Is it just me, or do people trash VR a little too much?

[Alucardx23]

What I mean is the existence of non-VR games ending. Maybe, maaaybe in the Matrix, but I still expect people jacked in would play traditional games for recreational purposes.

With Ready Player One level technology, I actually do expect a lot of people to play their non-VR games inside VR (and AR), it's just that they will still exist.

There will still be a demand for games without these extra effects you talk about because some people will want the pure unaltered flatscreen experience, especially when it comes to 2D games.

Click to shrink...

Sure, EmuVR is how I will show my kids how traditional consoles used to work, but I truly believe that there will be a point where traditional physical flat/TV only games will stop being made. Think about how the Magnavox Odyssey had overlays you had to put on top of your TV in order to change the game graphics. There is a reason why games don't require this anymore and we all know the answer. Game consoles don't have that limitation and are able to generate the graphics themselves. In my example, the physical TV is the limitation that will eventually also be removed. If someone makes a new traditional 2D game that can only be played on a virtual TV within a VR environment, then it has to be described as VR environment first, that also allows for traditional 2D games to be played. I realize we might be talking about different things at this point, but I hope that how I describe things is clear.

The Birth of The Home Video Game Console - VG Legacy

As companies were striving to become a major player in the video arcade market another battle was going on to lead the way in the home video game market.

vglegacy.com

 

[Mukrab]

You can use continuous movement in Half Life Alyx.

I also suspect this is the nexus of a lot of sentiment.

People that haven't tried it, knock it before hand, then build up additional rationales for why they hate it, again, without having tried it.

Click to shrink...

That was more of an example and i haven't been on a crusade against VR or anything. I just don't see it appealing to me. I'd be glad to be proven wrong. But like i said the only way i see this appealing to me is by just being a monitor replacement but at that point its just a gimmick and i probably would rather spend that money on upgrading my actual monitor. But if this was the case and i decided to buy a VR headset i still wouldn't be interested in "VR" games but just regular games that work on VR but i assume thats podsible for a lot of games?

 

[Alucardx23]

Maybe. That future is at least a decade away, if not two or three.

Click to shrink...

You should have made some research before saying that.

 

[Mukrab]

You probably don't care about VR because you think you have to move around so much. You really don't. Only motion controls and specifically room-scale games get you moving around. You can simply sit down with a gamepad and barely move.

You can move in Alyx with a joystick, and you can't judge VR from videos; it's never representative of the experience.

There's no question you're going to be extremely surprised when you try VR, because it's not how you think it is.

Click to shrink...

Well tell me how it actually is. The Alyx thing was an example. It's the VR manufacturers job to sell me on VR. Saying oh just buy it and you'll like it even if you think you don't is not gonna cut it.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

Sure EmuVR is how I will show my kids how traditional consoles used to work, but I truly believe that there will be a point where traditional physical flat/TV only games will stop being made. Think about how the Magnavox Odyssey had overlays you had to put on top of your TV in order to change the game graphics. There is a reason why games don't require this anymore and we all know the answer. Game consoles don't have that limitation and are able to generate the graphics themselves. In my example, the physical TV is the limitation that will eventually also be removed. If someone makes a new traditional 2D game that can only be played on a virtual TV within a VR environment, then it has to be described as VR environment first, that also allows for traditional 2D games to be played. I realize we might be talking about different things at this point, but I hope that how I describe things is clear.

The Birth of The Home Video Game Console - VG Legacy

As companies were striving to become a major player in the video arcade market another battle was going on to lead the way in the home video game market.

vglegacy.com

Click to shrink...

Physical, yes. I can't see how anything other than the Matrix would cause all non-VR development to cease. Some people just want to stick to the stuff they grew up with. This is why some people only play 2D games or retro games.

