Is it OK to Say "F*cking White People" as a White Person to POC?

[Sanka]

Depends on the delivery I guess. In a joking, sarcastic manner in response to something outlandish white people do? Sure. In anything that has actually to do with racism and things that are harmful? Avoid it, at least with strangers since it can come off as weird. With friends it's whatever.

 

[Dad_and_Videogames]

Seems like a "But I'm one of the good ones..." thing.

 

[Dandy]

AKA how to let POC know you think you are one of the good ones.

 

[Solaris]

To me it comes across as a really weird and desperate way to try and win some brownie points with POC

 

[Turin]

I'd expect POC would just think I'm ass kissing and lack a spine.

It's like being a man and deliberately signaling how feminist you are. Tacky to say the least.

 

[darz1]

I wouldn't overdo it but there are certain context where I think it's fine.

Trump becomes president. It's ok

White lady calls police on a non-white family for having a picnic in a park. It's ok

Armed standoff from white power militia in rural Oregon. It ok

Douchebag Dennis is being a douche in the office. Probably wouldn't be appropriate

 

[Foxashel]

I'm cringing just thinking about it.

 

[Deleted member 49611]

no.

 

[Sibylus]

You get why it's performative but not why it's racist?

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Yes. I can entertain the notion of anti-white racism existing, but it's in a world neither I nor any white person are liable to see. There is no system that pushes it, to start with, and white as a racial identity/ethnic identifier is a fucking joke and nazi conspiracy fodder second. At best, it's concern trolling.

 

[ty_hot]

Not all people know that OP is an "ally" so I guess it would sound weird for many, and even for those that know it might too. Racism is structural so I think that a white saying that can sound like you know what you are talking about when in fact, as you said, you dont truly know or felt racism in your own skin.

 

[Rehynn]

Yes. I can entertain the notion of anti-white racism existing, but it's in a world neither I nor any white person are liable to see. There is no system that pushes it, to start with, and white as a racial identity/ethnic identifier is a fucking joke and nazi conspiracy fodder second. At best, it's concern trolling.

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It doesn't have to be institutional/systemic to be racist though.

And I'd actually argue that if we make it a "rule" that generalization against whites is fine, we're already giving it a structural and systemic element within culture.

 

[Sibylus]

It doesn't have to be institutional/systemic to be racist though.

And I'd actually argue that if we make it a "rule" that generalization against whites is fine, we're already giving it a structural and systemic element within culture.

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Racism isn't just another way of talking about individual conduct. It began as an institution (being aided and abetted both by industry and the sciences, shamefully), it remains as an institution, and to talk about it outside of those terms on the behalf of imagined white grievances merely muddies the waters and (once again) centers the discourse on people who get upset about being called a cracker. It reminds me a lot of all the white people who try to equivocate Irish indentured servants to enslaved Africans with dodgy history on Facebook and other places of social media (which is bullshit, incidentally, the Irish were never slaves). White people don't suffer racism either, and people should really stop and consider the damage they do arguing the contrary! I've heard plenty of generalizations about white people made both in person and online, and at no point did any of it constitute racism. Now, folks like say, Slavic people specifically? There's certainly a history of racism there.

 

[Rehynn]

Racism isn't just another way of talking about individual conduct. It began as an institution (being aided and abetted both by industry and the sciences, shamefully), it remains as an institution, and to talk about it outside of those terms on the behalf of imagined white grievances merely muddies the waters and (once again) centers the discourse on people who get upset about being called a cracker. It reminds me a lot of all the white people who try to equivocate Irish indentured servants to enslaved Africans with dodgy history on Facebook and other places of social media (which is bullshit, incidentally, the Irish were never slaves). White people don't suffer racism either, and people should really stop and consider the damage they do arguing the contrary! I've heard plenty of generalizations about white people made both in person and online, and at no point did any of it constitute racism. Now, folks like say, Slavic people specifically? There's certainly a history of racism there.

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So what would you call assigning a set of characteristics to a group based on the color of their skin?

 

[Sibylus]

So what would you call assigning a set of characteristics to a group based on the color of their skin?

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Racism is a systemic, institutionalized worldview ascribing significant differences to an ethnic group in evolutionary origins and mental and physical capabilities by dint of shit like melanin... not a generic label to slap on any instance of people generalizing white folks.

 

[Bryo4321]

Depends on the delivery I guess. In a joking, sarcastic manner in response to something outlandish white people do? Sure. In anything that has actually to do with racism and things that are harmful? Avoid it, at least with strangers since it can come off as weird. With friends it's whatever.

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This person is wise, trust this person ^

 

[Rehynn]

Racism is a systemic, institutionalized worldview ascribing significant differences to an ethnic group in evolutionary origins and mental and physical capabilities by dint of shit like melanin... not a generic label to slap on any instance of people generalizing white folks.

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You did not answer my question.

 

[Sibylus]

You did not answer my question.

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Because your question rests on a sloppy gotcha.

For example, one could satisfy it by generalizing sets of melanin concentration for different groups on the basis of skin color.

 

[oRuin]

Nope.

 

[Advance.Wars.Sgt.]

