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Is it just me, or do people trash VR a little too much?

Magic-Man

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I kept hearing this argument coming up again and again and again when Half Life: Alyx was announced, about how VR was this niche market, and that it's too expensive and has no games and will never be popular, etc etc etc.

I really don't get these arguments? The Quest is selling out every five seconds, with orders in the US backordered for two months. The demand is clearly there. PSVR has sold five million units, which is actually pretty great for arguably the worst big VR headset on the market. It's getting to the point where Apple is developing it's own headset, and lord knows how much that will end up selling.

There's also cheaper VR options like the Oculus Quest and PSVR. There's not a big gateway for it anymore, although Oculus really needs to work on getting the Quest back in stock *grumbles*

There's plenty of games for VR, no matter what platform you're on. Half Life Alyx and Beat Saber are the ones that everyone knows about, but you also have Tetris Effect, Boneworks, FNAF VR Help Wanted, Walking Dead Saints and Sinners, Pavlov, Echo VR, Rec Room, Superhot, VR Chat, and VR ports of Skyrim, Minecraft, No Man's Sky, and Resident Evil 7, not to mention all of the great smaller VR titles.

I get that it's not as big as regular consoles and PC's, but of course it's not. It's still a new market. Rome wasn't built in a day. But for what it is right now, it's selling great. I'm excited for the future of reality.
 
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Dr. Zoidberg

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Oct 25, 2017
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People who aren't into VR (which is perfectly valid) don't want their favorite developers' time, money, resources, and good gaming ideas going into this format they have no interest in. They would rather that be put into something they will play. I totally understand all the negativity even if I don't share it.
 
Yuntu

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It is true that it is a niche market and that its still too expensive if you really want the good shit. And what Zoidberg said. So I think its easy to understand why people arent really into it the same way they are into normal console/PC gaming with how the market currently is.

While I don't know when it will happen, because I really don't care about VR personally so I don't follow the topic closely, but at some point these sentiments will naturally disappear.
 

Raccoon

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May 31, 2019
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Right now it's cutting edge tech. Expensive, unproven. Often underperforming technically, occasionally unfun.

Plus, it's inherently not super accessible. It requires a lot more space than other ways to game, and it'll always make some people sick. Hell, my older sister can't see depth, so stereoscopic 3D in all its forms will never be an option for her.

At the moment it's kind of a niche thing, you could say.
 
Almeister

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Oct 25, 2017
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I really do think it's because people already only have so much time for the traditional video games industry as it is. VR is essentially a whole other medium that requires its own hardware, principles, and approach. You see it with the traditional games media, who are already swamped with the endless flood of new traditional console/pc releases that they didn't know how to - or I think, particularly want to - dedicate extra resources to cover it.

And I think for a lot of gamers, that lack of real coverage translates to just not having the mindspace, money or time to even really approach VR, and as such dismiss it because the alternative is getting into a whole other thing.
 

Raccoon

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May 31, 2019
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It's incredible technology, but I don't think its short-term future is as a consumer product that everyone owns. Instead, I think arcades are gonna come back, VRcades, if you will. Because top tier hardware and setups will remain too expensive for the average consumer to own.

And to focus more on your question, I think people are overly quick to dismiss it because they don't want to feel like the industry is going to leave them behind.
 
super-famicom

super-famicom

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I've never really heard people in real life trash VR. The most I hear is that it's pricey or their home setup doesn't really work for VR.
 
TheBaldwin

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Feb 25, 2018
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I never get vocal about it but you kind of have to understand that from my point of view having a sequel to a game (half life alyx) that I've beenw aiting years for suddenly being locked off behind a £900 accessory to an already expensive PC isn't exactly something ill be enthusiastic about.

I just hope more triple A VR games release that I have an interest in to justify my purchase later down the road
 
TechnicPuppet

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Oct 28, 2017
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It's just so irrelevant, I don't understand strong feelings in either direction.

I'd happily pay £100 or so to have it but any more than that and I'm out like most other people.
 
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Magic-Man

Magic-Man

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TheBaldwin said:
I never get vocal about it but you kind of have to understand that from my point of view having a sequel to a game (half life alyx) that I've beenw aiting years for suddenly being locked off behind a £900 accessory to an already expensive PC isn't exactly something ill be enthusiastic about.

I just hope more triple A VR games release that I have an interest in to justify my purchase later down the road
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I mean, it's under 500 dollars if you get the Quest and a Oculus link cable, but I do get your point.
 