And about 2D, it's much harder to convince those people that they'd want the floor in their room to collapse if they fall in their Meat Boy esque sidescroller. Yes, you can recreate any effect you wish, but some people just won't accept that. Some will, some won't.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

Well tell me how it actually is. The Alyx thing was an example. It's the VR manufacturers job to sell me on VR. Saying oh just buy it and you'll like it even if you think you don't is not gonna cut it.

Click to shrink...

They can't sell you on it that easily because they are condensing an in-person experience into a 2D video. VR is an experience more than anything else; it provides the feeling of being in that place, having lifesized characters and worlds around you, and the feeling that this invokes is unique. For example someone may get so scared off a height in a VR game their legs will lock up, or they will feel their actual personal space invaded if something gets too close. These are new emotions only possible in-person, not on video.

However one thing that comes across well from videos is the agency/interaction. VR dramatically increases just how much freedom you have as an entity in a world.

That being said, you don't want to move right? Then the immersion of VR is where it excels, and I really can't show any videos or gifs to help this because you can't get that experience except in person.

I will tell you that RE7, Alien Isolation, Hellblade, Wipeout and Astro Bot are incredible VR experiences played with a gamepad that gain so much from the tech.

 

[Mukrab]

They can't sell you on it that easily because they are condensing an in-person experience into a 2D video. VR is an experience more than anything else; it provides the feeling of being in that place, having lifesized characters and worlds around you, and the feeling that this invokes is unique. For example someone may get so scared off a height in a VR game their legs will lock up, or they will feel their actual personal space invaded if something gets too close. These are new emotions only possible in-person, not on video.

However one thing that comes across well from videos is the agency/interaction. VR dramatically increases just how much freedom you have as an entity in a world.

Click to shrink...

I get that. And i said in my post that being inside the game was great. Im just not sold on the actual playing part.

 

[TaySan]

I enjoyed my time with my Vive and Oculus Rift, but i sold both of the headsets and i'm going to wait a couple more years until the hardware and software lineup is more fleshed out. The library still isn't there yet and the headsets were very uncomfortable for a long game session. I also don't have as much room as i used to so i hope there will be a solution for that as well.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

I get that. And i said in my post that being inside the game was great. Im just not sold on the actual playing part.

Click to shrink...

Then you'll have to try it first hand and find whether you want to be active or not. If yes, then success. If not, you should try gamepad VR games.

 

[Nola]

That was more of an example and i haven't been on a crusade against VR or anything. I just don't see it appealing to me. I'd be glad to be proven wrong. But like i said the only way i see this appealing to me is by just being a monitor replacement but at that point its just a gimmick and i probably would rather spend that money on upgrading my actual monitor. But if this was the case and i decided to buy a VR headset i still wouldn't be interested in "VR" games but just regular games that work on VR but i assume thats podsible for a lot of games?

Click to shrink...

So speaking as someone with some of the same preconceptions, though perhaps not the same level of cynicism. "VR" games are the way they are one, because it is an emerging tech, so there is a lot of figuring things out going on still, but also because the experience is just notably different, so it requires a different approach. And it really is hard to fully explain until you actually experience it. The way your brain processes and reacts, the way certain experiences are just very different compared to traditional gaming(and really any other experience barring real life), and the way the brain immerses you and how that alters your experience and the stimulus feedback.

Stuff that you would consider tame or boring because of your experience with traditional gaming and knowing how that stimulus feedback loop works in that space is completely different in VR. That was probably the biggest realization for me. Who just thought it was a more immersive version of traditional gaming mixed with a Kinect like experience. A lot of what I thought I would want out of VR is actually a lot different and broader(in a good way) now that I've experienced it.

 

[Nola]

I enjoyed my time with my Vive and Oculus Rift, but i sold both of the headsets and i'm going to wait a couple more years until the hardware and software lineup is more fleshed out. The library still isn't there yet and the headsets were very uncomfortable for a long game session. I also don't have as much room as i used to so i hope there will be a solution for that as well.

Click to shrink...

I also think this is fair.

I got mine really because Half Life pushed me over the edge, but given the lack of HL tier titles out there, I can get the hesitation.

