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Is Joe Montana better than Tom Brady?

Who is better

  • Montana

    Votes: 136 23.1%

  • Brady

    Votes: 452 76.9%
  • Total voters
    588
NinjaScooter

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
54,062
Ra said:
No one ever really answers what Brady DOES better than Montana, in on the field talent.
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I mean nobody ever really answers what Montana does better than Brady either (the OP certainly doesn't. Dropping some YouTube highlight video doesn't really address anything). It's how these arguments go. The reality is that there is no point to making these kinds of comparisons, nobody has any real interest in having a discussion and instead people are just stubbornly dug in on an argument that has no real wrong or right answer.
 
msdstc

msdstc

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,872
krae_man said:
So by that logic, Cam Newton is better than Brady?

I can name some things if you wish though

-Training
-Diet
-Practice
-Studying game film
-Getting rid of the ball to avoid being hit
-Reading defenses
-Going through progressions quickly

Arm Strength is but a fraction of what is needed to be a great quarterback.
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The arm strength thing is such a weird misconception. Tom could absolutely fire the ball in there. He was still firing rockets this year at 44. Pretty confident Tom had better arm strength than Montana.
 
Ra

Ra

Rap Genius
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
12,196
Dark Space
NinjaScooter said:
I mean nobody ever really answers what Montana does better than Brady either (the OP certainly doesn't. Dropping some YouTube highlight video doesn't really address anything). It's how these arguments go. The reality is that there is no point to making these kinds of comparisons, nobody has any real interest in having a discussion and instead people are just stubbornly dug in on an argument that has no real wrong or right answer.
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I'm not even saying Montana was better. I rarely like comparing players from different eras. I just hate "he has more wins" being used as a cudgel like it's the checkmate that shuts down best player discussions at the onset.

I honestly hate ranking QBs at all once you hit a certain skill level. It's not a sport like soccer or basketball where a single QB can have the creative genius that takes over a game. QBs are like, "who executed better?" It's impossible to say as a benchmark when other facets of the team can lose the game for them. Did Joe or Tom ever lose a big Playoff run off of their arm?
 
Soapbox Killer

Soapbox Killer

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,048
It's closer than anyone cares to admit because of the rings. Winning is the the greatest makeup.


There are OGs of Football that will tell you that Montana and Marino were better at the QB position but they didn't have the cast around them. I guess it all depends. Would Montana have 7 rings had he played on the same teams as Brady, possibly?
 
Netherscourge

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,894
Montana didn't have the tuck rule and even though he had Jerry Rice, his receivers could get blasted by defenders right after a catch.

Brady was great, but a lot of newer NFL rules for QBs and receivers definitely helped him during his career.
 
SwampBastard

SwampBastard

The Fallen
Nov 1, 2017
10,978
There are lots of QBs better than Brady. Montana is definitely one of them.

Brady is the most overrated athlete in the history of professional sports.
 

Deleted member 49482

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 8, 2018
3,302
This was a good debate 2-3 Brady Superbowls ago, but now it's not an argument that can be legitimately entertained. Brady has just blown past everyone in the second-half of his career.
 
Juryvicious

Juryvicious

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,828
My heart even until just a few years ago was Montana, I am old enough to have witnessed his greatness in the 80's, in the big games. And I still love the dude. It was magical. However, by every single metric, either regular season, post season, Super Bowl, awards, Tom Brady has outperformed and out-succeeded Joe Montana individually, and team wise.

People will bring up the Patriot's overall team success, and that is undeniable. From coaching, to special teams to o-line to defense to yada yada yada. All of it.

What is RARELY discussed about those 80's 49ers teams is just how good they were as a team on both sides of the ball as well. Their o-line, their special teams, coaching, having an all-timer in Steve Young back, motivate, sparingly replace Joe when he played awful. The team was fucking stacked, and in all honesty, the 49ers should have won a few more Super Bowls but lost in upsets, that's just how good they were.

Like the Patriot's the 49ers Head coach was cut-fucking-throat, and placed team success over player, individual success. Every single time. And set themselves up for success year after year because of it.

Before Joe Montana it was Terry Bradshaw due to regular and post season success, Joe rightfully took the mantle due to his individual and teams results, and now Brady has taken the mantle due to his individual and team success. It's that simple.

The bar keeps getting higher and higher, and I don't see anyone realistically taking that mantle away from Brady, but many/most thought the same when it came to Bradshaw then Montana, so who knows.
 
