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Do you consider Metroidvania a genre?

  • Yes

    Votes: 322 91.5%
  • No

    Votes: 24 6.8%
  • I can't tell

    Votes: 6 1.7%

  • Total voters
    352

Squid Icarus

Member
Jul 11, 2019
340
I saw people referring to it as a genre and even game sites using it on the same level as "first person shooter" or "RPG".

But, personally, I think of it more as a certain kind of game design - like, Ori is first and foremost a platformer in my eyes that's structured as a Metroidvania. It would also be possible to structure an FPS like a Metroidvania (look at Metroid Prime), but then what would these game sites call it?

What's your take? Are "genres" useless anyway? Discuss.
 

Calamari41

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,097
I see it more as an adjective to a genre. You can have Metroidvania gameplay in many completely different genres.
 

Jonathan Lanza

"I've made a Gigantic mistake"
Member
Feb 8, 2019
6,790
Try not to get too hung up genre's because the truth is a game can encompass multiple aspects and pigeon holing them into a single genre can often be a bad idea.
 
OP
OP
Squid Icarus

Squid Icarus

Member
Jul 11, 2019
340
I see it more as an adjective to a genre. You can have Metroidvania gameplay in many completely different genres.
I'd agree 100% if not for one thing: Is there actually something like "Metroidvania gameplay"? As in: Isn't Metroidvania an adjective that is completely separated from actual gamepay because it's more tied to level design and progression?
 

Shiryu

Member
Sep 6, 2019
237
It's Just a stupid name to refer to SOTN clones, most of these clones doesn't resemble metroid in the first place.

They are 2D action RPG cloning SOTN design.
 

Calamari41

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,097
I'd agree 100% if not for one thing: Is there actually something like "Metroidvania gameplay"? As in: Isn't Metroidvania an adjective that is completely separated from actual gamepay because it's more tied to level design and progression?

You're definitely right, I should have said "design" or "structure" instead of "gameplay." That's how I meant it.
 

dude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,634
Tel Aviv
But, personally, I think of it more as a certain kind of game design - like, Ori is first and foremost a platformer in my eyes that's structured as a Metroidvania. It would also be possible to structure an FPS like a Metroidvania (look at Metroid Prime), but then what would these game sites call it?
Yeah, isn't that what a genre is...?

I think people should start thinking about game genres more similarly to the way we think about music genres. They're this ever evolving form that is constantly merging and seperating - So just like you can have lo-fi dream pop rap you can have a first person RPG metroidvania.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
I see it more as an adjective to a genre. You can have Metroidvania gameplay in many completely different genres.
This, pretty much. 'Metroidvania' typically conjures up ideas of how the world is unlocked and explored through backtracking with new abilities, but beyond that, some games lean far heavier on platforming, some on melee combat, and some on shooting. Some use rpg mechanics for growth, some restrict it to finding upgrades.

In the same way, I've viewed 'FPS' as a less and less descriptive genre name as 'how we view the world and what we use to kill stuff' was great for Doom as 2D games gave way to 3D, but these days there's plenty of first-person games that use firearms for much of the combat but also involve tons of exploration, rpg elements etc. Same goes for 'what is an RPG' that we discuss endlessly on here, whether people lean towards aping actual tabletop games or whether it's a multitude of computer game rough approximations of them, and whether dividing into 'action' and 'real time combat' is more useful than other descriptives.

Ultimately there's so many games now and the more interesting ones take influences from all over the place, making strict genre definitions a bit, well, restrictive for stuff that isn't a homage to when many of these genre templates were being laid out 20+ years ago. Useful as a basic shorthand for discussion and recommendations though, just not so much for hammering everything into boxes they only kinda vaguely fit in.
 
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Bradford

terminus est
Member
Aug 12, 2018
5,423
Genres are just shorthand for how certain game designs coalesce into a recognizable, repeated form and collection of ideas.

So yeah, it's a genre.
 