I think HL really shows the promise of the tech, but it really needs a few more of those titles.

Hopefully the success will push 2 or 3 more companies to make one or more similar investments and the platform can really start building a foundation that makes people want to invest and feel they get their money's worth

 

[Th0rnhead]

A decade? Sure. Two or three? You'd be surprised at where things are in R&D labs

Click to shrink...

Oh, I'm aware of all of that. I'm just thinking about widespread, mass market adoption worldwide (meaning that it's accessible in countries with emerging economies). Beyond enthusiast and enterprise use. At a reasonable price point while being capable of those features. It could be possible in 10 years, but I feel like 15 is more realistic. Maybe 20. 30 is like, worst case scenario in terms of adoption, innovation, and accessibility.

You should have made some research before saying that.

Click to shrink...

?
I mean, it's just my opinion. 10-30 years is a pretty broad range, and I kind of doubt it will blow up in less than 10 years. At least, in a way that radically changes society.

 

[Doc Kelso]

I get that. And i said in my post that being inside the game was great. Im just not sold on the actual playing part.

Click to shrink...

Personally, VR games tend to be more exciting for me because I'm making the physical motions to perform the action that I'm trying to do in VR. Boneworks is a decent example; There was a level in which they provided me primarily with knives. So I had to stalk around enemies, actively crouching (physically, but they have a button for crouching too) and peeking around corners (again, physically moving). Then when I had my opportunities, I would leap out and grab an enemy to drag it around a corner. Or I would literally pounce on them, jab my knife into them, and keep moving. There was a part where I literally jumped off of a roof to land on top of the enemy to take them down. Me, the player, had to actually perform the motions as if I were actually doing these things. Albeit in an exaggerated fashion. I was moving. I was stealthing around.

Sure, I've done all of that in non-VR games. But that experience alone was how young Doc Kelso thought video games would be when he was 30 years old. Minimal button presses, mostly me just interacting with the virtual space with my hands.

The selling word in VR games should often be "I". The best VR games are less about the character you're controlling and more how you--the actual human being--are interacting with the virtual world that was built.

 

[ss_lemonade]

I don't think I even know a single person who has a VR setup at home. I did show some friends me playing Half Life and they all liked what they were seeing.



I think playing this same section in 2d would not be the same and would be extremely dull. In VR though, even simple encounters are very immersive. I'm just glad I've sort of gotten used to smooth movement now.

 

[Doc Kelso]

I also think this is fair.

I got mine really because Half Life pushed me over the edge, but given the lack of HL tier titles out there, I can get the hesitation.

I think HL really shows the promise of the tech, but it really needs a few more of those titles.

Hopefully the success will push 2 or 3 more companies to make one or more similar investments and the platform can really start building a foundation that makes people want to invest and feel they get their money's worth

Click to shrink...

I think Valve putting out the Alyx level editor and stuff is going to be huge for VR. All you need is a solid, simple-ish to use set of tools and people will take them to absurd lengths. Look at all of the things we managed to get out of Half Life 1. If Valve makes it easy to put out a game that has a similar level of gameplay polish as Alyx? Hoooo boy.

 

[the-pi-guy]

I think the whole thing is kind of weird.
I really love VR, and I obviously want and expect it to succeed. But I really don't understand the desire for a medium to fail.
I don't like mobile games, but I don't attack them. I don't hope they fail because I think it would mean more games for me.

My thoughts on VR:
VR has a long ways to go. In terms of technology and marketing impressions.
There's a long way to go with displays to reach the same kind of quality we have with 4K televisions. We're getting pretty darn awesome results with the Varjo and Pimax headsets, but there's a way to go yet. We still have to work on lenses to make these things much smaller. We still have to work on software to run mixed reality reconstruction. We still have to get competent eye tracking on every headset. We still have to make these headsets tiny. A lot of work on audio. Haptic feedback would be awesome.

I think when these things get figured out, we'll be way closer to matrix level experiences than people really think we are.