Replicant

Replicant

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,380
MN
Xyer said:
I'm a massive Brady hater and I don't know how you can even compare him to Brady. 7 rings vs 4 rings. It's not even close.
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Brady played many more seasons in an era where qb's didn't have the type of protection they do now. It's nothing to take away from Brady, but super bowl's are more than just qb
 
Juryvicious

Juryvicious

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,828
Replicant said:
Brady played many more seasons in an era where qb's didn't have the type of protection they do now. It's nothing to take away from Brady, but super bowl's are more than just qb
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Playing longer should never be seen as a negative, especially when you play at a high level like Brady has done for his career. Simply put, Brady put up a better resume and when comparing players across eras that's all you have to go on.

Also, the 80's 49ers were far, far more than just Montana, they were just as loaded, and perhaps even moreso talent wise IMO.
 
Tuorom

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,888
Ra said:
No one ever really answers what Brady DOES better than Montana, in on the field talent.
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Talent?
Like touchdowns? Running yards? Completion %? Passing yards? Some intangible quality you can't define?

What does that mean? Can you define your terms pls. People always say things like well ______ has more talent....and what is that? Did it get him to 7 superbowl wins? No? Did it make him passing TD leader? No? Did this talent give him top pass completions???? Passing yards? Surely it takes talent to reach the top of the NFL leaderboard? Surely it takes talent to be among the best players every year? To be that consistent surely takes talent, right?
 
PanSexual_Peacock

PanSexual_Peacock

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,693
Juryvicious said:
Playing longer should never be seen as a negative, especially when you play at a high level like Brady has done for his career. Simply put, Brady put up a better resume and when comparing players across eras that's all you have to go on.

Also, the 80's 49ers were far, far more than just Montana, they were just as loaded, and perhaps even moreso talent wise IMO.
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I agree. There were way more HoF on those 49ers teams than the Patriots had and they stayed together a lot longer.
 

THE210

Member
Nov 30, 2017
1,542
Joe never lost a super bowl. He was injured a bunch and didn't benefit from the Luck that Brady had. The Pats should have lost a couple of bowls but coaching incompetence saved them. The Seahawks and the Falcons really blew those games.
 
Ra

Ra

Rap Genius
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
12,196
Dark Space
Tuorom said:
Talent?
Like touchdowns? Running yards? Completion %? Passing yards? Some intangible quality you can't define?

What does that mean? Can you define your terms pls. People always say things like well ______ has more talent....and what is that? Did it get him to 7 superbowl wins? No? Did it make him passing TD leader? No? Did this talent give him top pass completions???? Passing yards? Surely it takes talent to reach the top of the NFL leaderboard? Surely it takes talent to be among the best players every year? To be that consistent surely takes talent, right?
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You are literally misreading what I said and jumping to the conclusion I said Montana had more talent. Read all of my posts in the thread before you jump off the cliff.

The histrionics are unnecessary. I was only commenting on people saying "he has more wins" as their only argument.
 
ViperVisor

ViperVisor

Member
Oct 29, 2017
860
The 49ers passing game was ahead of it's time in efficiency compared to what Brady did.

Dudes. When Montana was early in his career he was taking the snap and holding the FGs. It's wild watching old games from the 80s.
 
0ptimusPayne

0ptimusPayne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,745
If the 6 rings prior didn't seal it, then that absolute goat playoff run on the road against the best NFC QBs and winning a SB in his own house for the first time ever with the Bucs did. Nobody will surpass him in my lifetime.
 
Advance.Wars.Sgt.

Advance.Wars.Sgt.

Member
Jun 10, 2018
8,807
THE210 said:
Joe never lost a super bowl. He was injured a bunch and didn't benefit from the Luck that Brady had. The Pats should have lost a couple of bowls but coaching incompetence saved them. The Seahawks and the Falcons really blew those games.
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It's only in sports fandom great players get more credit losing early in playoff rounds than the guys who found a way to make it the final game but lost.
 

Tttssd1972

Member
May 24, 2019
2,478
Not even debatable IMO. 10 trips to the Super Bowl! And 7 Rings! Mind boggling. Will never happen again. I always like watching Packers fans try to debate Rodgers vs. Brady. Always brings me a hearty chuckle.
 
JackBauer24

JackBauer24

Member
Oct 28, 2017
586
Brady did it in an era of free agency. It is extremely difficult to succeed when a team has to constantly balance talent and finances.
 