Certain users here will do anything to equate the paltry racial microaggressions white people can sometimes face, brought about by a social caste system in the name of white supremacy, with the more pertinent and prevailing forms of racism.

Cry victimhood somewhere else.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

It depends on how well you know the person. If it's just someone random you just met I imagine it's prolly pretty weird and try-hardy, if it's someone you're close with it's fun to shoot the shit 🤷‍♂️

Edit: oh lol I wouldnt do it at work

 

[Parthenios]

This seems like an insta-terminaton for racism in most workplaces.

I guess it's fine in other non-work settings, though I personally would avoid that too. My PoC friends will make similar jokes about their own race ("colored people time" when they're late is a common one), which is uncomfortable because it feels like that Chapelle thing. If I laugh, how do they know I'm not laughing because I'm a racist who actually believes that stereotype?

 

[Rehynn]

Because your question rests on a sloppy gotcha.

For example, one could satisfy it by generalizing sets of melanin concentration for different groups on the basis of skin color.

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Please don't make bad-faith assumptions about my intent and use it as an excuse to dodge a very simple question.

I feel that the conclusions you derive from your definition are, ironically, very white- and West-centric, and ignore a lot of precedent from around the world where Caucasians are a minority. I understand and share the underlying sentiment, but statements like "I can entertain the notion of anti-white racism existing, but it's in a world neither I nor any white person are liable to see" show that it might be leading you to compromise on facts and consistency to maintain a desired conclusion.

 

[FeistyBoots]

No. I would avoid this. Not that you're wrong, but it's eye-rolly to me when I hear white people shit on "white people".

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SEE EDIT I AM DUMB

So, people should avoid this... because you're annoyed... when people in the oppressive class call out that oppressive class for its institutionalized systemic racism?

*blinks*

Edit: oh my gosh I'm an idiot. I didn't take the context of the party being complained to into consideration, that's completely my fault. Sorry!

 

[FF Seraphim]

1. If a white person I know just ups and says "Fucking White People" I would first find it hilarious depending on the context. Now if it was a serious situation or based on severe news and they say "Fucking White People" it would be me thinking the person is making fun of the issue. So context matters.

2. If I was in your position at a job, I would NEVER say that around anyone, EVER. You do not need to make anyone come up with an excuse to get you investigated for bias or just general inappropriate language. If another person heard you say it and wasn't cool with it they could possibly report you to HR and even if you are white you could get in trouble. Also that just isn't language you would use in a professional work space.

 

[Advance.Wars.Sgt.]

So, people should avoid this... because you're annoyed... when people in the oppressive class call out that oppressive class for its institutionalized systemic racism?

*blinks*

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What good is calling out the oppressive class if the audience you choose to express those feelings consistently falls on the oppressed ears?

It's a meaningless gesture exemplifying slacktivism at best.

 

[Deleted member 15136]

If you say it that's on you. There's valid cases where a white person can say it, I guess

 

[Deleted member 56266]

sure but its fucking cringe (To clarify: from my firsthand experience)

 

[AnansiThePersona]

So, people should avoid this... because you're annoyed... when people in the oppressive class call out that oppressive class for its institutionalized systemic racism?

*blinks*

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Yeah it comes off as pandering to me. I don't like it. But you do you.

 

[Wackamole]

Sounds silly to me.

 

[FeistyBoots]

What good is calling out the oppressive class if the audience you choose to express those feelings consistently falls on the oppressed ears?

It's a meaningless gesture exemplifying slacktivism at best.

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Yeah, I agree there. I think I was just responding to the idea that people shouldn't do it because the poster dislikes it, when 1) I actually don't know the poster's background and 2) kind of forgot that the question was about saying it to PoC. For some reason, between reading the OP and responding I somehow forgot that important context in my haste to support calling out white people for racism! Sorry about that. >.<

Basically, I made an error. As I'm mostly white, it's not my place to answer the OP's question.

 

[FeistyBoots]

Yeah it comes off as pandering to me. I don't like it. But you do you.

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I definitely goofed. I wouldn't do this either.

 

[jotun?]

Regardless of what race you are and which race you're commenting on, any statement that equates race with behavior is dangerous because it perpetuates racist ways of thinking

 

[Hokahey]

Saying "fuck [insert race here]" is racist and you will likely get fired from a real job for saying it should you be reported.

ERA is not the real world.

 

[Sibylus]

Please don't make bad-faith assumptions about my intent and use it as an excuse to dodge a very simple question.

I feel that the conclusions you derive from your definition are, ironically, very white- and West-centric, and ignore a lot of precedent from around the world where Caucasians are a minority. I understand and share the underlying sentiment, but statements like "I can entertain the notion of anti-white racism existing, but it's in a world neither I nor any white person are liable to see" show that it might be leading you to compromise on facts and consistency to maintain a desired conclusion.

Click to shrink...

Just the way it reads, friend.

What is exactly ironic here? I am very white and have lived in the West all my life, and I've made no bones about it. My personal experience with racism is not something I'd draw any conclusions from, I place far more weight on the lessons of history and listening to PoC voices who know the ins and outs of the beast far better than I do. It's because of those influences that I stress the institutional (and oftentimes, colonial/imperial) essence of racism.