Nzyme32

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Oct 28, 2017
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Krejlooc said:
it's not really people, it's more like the same few posters in every thread.
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There are lots of justifiable reasons to not be keen on VR, but most often yeah we see the same people peddling nonsense.

It certainly seems like there is also a group of people terrified of VR somehow making traditional games disappear, or furious that a developer has invested time in a VR project over a traditional one.

I just care about enjoying the games I like! People deciding to express their creativity on one thing over another should matter.
 
Lant_War

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TheBaldwin said:
I never get vocal about it but you kind of have to understand that from my point of view having a sequel to a game (half life alyx) that I've beenw aiting years for suddenly being locked off behind a £900 accessory to an already expensive PC isn't exactly something ill be enthusiastic about.
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You don't need a £900 accessory to play Alyx.
 
Rodney McKay

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Oct 26, 2017
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I've dabbled with it here and there and I'm super impressed by it, there just aren't enough games that I care enough to play to justify the price of a nice PC headset or even the cheaper $400 Quest.

I owned a Gear VR for my Note 4 back when that was first out and was super impressed even with that without positional tracking, but never used it much.
Also owned PSVR since that at least seemed to have the most games I wanted to play (like Wipeout), but even that I barely played.

Half-life Alyx is the first thing in a long time I REALLY wanted to play a VR game, but even that I've cooled on since it released. Like it has a ton of awesome stuff, but it still seems to have some of that VR jank to it. It's also disappointing that you need the most expensive controllers to be able to do everything like cocking the gun (I watched that Tested video where most controllers bump into each other when you try to do that).

I think I got a little over excited for VR early on, but since it's still so new, niche, and resource intensive it has just taken a long time to get VR to where I want it to be.
I kinda want the Quest especially since it got the Link support to connect with a PC, but even that I'm not sure how much I'd actually play it.
I think I may wait for the "next-gen" version of the Quest at this point. I'd love to have a fully wireless VR that can play stuff like Skyrim and Fallout 4.
 
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Blizz

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Oct 25, 2017
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Same as VR evangelists coming into every VR thread telling you that it's the second coming of Christ, there's extremes on both cases.
 
ClickyCal'

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It's niche, expensive, and not at a level to where everyone will be playing every game with it. People still see it as a gimmick in general. I wear glasses, so I already know vr will never be for me. Even then, I don't ever want to have to wear those things for hours when playing.
 
TheBaldwin

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Lintemuth-Studios said:
I mean, it's under 500 dollars if you get the Quest and a Oculus link cable, but I do get your point.
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Lant_War said:
You don't need a £900 accesory to play Alyx.
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I meant for the Valve index which was the intended way to play and the fingers thing seems cool.

But I think you both get my point regardless that having to spend £400 plus to just play one game.

Dont get me wrong, i want more triple a support and development so that costs go down eventually.
 
Angie

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It's one of those things that get hate that I really don't understand.
If people don't like it, they can always just ignore and read some other thread.
Do people get upset that other people do love VR?
Tetris Effect, Astro Bot and Beat Saber are some of the best this gen had to offer.
 

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TheBaldwin said:
I meant for the Valve index which was the intended way to play and the fingers thing seems cool.
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Things like the quest's touch controllers use capacitive sensors to track your fingers as well. Not to the fidelity of the index controllers, but that's the entire point of Steam Skeletal Tracking: to gracefully use as much capabilty as the controller provides for finger tracking. Alyx, with the Oculus touch, can do many of the same finger tracking things the index controllers do.

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ClickyCal'

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Lintemuth-Studios said:
Not really. It costs 400 dollars for a Oculus Quest (no PC required) and 300 if you have a PS4. That's the price of most consoles that everyone has. Only the super high end VR sets are expensive, and it would be like that with everything.
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That's literally the price of getting a switch right now for what most people still don't see as a big mainstay for games, and it's not a convenient setup on top of it. People don't want to spend $300/400 to play some stuff like batman vr, ironman, etc.
 
5taquitos

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TheBaldwin said:
I never get vocal about it but you kind of have to understand that from my point of view having a sequel to a game (half life alyx) that I've beenw aiting years for suddenly being locked off behind a £900 accessory to an already expensive PC isn't exactly something ill be enthusiastic about.

I just hope more triple A VR games release that I have an interest in to justify my purchase later down the road
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Look at it the other way: without VR, Valve likely wouldn't have made Alyx to begin with.
 