Advance.Wars.Sgt.

Advance.Wars.Sgt.

Member
Jun 10, 2018
8,807
THE210 said:
I mean sports fans also gloss over cheating scandals as well.
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Yep, same sports fans who also erroneously believe coaches "make" players who they are. Especially of a particular coach for a certain QB who didnt have a winning record prior to a freak accident vaulting the latter into the starting spot.

We sure do love to pick and choose our narratives
 
SmackDaddy

SmackDaddy

Member
Nov 25, 2017
3,136
Los Angeles
i dunno, good QBs are just consistent. they are rarely flashy in the NFL.

That Montana highlight reel just made me realize how good the receivers were. some of the throws were shit, lagging behind his man.

The best QBs (like brady) just hit the easy passes (and the hard ones) over, and over, and over. Nobody is more consistent than Brady, and that's why he's the GOAT.
 
HeavenlyE

HeavenlyE

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,800
JCizzle said:
Didn't lose a Super Bowl.
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Montana had a 3 year stretch in the playoffs where he scored 0 touchdowns got blown out twice while only scoring three points, and got benched in the third year
THE210 said:
Joe never lost a super bowl. He was injured a bunch and didn't benefit from the Luck that Brady had. The Pats should have lost a couple of bowls but coaching incompetence saved them. The Seahawks and the Falcons really blew those games.
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Rodderick

Rodderick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,667
Kadey said:
Rings = Brady

Arm strength = Joe

Preparation = Brady

Talent, making plays and football IQ = Brady

Better Team player/leader= Brady

Video games = Joe

Level of opponents = Debatable

Better dresser = Brady

Cooler = Joe
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There's no planet in which Joe Montana has a better arm than Tom Brady, your people really should watch them play sometimes. This narrative that Brady has a weak arm is the most bonkers one in all of sports. Brady at 44 had better velocity than Montana did at 25.
 
Advance.Wars.Sgt.

Advance.Wars.Sgt.

Member
Jun 10, 2018
8,807
Rodderick said:
There's no planet in which Joe Montana has a better arm than Tom Brady, your people really should watch them play sometimes. This narrative that Brady has a weak arm is the most bonkers one in all of sports. Brady at 44 had better velocity than Montana did at 25.
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I honestly have no idea where this most recent "Brady had/has a weak arm" narrative sprang from, because he always threw the ball with velocity even before he bulked up, which he credits to his days playing baseball.

In fact, it was him having too much velocity which was ironically what made him a "bad" deep ball thrower earlier in his career.
 
NinjaScooter

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
54,062
Rodderick said:
There's no planet in which Joe Montana has a better arm than Tom Brady, your people really should watch them play sometimes. This narrative that Brady has a weak arm is the most bonkers one in all of sports. Brady at 44 had better velocity than Montana did at 25.
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I'm curious how many people making this argument watched Montana play at all, outside of like highlight videos on Youtube or clips on NFL network or something. I mentioned this a couple of weeks back during the NBA Top 75 thread discussion but with older players a lot of people have a tendency to mythologize them, often times because they didn't actually watch them play or experience that in real time. So when you compare modern players you are comparing them to what is essentially this image of a God people have built up in their minds, as opposed to having good faith discussions or arguments. Tom Brady could win 5 more Super Bowls and the people who say Montana is better, or say things like "Montana had a better arm" or "Montana was a better winner" aren't going to change their minds.
 
Rodderick

Rodderick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,667
Advance.Wars.Sgt. said:
I honestly have no idea where this most recent "Brady had/has a weak arm" narrative sprang from, because he always threw the ball with velocity even before he bulked up, which he credits to his days playing baseball.

In fact, it was him having too much velocity which was ironically what made him a "bad" deep ball thrower earlier in his career.
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People conflate the short passing game he ran at times with the Patriots with having a weak arm, which is stupid. Patrick Mahomes has crazy arm talent and a low average depth of target. Brady always had a really good arm, but not the Josh Allen/Favre type of howitzer.
 
shintoki

shintoki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,068
Montana had a super stacked team, many on which consider the best of all time. The 80s to early 90s Niners were fully stacked on both ends of the ball. Brady wouldn't of had a 20+ year career of high production back with 80s hits, but its not like Montana wasn't throwing to Rice. Even during his time, Marino was the better QB, but never had a fraction of the team Montana had.

I can't say which is better, but what makes Brady is we've never seen anyone yet with production for that long.
 
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