There's a lot of half true impressions about VR. They're true right now, but they're not inherently something wrong with the medium. A lot of people don't realize all the research being done into virtual room reconstructions and virtual body reconstructions. I think people are going to be really amazed where the tech is in 5 years. VR tends to be isolating right now. But it's really not an inherent part of the platform. Despite what people's impressions are.

I think it's a big part of why Facebook is so interested in VR. Because in 5 or 10 years, VR will likely have the ability to bridge that gap between impersonal facebooking and actually being in person with someone.

There's so much potential with gaming, office work, travel experiences, etc. Honestly even crappy VR youtube videos can do a lot for presence. And I tried a really, really crappy youtube video, and it still felt like I was actually there. And all of this stuff can only get better.

I hope that the naysayers try it out, because I really believe that it's a special thing. To me, it's the kind of jump that 2D to 3D was, maybe even bigger. Being able to be surrounded by the environment, get up close and personal with an NPC, being able to look up at the stars and mountains and feel like I'm actually there.

There's nothing quite like it, when it works as it should.

 

[Windows-PC]

People are not thrashing VR. The large majority of Video Gamers just doesn't like VR for different reasons and VR enthusiasts are not able to accept that.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

People are not thrashing VR. The large majority of Video Gamers just doesn't like VR for different reasons and VR enthusiasts are not able to accept that.

Click to shrink...

People do thrash VR considering they throw the gimmick word around every so often. Have you been around any E3 / PSX streams? Any VR section gets bombarded with 80% "Lol VR piss off" comments.

 

[Doc Kelso]

People are not thrashing VR. The large majority of Video Gamers just doesn't like VR for different reasons and VR enthusiasts are not able to accept that.

Click to shrink...

? There are tons of people who show a complete disdain for VR and get actively pissy that it even exists because it's "taken away" Half Life.

 

[Alucardx23]

Physical, yes. I can't see how anything other than the Matrix would cause all non-VR development to cease. Some people just want to stick to the stuff they grew up with. This is why some people only play 2D games or retro games.

And about 2D, it's much harder to convince those people that they'd want the floor in their room to collapse if they fall in their Meat Boy esque sidescroller. Yes, you can recreate any effect you wish, but some people just won't accept that. Some will, some won't.

Click to shrink...

Now there is a point where you go too far, and that's stuff like VR will kill off non-VR.

Click to shrink...

Yes, but we both should agree this is two or three generations of people, how many people are playing games on the Magnavox Odyssey today for example, how many are using the TV overlays, how many 4:3 TV are being manufactured today that are compatible with the Magnavox Odyssey? There are people that will not know a life without VR and AR, just like the TV is for us now. Like always, change is gradual, but at some point in the future sales for AR/VR glasses will start to surpass physical TVs sales. As this happens we will also see an increase on the traditional flat games enhanced by AR/VR I mentioned. The full VR/AR games we have today will also continue to grow and evolve. All of this will eat the traditional flat TV market and at some point, if we continue that line for several years, there will be a point where the last physical TV is manufactured. For me playing a traditional game in a VR environment like EmuVR is not the same as playing a traditional game in real life with a physical TV, at that point you are already in a VR/AR app that simulates playing a flat game, whether you decide to enhance the environment or not, it doesn't matter, you have a VR/AR headset/glasses on using a VR/AR app.

 

[Datajoy]

If you don't mind me asking, have you ever tried VR? Wouldn't it be better to play your games as if you actually lived in that world?

Click to shrink...

Yes I've tried VR. I didn't enjoy it at all, it seemed incredibly shallow and gimmicky (that is just my personal opinion of course, I know there are a lot of people on here who love it). VR takes all the things I like about video games and completely de-emphasizes them. I view it in the same camp as I do Kinect games. It puts a giant mediating layer between you and the experience and makes everything extremely imprecise. Again, all in my opinion. I admit I haven't tried everything out there, including Alyx. And I may be biased as I am sensitive to motion sickness, even with FPS games on a large TV.