ImaPlayThis

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I don't know, I still see it as nothing more than a gimmick or at best a stepping stone towards the real goal, so I don't think it gets crapped on too much
 
Lant_War

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TheBaldwin said:
I meant for the Valve index which was the intended way to play and the fingers thing seems cool.

But I think you both get my point regardless that having to spend £400 plus to just play one game.

Dont get me wrong, i want more triple a support and development so that costs go down eventually.
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Oh yeah, I totally get the price argument (especially if you aren't in one of the main market), and it's definitely one of the barriers for mass-market level success. I think, however, that the hate at least on Era doesn't come from that angle seeing how lots of people are jumping into PS5 / XSX day 1.

The hate, imo, comes from seeing it as VR games "robbing" resources from normal games. It was certainly why I (before trying VR) was annoyed that in the first State of Play Sony focused so much on it instead of regular PS4 games.
 
Strangelove_77

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It's the people that aren't impressed by it as much as everyone else. Surely you can see this not being the thing for a lot of people. That's just how they feel.
 
ImaPlayThis

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Lintemuth-Studios said:
Not really. It costs 400 dollars for a Oculus Quest (no PC required) and 300 if you have a PS4. That's the price of most consoles that everyone has. Only the super high end VR sets are expensive, and it would be like that with everything.
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I mean this in the nicest way possible, but I'm glad you are living such a good life that $400 isn't expensive to you
 
Shadow

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super-famicom said:
I've never really heard people in real life trash VR. The most I hear is that it's pricey or their home setup doesn't really work for VR.
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Yeah, my family loved it and my online friends are always saying they want it. Only problem was some I showed it to tried games that made them feel sick which in turn made them shy away from it a bit. I should've been more strict, but I told them about some games do make you feel that way, especially at first, so they said they'll try more and different games in the future. Otherwise they loved it.
 
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Magic-Man

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yuoke said:
That's literally the price of getting a switch right now for what most people still don't see as a big mainstay for games, and it's not a convenient setup on top of it. People don't want to spend $300/400 to play some stuff like batman vr, ironman, etc.
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Don't get me wrong, I do get your point. But couldn't you make that argument for any console? Some might not want to pay 300 to get a Switch and play Mario Kart and Zelda and stuff. Some don't want to get an Xbox for Halo and Gears. Some don't want to get a PS4 for a bunch of third-person action games.

VR just provides a different experience and games library, much like all the rest do.
 
VPplaya

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I think in theory its a neat idea that has a ton of potential in the future. That being said, however, the price point is just too high for anyone but the most dedicated supporters. Like I've heard HL Alyx is great, but no matter how great a game is if the barrier to entry is a few hundred dollars for a 15 hour game you are not going to see sales that rival traditional big releases.

Again, this further creates a dilemma where you have people not wanting to spend that much money for what is essentially just a handful of non-tech demo games, but that in an of itself does not encourage game devs to risk spending time developing VR exclusives. Only once the barrier of entry is reduced will we ever see VR become anything but a niche market.

On top of all that, you also have many people (myself included) that become incredibly nauseous 2 seconds after trying it out. That only further narrows the market.

I don't think that's worth trashing VR per se, but in my experience more people get incredibly defensive when you criticize VR than anything else.
 
ClickyCal'

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Lintemuth-Studios said:
Don't get me wrong, I do get your point. But couldn't you make that argument for any console? Some might not want to pay 300 to get a Switch and play Mario Kart and Zelda and stuff. Some don't want to get an Xbox for Halo and Gears. Some don't want to get a PS4 for a bunch of third-person action games.

VR just provides a different experience and games library, much like all the rest do.
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It's an experience that still is way way way less proven or streamlined as those. You can get a switch for $300 and then get tons and tons of different first party games, third party, indie. Plus you can get a vr experience with labo, and stuff like ring fit. VR is that same price or more to get a way smaller library, the majority being more gimmicky games and not Alyx tier stuff.
 

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ImaPlayThis said:
I mean this in the nicest way possible, but I'm glad you are living such a good life that $400 isn't expensive to you
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$400 isn't the price I think many people are pointing to as the tipping point. Rather, it's just continuing proof of the lowering cost of VR. Just as, once upon a time, things like the PS3 were $600, but now you can have equivalent power in a $100 phone, so too will VR's price drop. It already has, that same type of set up used to be $1000+ just a few years ago (and much clunkier).

