You should feel ashamed to have posted this. What the hell is the matter with you?
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Is God of War 2018's treatment towards women problematic? (Spoilers)
- Thread starter Megatron
- Start date
You should feel ashamed to have posted this. What the hell is the matter with you?
You make this sound more personal than tied to the game.
In response to the thread, no, for the reasons many have said already; also you wouldn't be asking this if GOW was a movie.
Did you not get that she'd basically already gone through the game with her ability to see into the future? She sets everything in motion, knowing directly where it would lead to. Hell, I wouldn't be shocked if her own death was also planned by her to have the most impact to get the ball rolling, so to speak(do we even find out how she died before the game started?).
Before we've even started controlling Kratos, she:
1) Used her own death as the trigger for the outside world invading to light a fire under Kratos and put him at odds with their gods
2) Told Kratos where she wants her ashes to be brought to, both at first leading her right into Mimir who further puts him at odds against the gods, and then to where the real goal was, getting Atreus to see all that she did/to understand what had to happen going forward
3) either placed the markers all along where they have to travel to go where she wants them to(either before the game starts or somehow during the game and watching over them)
For god's sakes, she may as well be holding the controller(not the player) and guiding Kratos's every actions. :p
Exactly, after finishing the game, you will learn that Faye actually planned everything, even her death was part of her plan, makes you think if she really loved Kratos or just using him to fulfil her goals.
Myeah there are plenty of more interesting ways to show the power of the valkyries than beating the crap out of them to save them from corruption. And I certainly hope Freya don't just end up like a crazyhead Kratos must knock some sense into before she starts acting normal again.
Kratos taking revenge for his innocent wife and child aren't the same as Freya losing her shit over Bader, who's trying to kill her.
i didn't write the story where dead mothers are heros and the ones who protect their kids are unstable harpies waiting to snap.
What? Play the fucking game. The main plot is about Kratos' anger issues and problem to let people, even his kid, close to him. It's his journey to repent for his shit from the past to finally become a somewhat decent person. He matures through his son. Power fantasy my ass. People see a muscular dude on the cover and judge the game. Laughable, yet sad.
I don't think Faye should count at all. She has no screen time or dialogue. The fact that we are even considering her a character speaks volumes about how well the writing really is. They took a dead woman and gave her such a great backstory that half of the internet believes she was in the game.
Freya is the only female character in the game and she's one of the best characters I've seen. She's the main voice of reason for most of the game. One who pushes kratos to trust his son so he doesn't grow to resent him. Clearly learning from her own past. She's absolutely wonderful in the finale and has easily the best most complex scene ive seen involving a mother and son in a game ever.
A few months ago someone else was complaining about a lack of mom son games using gow as an example of yet another father son game. Meanwhile completely ignoring the on going feud between balrog and freya.
There literally only four characters in the game. The other two are nothing more than glorified vendors. 1 is a father, 2 are sons, 1 is a mom.
Freya is the only female character in the game and she's one of the best characters I've seen. She's the main voice of reason for most of the game. One who pushes kratos to trust his son so he doesn't grow to resent him. Clearly learning from her own past. She's absolutely wonderful in the finale and has easily the best most complex scene ive seen involving a mother and son in a game ever.
A few months ago someone else was complaining about a lack of mom son games using gow as an example of yet another father son game. Meanwhile completely ignoring the on going feud between balrog and freya.
There literally only four characters in the game. The other two are nothing more than glorified vendors. 1 is a father, 2 are sons, 1 is a mom.
Interesting post history. Kind of begs the question why you'd offer an unfounded opinion given your past comments.
Remember what the character in your avatar does? we could go into all kinds of beautiful non sequitur
lol, this forum sometimes. Hard to tell what is trolling and what is genuine.
No issues with any characters in GoW for me. It's essentially God of War 4 so I don't know what some of you expected.
He isn't killing them. If you pay attention they were trapped in a physical form which corrupted them and drove them insane. Their natural form was the spirit form you see rise from the bodies after you free them.