This isn't some binary zero sum relationship.

As VR grows and traditional gaming continues to grow, companies will dedicate increasing resources to fill each. Cell phones didn't kill off consoles and VR is unlikely to kill off traditional gaming unless the technology is so powerful that there is a huge exodus because it does better than all the things traditional gaming does, and at that point, who cares?

Click to shrink...

Obviously VR isn't going to kill off traditional gaming. But it absolutely will compete for finite development resources with traditional gaming. Look at Sony for an easy example. If they had poured all of the PSVR development capital (including developer people-hours) into developing traditional games, we certainly could have had an even better traditional first-party line-up for PS4. Even just a one-to-one example, I so wish that Astro Bot was developed for traditional console players.

 

[Zips]

If they had poured all of the PSVR development capital (including developer people-hours) into developing traditional games, we certainly could have had an even better traditional first-party line-up for PS4.

Click to shrink...

Is there proof of this?

 

[Nilou]

I'd love to try VR one day but sadly the price of entry is just too high for me. Wish I knew someone who owned it so I could try it even once though.

 

[Alucardx23]

I mean, it's just my opinion. 10-30 years is a pretty broad range, and I kind of doubt it will blow up in less than 10 years. At least, in a way that radically changes society.

Click to shrink...

What is "blow up" in numbers for you? 10 to 30 years is a pretty big time range if we take the growth rate on the graph below as reference.

 

[Datajoy]

Is there proof of this?

Click to shrink...

Its reasoned speculation, its not provable or disprovable. You are welcome to provide a coutner-viewpoint though!

 

[Windows-PC]

People do thrash VR considering they throw the gimmick word around every so often. Have you been around any E3 / PSX streams? Any VR section gets bombarded with 80% "Lol VR piss off" comments.

Click to shrink...

Sure the wording in comment sections can often be really harsh, especially on YouTube and Twitter. But these are probably little kids and I wouldn't take that too seriously. In the end this is there way to express that they don't want and like VR. That's why I'm only looking for news on RestEra, because here are the comments nicer and grown up.

 

[Woodbeam]

Let's just say there's a big, big, BIIIIIIG announcement that is upcoming in the sector that perhaps people like I would be privy to, that is informing my business decisions, that many on this board would not be privy to.

Click to shrink...

👀

 

[Magic-Man]

Yes I've tried VR. I didn't enjoy it at all, it seemed incredibly shallow and gimmicky (that is just my personal opinion of course, I know there are a lot of people on here who love it). VR takes all the things I like about video games and completely de-emphasizes them. I view it in the same camp as I do Kinect games. It puts a giant mediating layer between you and the experience and makes everything extremely imprecise. Again, all in my opinion. I admit I haven't tried everything out there, including Alyx. And I may be biased as I am sensitive to motion sickness, even with FPS games on a large TV.

Click to shrink...

I see your point. Hopefully they can somehow manage to ease motion sickness for those who suffer with that sort of thing, as that's a big hitch in the VR market.

 

[Zips]

Its reasoned speculation, its not provable or disprovable. You are welcome to provide a coutner-viewpoint though!

Click to shrink...

No no. There's apparently no actual need for me to do that. You did a fine job already.

its(...) speculation

Click to shrink...

 

[DarthBuzzard]

Sure the wording in comment sections can often be really harsh, especially on YouTube and Twitter. But these are probably little kids and I wouldn't take that too seriously. In the end this is there way to express that they don't want and like VR. That's why I'm only looking for news on RestEra, because here are the comments nicer and grown up.

Click to shrink...

I'm talking about people of all kinds, even people who work for tech that should know better.

Their way of expressing is shallow and ignorant. If someone wants to express displeasure for VR, they need to use facts instead of pushing off their feelings as gospel.

 

[Th0rnhead]

What is "blow up" in numbers for you? 10 to 30 years is a pretty big time range if we take the growth rate on the graph below as reference.