 

[Rehynn]

Just the way it reads, friend.

What is exactly ironic here? I am very white and have lived in the West all my life, and I've made no bones about it. My personal experience with racism is not something I'd draw any conclusions from, I place far more weight on the lessons of history and listening to PoC voices who know the ins and outs of the beast far better than I do. It's because of those influences that I stress the institutional (and oftentimes, colonial/imperial) essence of racism.

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What is ironic is that you've clearly put effort into educating yourself about race relations beyond your personal experience yet make generalizations that ignore relevant issues simply because they are not from your relatively immediate geographical and cultural environment.

And let's not pretend there's only one way to read my question. But I'll try again, hopefully for the last time: What do you call something that is considered racist when committed against persons of color but not when it is committed against whites?

 

[Sibylus]

What is ironic is that you've clearly put effort into educating yourself about race relations beyond your personal experience yet make generalizations that ignore relevant issues simply because they are not from your relatively immediate geographical and cultural environment.

And let's not pretend there's only one way to read my question. But I'll try again, hopefully for the last time: What do you call something that is considered racist when committed against persons of color but not when it is committed against whites?

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You presume much.

And as I've been good to provide specifics and explain the whats and the whys of my reasoning more than once, would you play ball and do likewise? If there is indeed racism against white people in the world that has fallen into my blindspot, I would be gratified to learn of it and discuss that. Specifics, in other words.

 

[Javaman]

It's a pretty dumb thing to say. Pretending to be woke yet stereotyping a whole race. Reeks of "please like me please".

 

[Messofanego]

I think it can be fine, but I think only in a very specific context.

Most of the time it comes off like this.

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haha his Office video is great too

 

[maximumzero]

I think the only situation this could slide in would be saying it to a POC that you're well-aquainted with or close friends with. Someone that knows you and knows that you're like the white person in question.

Saying it to a rando on the street though, yeah that's fucking awkward.

 

[Mullet2000]

I think it can be fine, but I think only in a very specific context.

Most of the time it comes off like this.

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This is exactly the video I was going to use as an example of how doing this would come off, lol.

 

[jacket]

 

[HiLife]

Thread title reminds me of a key and peele skit

 

[SilverX]

It sounds pretty much the same as "Like me, dammit!"

 

[LegendofJoe]

I grew up in a town that was majority black. The thought of saying that around them is about as cringeworthy as it gets. They already know that a lot of white people suck, you aren't telling them new information. I'd expect it from socially awkward people who aren't accustomed to being around PoC.

The only time I wouldn't internally cringe hearing it if it's a joke in response to ridiculous behavior that only white people engage in.

 

[AbsoluteZero0K]

Hearing this while growing up in a deep red state might have changed the trajectory of my life.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

People criticize their own race all the time. Not sure why it's a big deal if white people are doing it.

 

[DerbyCityDerek]

Everybody calls out the groups they belong to. Women make fun of women, gays make fun of gays, black people make fun of black people. The irony is I feel like it's the most privileged categories (white people, men, cisgender people, heterosexual people) that most overthink this shit, and overthinking it is what leads to you looking like a try-hard.

People can tell when you're forcing a joke or attitude, or when you're being inauthentic. If you're a white dude ragging on white people specifically because POC are around and you think it will go over well... everyone in the room can tell.

The solution isn't "don't make fun of white people if you're white" it's to stop overthinking shit and stop treating it as a display of solidarity. A little self-deprecating humor is good for humility. Make it natural or don't fuck with it.

 

[BabyShams]

Depends on how well I know them and what my relationships with them is.

Guy at work, no
Random I just met, no
person I know, sure

 

[Deleted member 18360]

Everybody calls out the groups they belong to. Women make fun of women, gays make fun of gays, black people make fun of black people. The irony is I feel like it's the most privileged categories (white people, men, cisgender people, heterosexual people) that most overthink this shit, and overthinking it is what leads to you looking like a try-hard.

People can tell when you're forcing a joke or attitude, or when you're being inauthentic. If you're a white dude ragging on white people specifically because POC are around and you think it will go over well... everyone in the room can tell.

The solution isn't "don't make fun of white people if you're white" it's to stop overthinking shit and stop treating it as a display of solidarity. A little self-deprecating humor is good for humility. Make it natural or don't fuck with it.

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I agree with this. If it's natural and the effect is congenial/not weird then go ahead, but if it feels forced then keeping silent isn't a big deal and in that case if someone really wants to know your opinion on x they'll probably ask. But if it feels unnatural I'd seriously examine why that might be. I'm of the opinion that white people probably have a lesser sense of racial identity in most ways (since one characteristic of privilege is that it's 'invisible' or 'default')., or at least I'd claim that from a NA perspective, idk really anything about the ethnic fuckery of Europe for instance. But it's peak white nonsense to declare the world post-racial or to claim that they 'don't see race' and the only apparent reason that this is so is because race plays such a minor role in their lives. And if we can really grasp how privileged white identities are typically then there's really no rational basis to balk at the idea.

 

[0VERBYTE]

Out of all the atrocities white people has done in world history? This is fine.