.

Spending that kind of money on a VR exclusive title now would simply not make financial sense, no matter how much you believe in the future potential of the platform.

That's like saying Disney doesn't believe in its streaming platform because they won't put the next Avengers title up there exclusively.

Then why invest big for consoles in the first 2 years.
Unless your telling Sony don't expect to sell a lot of PSVRs which is a perfect example of lack of confidence.
 

VanDoughnut

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,424
Sony's just in a better position to do it. MS can't.
I think it was a bad look to drop VR support for One X after making a big deal of it, but yeah they might not have a large enough base to support it.

MS is just trying to get its first party support to where it needs to be. VR might be spreading themselves too thin.
I think it'll be foolish if they aren't looking ahead for VR for the nextBox though. Cause Forza Horizon VR would probably rule.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,490
The same reason they do with launch games for a console.
To create excitement for the product and sell them.



Then why invest big for consoles in the first 2 years.
Unless your telling Sony don't expect to sell a lot of PSVRs which is a perfect example of lack of confidence.

If Sony expects to sell 4 million PSVR's and it does. And it creates content for that market. Why would that be a lack of confidence? Not every market will be a 80+ million console market.

Surely not right now.
 

DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
I remember when people touted 3D as the next evolution of TV comparing it to the introduction of colour sets.
Can we not bring 3D into this? Everyone that actually understands VR knows it has world-changing potential. What's the potential of 3D TV, adding more depth cues to movies and games? Very world-changing indeed.
 

DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
It is not great commitment, if a console had the sort of investment in games after the 2 years it would be terrible.
It's odd that people seem to give VR a pass for its lacklustre support.
The only games worth a dam on it don't even have a budget of over 20 million.

Real confidence would of been getting suckerpunch to make a VR game with same big budget they got with ghosts.
People give VR a pass because this isn't like launching a modern console. It's like launching a PC back in the 70s, or a smartphone back in the early 2000s.
 

Fanta

Member
May 27, 2018
508
I just dont see VR being this big thing everyone's expecting it to be, I feel companies make a VR thing once then make AR projects only afterwards.

I think AR might end up having a bigger impact than VR ever will and will always remain as a niche in gaming and instead used primarily for practical jobs like education, surgery, construction and information display.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
If Sony expects to sell 4 million PSVR's and it does. And it creates content for that market. Why would that be a lack of confidence? Not every market will be a 80+ million console market.

Surely not right now.

I get what your saying and its a valid opinion.
But on the contrary if Sony invested in AAA games for PSVR maybe they would sell 25million.
I get why Sony are treating PSVR the way they are doing I just think the 1 foot in approach is not the best, and a "go big or go home" approach would be better especially if Sony are serious about it being a long term platform.
 

DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
I just dont see VR being this big thing everyone's expecting it to be, I feel companies make a VR thing once then make AR projects only afterwards.

I think AR might end up having a bigger impact than VR ever will and will always remain as a niche in gaming and instead used primarily for practical jobs like education, surgery, construction and information display.
There's no chance of your scenario playing out, because there are some seriously big areas that AR cannot do, or cannot do nearly as well as VR.

VR will excel more at socialization, telepresence, architecture design, treating phobias, training, entertainment, and self-expression.
There is also plenty of overlap in things like education, screen simulation, exercise and lifestyle.

The end result is they merge anyway. If AR makes it big first, VR makes it big as well. That's how it will go down.
 

element

Member
Oct 27, 2017
920
Microsoft from a software company is making some large gains in AR/VR with Hololens, but they have been totally focused on B2B business since it is clear that consumers aren't ready or willing to support the devices.

Where money is being invested in VR in 2019:
Training/Education
Virtual Office/Meetings
PreViz/Architectural

Where money has been reduced in VR in 2019:
Incremental Hardware Updates
Entertainment (Games, Interactive)
 
Nov 30, 2017
1,563
How do you filter batshit crazy comments before reading them and faceaplming?
Microsoft from a software company is making some large gains in AR/VR with Hololens, but they have been totally focused on B2B business since it is clear that consumers aren't ready or willing to support the devices.

Where money is being invested in VR in 2019:
Training/Education
Virtual Office/Meetings
PreViz/Architectural

Where money has been reduced in VR in 2019:
Incremental Hardware Updates
Entertainment (Games, Interactive)
Reduced? Ouch.
 