Ojli

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,652
Sweden
Yes, it's a genre even if a lot of games don't even resemble the namesake. Personally, the term only applies to 2D games, if it goes 3D it's more often a Prime-like to me
 

correojon

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,410
It's Just a stupid name to refer to SOTN clones, most of these clones doesn't resemble metroid in the first place.

They are 2D action RPG cloning SOTN design.
I don't think this is correct, I've always seen the core of Metroidvania games as coming purely from Metroid-concepts (exploration, backtracking, non-linear progression blocked by power-ups, mobility upgrades...) while the "vania" part added mostly the RPG components and maybe some more ellaborate combat mechanics. Thus, I think that there aren't any Metroidvanias that don't inherit from Metroid, while there are many that inherit from both. For example, Hollow Knight or Gato Roboto have little resemblance to SoTN but show their Metroid roots really prominently.
 

Spring-Loaded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,904
Yes, and people still salty about them being called that nearly 25 years later should probably move on. They lost the messaging battle.
Doesn't sound like OP is saying this at all, and is instead asking whether "Metroidvania" is a genre the same way "platformer" and "FPS" are in that they describe the gameplay itself. They're not saying "Metroidvania" should be a different term

I think game genres can be descriptions of moment-to-moment gameplay (Deathloop is an FPS) or of their overall structure (Deathloop is an immersive sim).

There's nothing wrong with some games needing to be described with both their "gameplay" genre and their "structure" genre.
 

Giever

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,756
The world is a messy place that we categorize for convenience and comfort. Metroidvania covers a vaguely ambiguous breadth of certain sorts of games, and is useful to that end, and yes it is a genre.
 

Kyubajin

Member
Feb 22, 2019
1,095
It's like "Soulslike" to me, more than a genre it evokes a certain style and dynamics to the game it's applied to.
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,465
It's Just a stupid name to refer to SOTN clones, most of these clones doesn't resemble metroid in the first place.

They are 2D action RPG cloning SOTN design.

This is wrong. SOTN isn't even the first Metroidvania in the series. And so many games in the genre play nothing like SOTN and instead lean more into Metroid style exploration/gameplay.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Yes, it's a genre even if a lot of games don't even resemble the namesake. Personally, the term only applies to 2D games, if it goes 3D it's more often a Prime-like to me
I tend to mostly think it applies to 2D games too, even though the game design of gates, exploration and backtracking obviously works for 3D games too. There's something about the gridlike 2D maps that is key to the genre for me, maybe the sense of order in the way the world unlocks and being able to predict where a shortcut might be. A bit like gridder dungeon crawls like Etrian Odyssey, where after a while you get a sense that there is likely a secret door nearby just because it would link the world up neatly. I realise this is likely a personal thing though.
 

Zacmortar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,383
yes but gaming enthusiasts hate it for petty reasons because theyre obsessed with nitpicking
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,624
Yes.

Ultimately despite people not liking the name, it's not going anywhere, and generally people know exactly what type of game to expect when you say: "Metroidvania"
 

XaosWolf

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,940
Nintendo themselves used the term Metroidvania on their weird everchanging eShop sections on the 3DS.

My understanding is that the genre is made up of the following parts:
  • The Metroid part is an interconnected world with progress gated by powerup items.
  • The Castlevania part is the RPG-lite systems (levelling up, equipment, money, etc)
In the case of Metroid Prime: its a Metroid game only as there are none of the RPG mechanics present in the modern Castlevania titles.
Oh and the perspective of the game doesn't matter for Metroidvanias. I wish we had more devs take a crack at 3D ones though.
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
yes but gaming enthusiasts hate it for petty reasons because theyre obsessed with nitpicking

I think, as a couple posts in here already show, it's more about showing their Gamer Cred. They know what the real Metroid games are, jabronis. The plebs couldn't possibly understand.
 

JangleLuke

Member
Oct 4, 2018
1,604
I consider it more of a moniker, but I'm not too fussed about its (if you want to be anal, flawed) use.
 

