Conflicted=not even trying to make an effort. Even his "obi wan has trained you well" line sounds incredibly fake and like he's going through the motions out of obligation.
The force gives you enough premonition to block and even send blaster shots back.
I always assumed that Vader wasn't really trying, and that it was more about Luke's personal growth and connection to the Force anyway.
Jedi are monks not trained soldiers, it's like asking why a Shaolin monk uses his fists to fight rather than a gun. Being the most effective at killing someone isn't the point.I always thought it was kind of odd that they'd limit themselves to lightsabers only most of the time. It's like
You know, use blasters when enemies are far away and lightsabers when they're not. It's not like they're trying to reach out the cockpit with a lightsaber when they're dog fighting in spaceships, after all.
Can't block Force lightning if you've foolishly thrown away your lightsaber in a gesture of defiance.
you'd think yoda or obi-wan would have brought that up at some point tbh
Yeah, I think there's some of that, though Luke does legit overpower him when he cuts off Vader's hand. If you watch Rebels, it'll show that Vader equally not trying all that hard is more than enough to fend off a full assault from Ahsoka.
I always thought it was kind of odd that they'd limit themselves to lightsabers only most of the time. It's like
You know, use blasters when enemies are far away and lightsabers when they're not. It's not like they're trying to reach out the cockpit with a lightsaber when they're dog fighting in spaceships, after all.
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Not making an effort that would easily end someone who has way less experience=/=well guess imma just literally die. During the fight, Vader doesn't do anything remotely as aggressive as when he drops the pretense in ESB:
He didn't rise to jedi by fighting Vader, that's the entire point. Being the badass who wins the sword fight is portrayed as the wrong thing to do, from Vader's own reluctance to the imagery itself. This is what matters, this is the moment that makes Luke a jedi:
"Do not underestimate the power of the Emperor, or suffer your father's fate you will." - deffo much more useful advice
But they never had a reason to use it. Yoda was chilling at a swamp and Palpatine was content to sit on his throne before Vader's (foreseeable) betrayal happened. Vader's the only one to engage in lightsaber fights but Episode 3 tried really hard to explain away Vader's decreased mobility with his wounds & the suit. Plus Vader never wanted to kill Luke in either movie because he wanted to recruit/save his son (the only time he tried killing him in the movies was the original Death Star battle but Han saved Luke with the power of convenient timing)
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Not making an effort that would easily end someone who has way less experience=/=well guess imma just literally die. h
He didn't rise to jedi by fighting Vader, that's the entire point. Being the badass who wins the sword fight is portrayed as the wrong thing to do, from Vader's own reluctance to the imagery itself. This is what matters, this is the moment that makes Luke a jedi:
"I fought Palpatine and got my ass beat. You aint up to this challenge just yet. Might want to give it a few years. hmmm"
Yeah, I always interpreted it as Luke taking Vader by surprise with his ferocity, and Vader being too off-balance to defend himself.
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Not making an effort that would easily end someone who has way less experience=/=well guess imma just literally die. During the fight, Vader doesn't do anything as remotely as aggressive as when he drops the pretense in ESB:
He doesn't want this. He doesn't wanna see Luke become a puppet of the emperor. He doesn't know what to do. So he goes through the motions, fulfills his role as a puppet. Says lines like "Obi-wan has trained you well" as he lets himself get kicked down stairs. Luke's potential is what matted to the emperor. He never at any point in the OT was Vader tier.
He didn't rise to jedi by fighting Vader, that's the entire point. Being the badass who wins the sword fight is portrayed as the wrong thing to do, from Vader's own reluctance to the imagery itself. This is what matters, this is the moment that makes Luke a jedi:
Luke is an interesting protagonist because unlike so many in media, getting the sword, being a badass and straightforwardly killing the bad guy isn't how he succeeds.
Not really a take if it's a largely agreed on intentional part of the film. Like how else do you interpret the tone of this line, or even the body language?
I never really thought about it, but there is definitely a rawness to those battles. Even the throne room fight feels pretty brutal, and it's the most prequel-esque one, IMO.
Yeah, the lightsaber had been referred to as a "Jedi weapon" in the original trilogy both by Obi-Wan and Palpatine (derisively, in his case), so it makes sense that Yoda would have one, but Palpatine having one is strange.
I don't think he always viewed as a Jedi's weapon but through the years he probably stopped using one and just relying on dark side powers.
Yes he is. At least compared to the people he's up against.
Where it gets complicated is the part where Luke only beats Vader because Vader was conflicted and not giving it his all. If Vader wanted to kill Luke at any point, he would've, quite easily. Even after training with Yoda, this could've been the end result if Vader wasn't playing him.
This brings up an interesting point. If Palpatine is an example of an evil Force user, and makes lightsabers out to be the weapon of exclusively Jedi and not Force users in general, then lightsaber dueling wouldn't really be a thing, because Jedi would never fight someone who also had a lightsaber. Now, decades of EU stuff and eventually the prequels would establish the Sith as being the evil version of Jedi and having their own lightsabers, but was that always the plan?