Click to shrink...

I'm talking widespread adoption outside of gaming. That specifically leads to societal change. I'm not saying it's going to take that long for gaming specific VR.

 

[Windows-PC]

I'm talking about people of all kinds, even people who work for tech that should know better.

Their way of expressing is shallow and ignorant. If someone wants to express displeasure for VR, they need to use facts instead of pushing off their feelings as gospel.

Click to shrink...

If people don't like VR for whatever reason than it's fine and you should accept that. End of Story.

 

[Alucardx23]

I'm talking widespread adoption outside of gaming. That specifically leads to societal change. I'm not saying it's going to take that long for gaming specific VR.

Click to shrink...

OK, so basically like the smartphone. How many millions/billions of VR/AR headsets are you talking about?

 

[DarthBuzzard]

Yes I've tried VR. I didn't enjoy it at all, it seemed incredibly shallow and gimmicky (that is just my personal opinion of course, I know there are a lot of people on here who love it). VR takes all the things I like about video games and completely de-emphasizes them. I view it in the same camp as I do Kinect games. It puts a giant mediating layer between you and the experience and makes everything extremely imprecise. Again, all in my opinion. I admit I haven't tried everything out there, including Alyx. And I may be biased as I am sensitive to motion sickness, even with FPS games on a large TV.

Click to shrink...

• You're confusing the medium of VR with current tech. Is it bulky? Yes. That won't be the case in 5 and especially 10 years.
• You don't need to use motion controls.
• Sickness can generally be avoided with the right comfort options.

VR is very clearly a medium that interests you, just perhaps not current technology - however, you'd be surprised at how precise it can already be with titles like Alyx, Lone Echo, and Walking Dead.

If they had poured all of the PSVR development capital (including developer people-hours) into developing traditional games, we certainly could have had an even better traditional first-party line-up for PS4. Even just a one-to-one example, I so wish that Astro Bot was developed for traditional console players.

Click to shrink...

And PS5 would be a worse-off machine because their VR R&D wouldn't have advanced the PS5 as much as it is today.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

If people don't like VR for whatever reason than it's fine and you should accept that. End of Story.

Click to shrink...

Yes. I should also accept it when people say video games are silly toys that inherently cause violence. I should just accept that. Thanks for telling the thread.

 

[Doc Kelso]

If people don't like VR for whatever reason than it's fine and you should accept that. End of Story.

Click to shrink...

There are still people "thrashing" VR. Especially people that should know better than to completely dismiss a piece of technology outright.

 

[Datajoy]

And PS5 would be a worse-off machine because their VR R&D wouldn't have advanced the PS5 as much as it is today.

Click to shrink...

Hmm that is an interesting point that I wasn't aware of.

 

[MaverickHunterAsh]

I can't say I've noticed that recently, but if so it's probably just a slight overreaction to the hardcore VR evangelists constantly talking about how VR is going to utterly destroy and erase traditional/non-VR gaming when VR has ever only proven itself viable as an additional/alternative pillar of gaming at best.

The best VR experiences are definitely legit, there's no doubt about that, but cost- and convenience-wise it's still way too far out of reach for the average consumer to be considered viable in a broad sense, and some (hopefully most) people are never going to be comfortable shutting out the world and people around them to wear a VR headset while gaming.

PSVR helped things along, I think -- I even considered getting it myself at one point -- but then I saw how it adds like a million wires to your gaming setup and I noped right out. Don't have the room or patience for that. Played Rez Infinite with PSVR at a friend's place once though and it was a goddamn revelation. Incredible experience.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