The $400 quest isn't the end goal, it's a sign of where things are heading.
 
TheBaldwin

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Lant_War said:
Oh yeah, I totally get the price argument (especially if you aren't in one of the main market), and it's definitely one of the barriers for mass-market level success. I think, however, that the hate at least on Era doesn't come from that angle seeing how lots of people are jumping into PS5 / XSX day 1.

The hate, imo, comes from seeing it as VR games "robbing" resources from normal games. It was certainly why I (before trying VR) was annoyed that in the first State of Play Sony focused so much on it instead of regular PS4 games.
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Oh of course I get that. I think the hate for VR games 'robbing' resources is because people see it as games being made that are on a platform/device that they aren't able to play on and is very costly (especially with PC costs combined if thats the route you want to take) and is very niche. The arguments for half life alyx where 'why couldn't this just be a standard FPS?'

I think the PS5/Xbox comparison isnt really applicable because those are devices that you know are going to be supported for 5-6 years with multiple triple a games, whereas with VR whilst it will stick around its never a certainty if the games will still be there in a few years.

Overall at least form my perspective it seems like an amazing way to play games, but has a pretty high entry cost for what is quite risky in regards to triple a game output and constant updates and variations of headsets being made at a time when the technology is still in its infancy, and people are just disappointing they cant play the games on it without feeling like it's a huge purchase risk.
 
1upmuffin

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Yeah, its quite frustrating. People come into threads just to be negative.
 
Ploid 6.0

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It feels like the same situation for gyro controls, and VR has that on top of a peripheral display that goes on your face.
 
DarthBuzzard

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VR is the most trashed sector of gaming aside from Stadia.

The thing is, it's never deserved it. This is just a case of gamers having no idea what VR is and thinking it's somehow opposes their beliefs when in countless cases, VR is very much something that would interest them.

People just aren't able to see past bulky headsets and surface-level YouTube meme videos on Job Simulator. That's what haters often see.
 
Optional Objectives

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Lintemuth-Studios said:
Don't get me wrong, I do get your point. But couldn't you make that argument for any console? Some might not want to pay 300 to get a Switch and play Mario Kart and Zelda and stuff. Some don't want to get an Xbox for Halo and Gears. Some don't want to get a PS4 for a bunch of third-person action games.

VR just provides a different experience and games library, much like all the rest do.
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As some who got onboard with PSVR, this seems like something to consider from a few perspectives. On the one hand, when exclusives come out that require VR of some kind, I can see people getting just as steamed as they do about exclusives, in general. It does kind of suck when good games are gated off from people due to hardware platform restrictions.

But on the other hand, requiring VR to play a game is a lot different than console exclusivity. After all, there are a variety of VR platforms at this point, and a lot of good games can be played with whatever gear someone has. So yes, Astro Bot is a kind of double exclusive - playstation only, VR only. But games like Moss or Tetris Effect are now out across platforms. At that point, it's less like an exclusive, and more like... what happens to games all the time, in that they require newer or specialized hardware to play.

With that difference in mind, I can sympathize with people who want Resident Evil 7 to have VR available on every platform, rather than being a Sony exclusive. But I don't really get why people are upset about the idea of VR, in general. You might as well get pissed off that some games require a controller or require M+KB controls
which, okay, some people also do.
 
packy17

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A good VR experience is still too expensive for how few quality games exist across genres, in my opinion.

You're being asked to buy into the platform for the same price as a console (or more, in most cases) to play Beat Saber, Half Life, some older Bethesda ports, and what essentially amounts to a few impressive tech demos in Boneworks. Obviously there are more games available than the ones I've listed, but these are the "big ones". It's just not doing it for me yet.
 
DarthBuzzard

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msdstc said:
Lol it's not even remotely the same thing.

I enjoy vr for sure, but I dont think it will ever replace traditional gaming.
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3D hasn't replaced 2D either.

Dr. Zoidberg said:
People who aren't into VR (which is perfectly valid) don't want their favorite developers' time, money, resources, and good gaming ideas going into this format they have no interest in. They would rather that be put into something they will play. I totally understand all the negativity even if I don't share it.
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This was always a flawed argument though. It's a short-term gain and a long-term detriment. If the entirety of VR went away and the resources were instead poured into traditional games, you'd get more of the same. Even traditional gaming wouldn't advance as fast because areas like AI, sound, and physics would be underdeveloped compared to a future where VR gets investment.
 
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