Jonathan Lanza

"I've made a Gigantic mistake"
Member
Feb 8, 2019
6,790
the same can be said of books and movies and yet...
I mean yeah, try not to get too hung up on those too. You don't want to discredit or come to unfair expectations of something based on if it does or doesn't fit its perceived genre. You ultimately want to judge something based on what it is and not based on what genre it is and if it does or doesn't fail to meet the genre conventions of said genre.
 

Mirage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,558
Metroidvania gives you a more clear idea of how a game will be than most genres.
 

BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,918
CT
Nintendo themselves used the term Metroidvania on their weird everchanging eShop sections on the 3DS.

My understanding is that the genre is made up of the following parts:
  • The Metroid part is an interconnected world with progress gated by powerup items.
  • The Castlevania part is the RPG-lite systems (levelling up, equipment, money, etc)
In the case of Metroid Prime: its a Metroid game only as there are none of the RPG mechanics present in the modern Castlevania titles.
Oh and the perspective of the game doesn't matter for Metroidvanias. I wish we had more devs take a crack at 3D ones though.

RPG elements aren't required for Metroidvanias.
 

Sage

Member
Oct 27, 2017
680
Japan
Metroid Prime isn't an FPS, it's an FPA. Nintendo has always been very clear about that.
Right. Just like Namco are clear that Tales of Zestiria's genre isn't RPG, it's 'Passion that Illuminates the World RPG.'
Just because you made the game doesn't let you decide what genre it is in and make up something new for slight deviances. It's just an FPS with some exploration elements, same as Half Life or something.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,483
Games can have radically different gameplay, systems, and degrees of role playing but be bundled under the term RPG. They can be turn-based, real-time, isometric, third person, first person, single character, party-based, shooters, or melee based and overlap with other genres. But they're still RPGs. Of course metroidvania is a genre and the term succinctly describes a common set of traits better than any of the alternatives I've seen proposed.
 
Jun 18, 2018
1,100
I saw people referring to it as a genre and even game sites using it on the same level as "first person shooter" or "RPG".

But, personally, I think of it more as a certain kind of game design - like, Ori is first and foremost a platformer in my eyes that's structured as a Metroidvania. It would also be possible to structure an FPS like a Metroidvania (look at Metroid Prime), but then what would these game sites call it?

What's your take? Are "genres" useless anyway? Discuss.

The problem is that we don't have a consistent way of defining genres.

Sometimes it's perspective driven (first, third person, horizontal / vertical scrolling), sometimes it's gameplay drive (shooting, racing, walking-sim, strategy), sometimes it's narrative, tone and / or setting driven (horror, fantasy, etc)), then you have progress (roguelike). Oh, and these are frequently combined.

Metroidvania at the very least describes a strong progression system, suggests action and platforming and infers perspective. So, unless the above gets cleared up in some way, it counts.
 

XaosWolf

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,940
RPG elements aren't required for Metroidvanias.
RPG elements is a very broad term. If we're calling non-Castlevania games Metroidvania then Castlevania needs to bring something to the table that isn't already covered by Metroid.

EDIT: Looking at "Metroidvania" tag on Steam is a god damn mess. Bloodstained: Curse of the Moon 2 is marked as Metroidvania - a game specifically made in the vein of classic Castlevania.
 
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Deleted member 9479

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,953
I mean yeah, try not to get too hung up on those too. You don't want to discredit or come to unfair expectations of something based on if it does or doesn't fit its perceived genre. You ultimately want to judge something based on what it is and not based on what genre it is and if it does or doesn't fail to meet the genre conventions of said genre.

You come to everything with expectations tho. In a world filled with more choices than time to explore, things like genre help us make choices in what to pursue and how we spend limited resources (both time and money).

that's not to say you should close yourself off to things that are outside of preferred genres. That's like a child who only eats cereal becasue they've only ever eaten cereal and never tried a ham sandwich. But that's another conversation entirely from "is this thing people use as a genre actually a genre."
 