Yes, but we both should agree this is two or three generations of people, how many people are playing games on the Magnavox Odyssey today for example, how many are using the TV overlays, how many 4:3 TV are being manufactured today that are compatible with the Magnavox Odyssey? There are people that will not know a life without VR and AR, just like the TV is for us now. Like always, change is gradual, but at some point in the future sales for AR/VR glasses will start to surpass physical TVs sales. As this happens we will also see an increase on the traditional flat games enhanced by AR/VR I mentioned. The full VR/AR games we have today, will also continue to grow and evolve. All of this will eat the traditional flat TV market and at some point, if we continue that line for several years, there will be a point where the last physical TV is manufactured. For me playing a traditional game in a VR environment like EmuVR is not the same as playing a traditional game in real life with a physical TV, at that point you are already in a VR/AR app that simulates playing a flat game, whether you decide to enhance the environment or not, it doesn't matter, you have a VR/AR headset/glasses on using a VR/AR app.

Click to shrink...

I mean even if physical TV production stops, you still have the timeless idea of having non-VR games especially in 2D. Yes, they can be altered through VR/AR like The Lost Bear on PSVR, but some people that grow up in a VR/AR world will still like that simplicity even if it's on the side.

I'd love to be playing standard JRPGs 30 years from now, in addition to VR JRPGs.

I actually do think in the long-term future, most people will probably consume their traditional content in VR/AR.

 

[Magic-Man]

PSVR helped things along, I think -- I even considered getting it myself at one point -- but then I saw how it adds like a million wires to your gaming setup and I noped right out. Don't have the room or patience for that. Played Rez Infinite with PSVR at a friend's place once though and it was a goddamn revelation. Incredible experience.

Click to shrink...

Definitely sounds like you'd be into the Quest if you're looking for a non-wire option.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

I can't say I've noticed that recently, but if so it's probably just a slight overreaction to the hardcore VR evangelists constantly talking about how VR is going to utterly destroy and erase traditional/non-VR gaming when VR has ever only proven itself viable as an additional/alternative pillar of gaming at best.

The best VR experiences are definitely legit, there's no doubt about that, but cost- and convenience-wise it's still way too far out of reach for the average consumer to be considered viable in a broad sense, and some (hopefully most) people are never going to be comfortable shutting out the world and people around them to wear a VR headset while gaming.

PSVR helped things along, I think -- I even considered getting it myself at one point -- but then I saw how it adds like a million wires to your gaming setup and I noped right out. Don't have the room or patience for that. Played Rez Infinite with PSVR at a friend's place once though and it was a goddamn revelation. Incredible experience.

Click to shrink...

To be fair, shutting out the world is just a choice when a headset can do both VR and AR to a good enough degree. At that point you can tailor the isolation on a scale of 1-100. Do you want to be fully isolated in VR or barely at all? This will happen.

 

[Th0rnhead]

OK, so basically like the smartphone. How many millions/billions of VR/AR headsets are you talking about?

Click to shrink...

If we're comparing it to smartphones as of 2020, it'd be 3.5 billion VR devices. Looking back to smartphone users in 2011, it'd be nearly 1 billion.

 

[Alucardx23]

I mean even if physical TV production stops, you still have the timeless idea of having non-VR games especially in 2D. Yes, they can be altered through VR/AR like The Lost Bear on PSVR, but some people that grow up in a VR/AR world will still like that simplicity even if it's on the side.

I'd love to be playing standard JRPGs 30 years from now, in addition to VR JRPGs.

Click to shrink...

Let's just say that if you are using a VR/AR app to simulate playing flat games on your VR/AR glasses, in a world where no physical TVs are being manufactured, then for me this means VR/AR killing non-VR. I can't imagine someone saying at that point "You see, VR/AR did't kill non-VR". I think that's the best way I can explain it.

 

[MaverickHunterAsh]

Definitely sounds like you'd be into the Quest if you're looking for a non-wire option.

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Thanks! I am aware of the Quest; I probably should've mentioned this in my reply, but I'm a Mac user and have zero interest in getting a PC for VR or anything else, so for that reason it's still too out of reach/inconvenient for my personal situation. If a wireless "PSVR 2" emerges for the PS5, though, I will very likely jump on that without hesitation!