Godzilla24

Member
Nov 12, 2017
3,371
It is not great commitment, if a console had the sort of investment in games after the 2 years it would be terrible.
It's odd that people seem to give VR a pass for its lacklustre support.
The only games worth a dam on it don't even have a budget of over 20 million.

Real confidence would of been getting suckerpunch to make a VR game with same big budget they got with ghosts.
It is not great commitment, if a console had the sort of investment in games after the 2 years it would be terrible.
It's odd that people seem to give VR a pass for its lacklustre support.
The only games worth a dam on it don't even have a budget of over 20 million.

Real confidence would of been getting suckerpunch to make a VR game with same big budget they got with ghosts.
Exactly. Well said.
 

EBomb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
464
VR's biggest strength, right now, is its greatest weakness. Total immersion into a VR world is great, being totally detached from the real world severely limits the market though. I cant use my Oculus and hear my Baby cry if she wakes up, I cant casually interact with my wife and family, and passing it back and forth isnt awesome as a social experience. I enjoy VR, but in small doses and in specific situations, which limits my willingness to invest more going forward.

MS doesnt need to invest in this in the console space, because I feel we are still years away from solving these issues. AR helps, but is harder to implement.
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,116
Chesire, UK
If VR takes off, MS can be on that train in a hot minute, there are plenty of open standards and knowledge to take advantage of.

As is, there is no real reason to be on the VR train. It shows no signs of being the next big thing.
 

xabbott

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,065
Florida
Who cares, You'll still get you're yearly Forza game and 4K BC titles, Who needs new and exciting tech when you can just play the same yearly iteration games and sequels.

VR gave me the best gaming experiences not felt since the ps1 era, I'd defo not game as much if VR doesn't get supported.

MS have Halo, The perfect reason to do VR right there.

They already did that though, it's free too. :P They even sell VR games with xbox achievements. If you want to see em they're all here. I think you read way more into a twitter exchange though like Mike was announcing Microsoft's entire VR position.
 

itchi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,287
I guess VR could still come to the X if they are porting their mixed reality platform on Xbox Next. It would be stupid not to.
 

Godzilla24

Member
Nov 12, 2017
3,371
Why would you pump millions into a game you will never earn back?
Because VR is exploding or will explode any minute now. That's what I keep hearing anyways. Sony can speed things along if that's the case. After last of us 2 have naughty dog put all their resources into making a killer PSVR game. Someone should make a thread asking if Sony should pursue this route. Interested to hear the responses. It would be risky venture for sure. But great risk comes great rewards.
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
Uh....it's exactly the same. Like, could not be more the same.

The PlayStation execs were making a joke at the expense of a competitors "weakness" on social media.

The Xbox exec was making a joke at th expense of a competitors "weakness" on social media.

Yeah they're exactly the same.

Making fun of someone for liking another console like that Xbox guy was doing seems petty and childish to me, as is dismissing VR because your chosen console developer is currently not offering it on your machine.

Making fun of Microsofts universally hated approach to DRM and scoring one of the easiest and long lasting wins in the industry by basically doing what consumers wanted was PR perfection.
 

element

Member
Oct 27, 2017
920
Because VR is exploding or will explode any minute now. That's what I keep hearing anyways.
From who and where? VR bubbe hasn't happened, but everyone in the market has retargeted for 2019 as consumer adoption and retail interest continues to be very low.

As I said above, most investment in VR is moving to more B2B focused.
 

DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
From who and where? VR bubbe hasn't happened, but everyone in the market has retargeted for 2019 as consumer adoption and retail interest continues to be very low.

As I said above, most investment in VR is moving to more B2B focused.
2019 has only been regarded as a great year of growth for VR. No one is expecting mass adoption for at least 5 years.
 

Godzilla24

Member
Nov 12, 2017
3,371
From who and where? VR bubbe hasn't happened, but everyone in the market has retargeted for 2019 as consumer adoption and retail interest continues to be very low.

As I said above, most investment in VR is moving to more B2B focused.
I agree with you. I was being flippant. VR is niche and no where near mainstream. I kinda wonder where or how people are believing that VR will be exploding anytime soon. From what I read its actually slowing down in sales. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
 

element

Member
Oct 27, 2017
920
2019 has only been regarded as a great year of growth for VR. No one is expecting mass adoption for at least 5 years.
Growth in B2B, not in consumer focused products.

Trying to get money to do entertainment VR projects is extremely challenging right now. There just isn't a revenue model that works for developers or investors. Additionally, companies like Sony, Oculus and HTC aren't subsidizing development costs as much as they were the previous two years.
 

DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
I agree with you. I was being flippant. VR is niche and no where near mainstream. I kinda wonder where or how people are believing that VR will be exploding anytime soon. From what I read its actually slowing down in sales. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
The only slow down is in mobile VR which is exactly as planned. Mobile VR is a dead-end that was meant to simply jumpstart VR. Standalone VR has now taken the place of mobile.

High-end VR sales on PC have doubled their growth on Steam in 2018: https://uploadvr.com/vr-steam-grew-2018/
 

DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
Growth in B2B, not in consumer focused products.

Trying to get money to do entertainment VR projects is extremely challenging right now. There just isn't a revenue model that works for developers or investors. Additionally, companies like Sony, Oculus and HTC aren't subsidizing development costs as much as they were the previous two years.
Sony absolutely are, since they've been funding bigger games, and plan to do more. Oculus have less games in the pipeline, but equal investment as all of that is going into fewer, but bigger games, at the AAA scale. HTC is, well they're HTC.
 

element

Member
Oct 27, 2017
920
Sony absolutely are, since they've been funding bigger games, and plan to do more. Oculus have less games in the pipeline, but equal investment as all of that is going into fewer, but bigger games, at the AAA scale. HTC is, well they're HTC.
What evidence do you have that Sony is investing MORE? Funding what? Funding full scale development? Funding in visibility and placement?

How much money do you think Sony invested in Moss?

Go try to get funding for a VR game right now. There just isn't a lot of interest.

Speaking with VR devs, they are actually moving away from VR as there is just zero way to make money. It is moving to 100% work for hire with very little chance of a profit to keep your company open, so you are always seeking new work just to stay afloat.
 

Godzilla24

Member
Nov 12, 2017
3,371
The only slow down is in mobile VR which is exactly as planned. Mobile VR is a dead-end that was meant to simply jumpstart VR. Standalone VR has now taken the place of mobile.

High-end VR sales on PC have doubled their growth on Steam in 2018: https://uploadvr.com/vr-steam-grew-2018/
Don't get your news from uploadvr. They is inherent conflict of interest as their survival depends on VR succeeding. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/vr-ar-quarterly-sales-down,37335.html
https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/274518-vr-sales-are-tanking-but-is-the-market-in-a-tailspin
 

Plasma

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,637
I agree with you. I was being flippant. VR is niche and no where near mainstream. I kinda wonder where or how people are believing that VR will be exploding anytime soon. From what I read its actually slowing down in sales. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
Number of people on Steam with VR headsets have more than doubled in the last year so I don't think that's true.

https://www.pcgamer.com/steam-users-with-pc-vr-headsets-more-than-doubled-in-number-last-year/
 

Fafalada

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,066
The only games worth a dam on it don't even have a budget of over 20 million.
There have been 0 20M budget games on mobiles, and that doesn't stop the world shouting about it 'being the future' for a full decade now.

But on the contrary if Sony invested in AAA games for PSVR maybe they would sell 25million.
They launched into a climate where the 2 other major providers had less units on the market than they sold in first 24 hours. And none of them expected 25M ceiling as a realistic target for 1st gen headsets, regardless of the size of investment behind it.
 

DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
What evidence do you have that Sony is investing MORE? Funding what? Funding full scale development? Funding in visibility and placement?

How much money do you think Sony invested in Moss?

Go try to get funding for a VR game right now. There just isn't a lot of interest.

Speaking with VR devs, they are actually moving away from VR as there is just zero way to make money. It is moving to 100% work for hire with very little chance of a profit to keep your company open, so you are always seeking new work just to stay afloat.
Both. The number of 1st party PSVR games and the budget of these games has exceeded both 2016/2017. As for visibility and placement: https://www.reddit.com/r/PSVR/comments/9afajm/if_you_ever_think_that_sony_is_abandoning_vr_read/

There are other impressions. Sony has had large PSVR presence at certain events in 2018.
 

DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
UploadVR doesn't matter here at all. They are reporting on public statistics which everyone can see. It's all factual.

Mobile VR was always meant to slow down as standalone takes it place. Oculus Go has been exceeding sales expectations FYI.
 

ThisIsBlitz21

Member
Oct 22, 2018
4,662
"lack of technical foresight"?
Lol, gimme a break.
It's clear as day that MS wanted VR technology to cook up more before they jump in, a wise choice just incase VR ends up floundering.
 

Expy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,865
Microsoft was supposed to support it on Xbox One X, but backpedalled and didn't say anything about it.