Jonathan Lanza

"I've made a Gigantic mistake"
Member
Feb 8, 2019
6,790
You come to everything with expectations tho. In a world filled with more choices than time to explore, things like genre help us make choices on how we make those choices in what to pursue.

that's not to say you should close yourself off to things that are outside of preferred genres. That's like a child who only eats cereal becasue they've only ever eaten cereal and never tried a ham sandwich. But that's another conversation entirely from "is this thing people use as a genre actually a genre."
Sure, but if you expected a game to do something and it does something else, that's not really a bad thing. It depends on what it is and it should be judged as so.
 

Bait02

Member
Jan 5, 2019
645
It's a genre de-facto since it represents a very specific and popular style in terms of gameplay, game world layout and game progression.

Although I recognize it, I think it's a quite narrow genre definition. I prefer broader definitions since they open up more varied and original possibilities.
 

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,467
I think metroidvania is probably a genre reserved for titles that directly mimic the structure of Metroid, Castlevania or something in between. I don't think RPG elements are a requirement, so in that sense I think that metroid-like is probably more fitting for many of them, but metroidvania just allows the term to cover a wider scope of games, rather than having two terms (metroid-like and castlevania-like).

As for using metroidvania as an adjective, I don't think that actually has a lot of value. I think some degree of 'metroidvania' design in open world games is almost a given today. A large number of games are driven by ability acquisition, with players motivated to keep playing by the idea that they're progressing, and growing stronger by playing. Therefore, one of the means in which you make the player feel like that progression is worthwhile, is to hint towards it earlier on in the game. You see it in everything from the Batman Arkham, and God of War games to Spyro Reignited and Pokemon.

I don't think it would really help anyone understand what Spyro 2 or 3 is doing if I were to use the term metroidvania, or Pokemon for that matter. I think we have better terms for describing that element of the design that more people will understand.

Spyro 2 is a 3D platformer where you collect gems and orbs in order to progress through levels and learn new abilities.
Spyro 2 is a 3D platformer where you progress through a series of levels with metroidvania elements.

I think just saying that you learn new abilities fine. The player can presume that the abilities are used for something valuable, such exploring more levels, because that's the predominant nature of the game. Describing it as having metroidvania elements wouldn't help many people understand what's going on, because a lot of people aren't familiar with the term, and it's quite a minor part of the game, really.

I think for game designers, for discussions on forums on ERA and whatnot, metroidvania works fine as an adjective as it describes a specific type of gameplay loop where the acquisition of abilities is allowing players to probe deeper and deeper into the world. In that sense it's like a game design pattern, or a term that encompasses a specific set of game design patterns that might help people who are well versed with game design nomenclature understand the type of design that your game is trying to convey.

But ultimately if I used the term with my mum, or even my sister (who both actively play games), they wouldn't have a clue what I was talking about. I'd describe Ori and the Blind Forest to them as a 2D platformer and metroidvania, but I would never use the term as an adjective to describe any gameplay elements with them, just because it doesn't mean anything.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,622
Yeah, isn't that what a genre is...?

I think people should start thinking about game genres more similarly to the way we think about music genres. They're this ever evolving form that is constantly merging and seperating - So just like you can have lo-fi dream pop rap you can have a first person RPG metroidvania.
The game community is very weird and strict about genres. Like no one has problems with music growing and evolving genre labels as times and styles change, nor with labeling a movie a sci-fi action comedy or a Gothic romance

But god forbid you start trying to describe games with mixed genres or propose new genre based on modern trends or not abide by extremely strict genre molds
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,499
I do think when people talk about Metroidvania, they talk more about elements of game design rather than a genre. But it's a term that can be applied as a genre itself.

It would also be possible to structure an FPS like a Metroidvania (look at Metroid Prime), but then what would these game sites call it?
First-Person Adventure?
Pretty sure the technical term is scrollorama.
For real? Never heard about this.