My main problem is that I didn't give a shit about either Kratos or Atreus but I was pretty engaged whenever Freya tagged along with or helped us and couldn't help but be disappointed with where her character then went. She was the one character for me who was more than just an archetype and seemed to have a life and agency all of her own but then fell victim to being reduced to "scorned mom who will be the villain in the next game". I really felt like the game just discarded her at the end for "time for some father/son bonding", it's nowhere near as problematic as stuff in the earlier games but it can't not leave a weird taste given the dominant male perspective of the story.
Yup, just do badass stuff, be all cool and shit without nuance.
Ooooh. And why would that be? Could that be, because she just saw us snapping his sons neck and killing him?
That is humane reaction. That doesn't make her villain. Mimir even points this out when Atreus asks why she is mad for us, we saved her so Mimir tells him that we just killed her son and we need to give her time and she will come around it.
Did you seriously play this game?
Oh no Cory actually loves his mother and she loves him how problematic of them.
Seriously though people need to stop thinking too much about everything and trying to project it on people.
The "Cory resents his mom" is like the "Kojima hates women" A+ bullshit i read here sometimes.
Not at all, all the women are awesome. There's not really any difference between Faye's death being used to bring Kratos and Atreus closer, and for revealing Atreus's true nature than uncle Ben dying in Spider-Man to spur Peter Parker actually taking his powers and the responsibilities that come with them seriously, or Matt Murdock's father dying which leads to him fighting crime and becoming the Daredevil.
I know. This game, one of the few that is legitimately flawless, has a lot of nuance in its story that apparently is going over the heads of a lot of people.
We need to really elevate this board and not let trash posts like the one I am quoting tarnish it. Era can be a good source of discussion but it is important to weed out this trash.
This. I'm legitimately appalled at the kind of comments being thrown around here.
No no no. The game isn't black and white sis. She is intervening in your fight against her son and she looses everything she ever had which makes her upset. She is not the antagonist
I didnt find it problematic in any way. It's absurd to say 'there's 3 different types of women in the game. All have some flaw (at a stretch). Therefore the representation is problematic.'
No game is flawless, that includes GoW. From the top of my head exploring (especially post-game) could be sped up, they definitely need a better selection of story bosses in the next game (they kinda missed a beat by not making the 1st Valkyrie fight a story boss IMO) and the side-quests, while lore heavy, could use some more meat and variety to them.
However, the story was pretty much not a problem. Especially since it was made clear that it's the very 1st part of a new trilogy and there is a whole lot more we'll learn about the world and it's characters in the coming games. Stuff they've already set up and hinted at and stuff we're not gonna see coming also (as per usual with any story). Also, in that regard, it's a clear improvement from ALL the previous installments and the treatment of the women present/mentioned is either fair or good. Which doesn't necessarily mean that they're shown in a positive light all of the time, as is the case with Freya, a clearly complex character that's surely gonna see some highs&lows before the end of this journey.
As far as I can remember Brok and Sindri are the only characters in the game not subjected to violence. Draugr are ripped apart, trolls have their skulls crushed, the bridge keeper has his heart ripped out, Mimir has his head cut off, Magni gets an axe lodged in his head, Modi is stabbed and pushed off a cliff, Baldur is strangled and has his neck snapped (twice), even Atreus is stabbed and attacked at several points. It's a violent game. If people dislike that or find it distasteful when some of that violence is depicted against women then fine but I don't really see how it's problmatic. They are not treated any differently to the rest of the characters in that world. It doesn't in any way promote, glorify or sexualise violence against women in my opinion.
The one I can kind of understand is criticism of Faye and how she is "fridged" but I personally don't have any issue with the way she is handled. A dead loved one may not be a new idea but, like with many tropes, I think the way it is handled within the context of the fiction itself is just as important and I think God of War does a good job. Her character doesn't feel cheap. Yes, you could argue she is mainly to serve as Kratos' motivation but it's his game and pretty much everything that happens is to, directly or indirectly, move his story forward. I do believe Cory and the game itself has hinted enough about her having more agency than just being the dead wife too. We'll see how far that goes in future games I suppose.