To be fair, shutting out the world is just a choice when a headset can do both VR and AR to a good enough degree. At that point you can tailor the isolation on a scale of 1-100. Do you want to be fully isolated in VR or barely at all? This will happen.

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Good point! That'll be a nice compromise if/when we get there, but at the same time, isn't the whole point of VR total immersion for a lot of folks? Would there even be a market for people who want to play VR games but only be, like, 10% or 50% immersed in them?

 

[DarthBuzzard]

Let's just say that if you are using a VR/AR app to simulate playing flat games on your VR/AR glasses, in a world where no physical TVs are being manufactured, then for me this means VR/AR killing non-VR. I can't imagine someone saying at that point "You see, VR/AR did't kill non-VR". I think that's the best way I can explain it.

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Well when we say non-VR games rather than strictly non-VR, that's the distinction I'm referencing.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

Good point! That'll be a nice compromise if/when we get there, but at the same time, isn't the whole point of VR total immersion for a lot of folks? Would there even be a market for people who want to play VR games but only be, like, 10% or 50% immersed in them?

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Well put it this way, you get to choose this immersion level based on your needs.

I might just want a coffee mug to show up in VR. I might just want to see my dog. I might want a chair. I might want my family in the same room. Or all of the above.

You'd still be very immersed in VR because you're adding things into that VR space. It's full immersion with the real world bleeding in. So yes you might see your dog walk past you in Elder Scrolls VII VR edition, but VR itself will be so immersive by that point that Half-Life: Alyx in 2020 will feel nowhere near as immersive.

VR is just part of the greater mixed reality continuum. The whole point is to have full control over reality - to add to it, remove from it, modify it, or fully transform it. Good enough MR will make reality clay in our hands.

 

[Ororo]

A good VR experience is expensive so not many people have tried it, some do and love it, some do but already have a preconception against VR so their reaction is "it's ok but it's a gimmick" without giving it much of a chance, some really do hate it, some have only had bad VR experiences and continue to judge it, some are traditional gamers and don't like the idea of VR so they bash it whether they have tried it or not, and some will just bash it without trying it.

Many of those will become believers as the tech becomes affordable, there is more content and it gets better. VR is the future of many industries but it's still growing and even with the hate it gets and has always gotten, I see more and more people starting to see why VR is a thing. Remember how many people said touch screens were never going to be a thing? Or cameras on the phone because of privacy? Or digital downloads? Or how the Mouse was just a gimmick (John C Dvorak) or how the internet wasn't going to be this huge thing (Bill Gates). Check back in 5 years and things will have changed for a more positive turn, check back in 10 and VR will be dominating everything.

 

[Alucardx23]

If we're comparing it to smartphones as of 2020, it'd be 3.5 billion VR devices. Looking back to smartphone users in 2011, it'd be nearly 1 billion.

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OK, so you need 3.5 out of the 7.8 billion humans on earth, using VR/AR in order for you to say it changed society. Now for perspective lets include some examples of things that in my opinion have changed society.

There are around 1.4 billion active cars in the road.
There are around 1.67 TV households worldwide.
There are around 1.5 billion PC's in the world.
The world's aircraft fleet is expected to increase from 25,830 to 50,660 aircraft between 2018 and 2038.

 

[Lant_War]

Thanks! I am aware of the Quest; I probably should've mentioned this in my reply, but I'm a Mac user and have zero interest in getting a PC for VR or anything else, so for that reason it's still too out of reach/inconvenient for my personal situation. If a wireless "PSVR 2" emerges for the PS5, though, I will very likely jump on that without hesitation!

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That's... kinda the point of the Quest :P. You don't need a PC, the headset runs the games.

 

[Alucardx23]

Well when we say non-VR games rather than strictly non-VR, that's the distinction I'm referencing.

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Just to be clear, I was replying to this "Now there is a point where you go too far, and that's stuff like VR will kill off non-VR.". But I think we both agree that AR/VR is also the future of how we play flat games.