The one I can kind of understand is criticism of Faye and how she is "fridged" but I personally don't have any issue with the way she is handled. A dead loved one may not be a new idea but, like with many tropes, I think the way it is handled within the context of the fiction itself is just as important and I think God of War does a good job. Her character doesn't feel cheap. Yes, you could argue she is mainly to serve as Kratos' motivation but it's his game and pretty much everything that happens is to, directly or indirectly, move his story forward. I do believe Cory and the game itself has hinted enough about her having more agency than just being the dead wife too. We'll see how far that goes in future games I suppose.
Care to go into your post and arguments for more detail or are you just going to stop there?
Yeah its really sad that a game that actually celebrates women is shit on for the opposite because people cant get any nuance and only see the books by its covers.
I think even Cory himself said at one point that part of the game is about how strong and important women and mothers are.
It doesn't seem like she's going to "get over it" tbh. Seems more like a super villain origin story. A justification for a sequel where Kratos kills her off in some appropriately gruesome way.
I agree , people complaining about the Valkyries being killed brutally, like really? Everyone suffers the same beat down Kratos hands out. Being a female doesn't change that, and shouldn't exclude them cause of public pressure. Let them make what they want to make don't buy if u don't like.
Also Freya and Faye wasn't just there as a back story to advance kratos, they played a big role in the story as some have pointed out and they are represented quite strongly in the game. Plus the Valkyries wasn't just there so kratos could beat more female characters, they had a good reason for kratos attacking them... Hell they were pleased to be free after snapping out of being controlled
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Cool? What sort of answers/discussion is this supposed to elicit? "I don't like thing" is pretty much a dead end from the start.
Not getting a lot of the pearl clutching and derision in this thread toward the very concept of somebody critiquing a game you like through this lens.
The game has a very confusing view of Freya.
Because... Freya is the villain.
She abuses her child for decades for her own selfish gains.
But then the game frames her as the victim of domestic violence when her abused son tries to kill her.
It's... very bizarre.
The game just wanted Kratos to kill someone while having it represent growth so they refused to humanize Baldur in any scenes and then had him choking a woman so that Kratos breaking his neck could be Cool and Anti-Hero and Profound and Good.
I made an entire thread about how Faye is a bizarre character also. You could view her as someone with a very convoluted plan to kill Odin that uses Kratos as a pawn for her plan but then... Kratos has no reaction to the revelation at the end so I'm not sure the game actually views her this way???
Because... Freya is the villain.
She abuses her child for decades for her own selfish gains.
But then the game frames her as the victim of domestic violence when her abused son tries to kill her.
It's... very bizarre.
The game just wanted Kratos to kill someone while having it represent growth so they refused to humanize Baldur in any scenes and then had him choking a woman so that Kratos breaking his neck could be Cool and Anti-Hero and Profound and Good.
I made an entire thread about how Faye is a bizarre character also. You could view her as someone with a very convoluted plan to kill Odin that uses Kratos as a pawn for her plan but then... Kratos has no reaction to the revelation at the end so I'm not sure the game actually views her this way???
Pretty much.
For all of its manufactured portent and weight, it's a pretty silly and meat-headed game all the same.
Flaws are systemic defects in design that hinder enjoyment. God of War suffered from no such defects. It does have a few superficial blemishes but nothing at all that systematically hurts the game.
I'm still soooooooo annoyed by the ending of God of War.
Baldur: "Why did you get involved? You could have just walked away!!!1!"
Love to have the villain directly reference the prior criticism of the main character throughout the game from his son and friends. Especially as the villain dies.
It's a super over the top signal that the game views this moment as critical growth for Kratos.
And like... He's snapping the neck of a dude who had been free from endless torture for literally ten minutes.
Baldur: "Why did you get involved? You could have just walked away!!!1!"
Love to have the villain directly reference the prior criticism of the main character throughout the game from his son and friends. Especially as the villain dies.
It's a super over the top signal that the game views this moment as critical growth for Kratos.
And like... He's snapping the neck of a dude who had been free from endless torture for literally ten minutes.
She abuses her child? She learned of a prophecy in which her kid was going to be killed and cast a spell to grant him invulnerability. How many parents wouldn't do the same if someone could accurately predict that their kid was going to be killed a young age? How is that villainous? Yeah how things ultimately turned out for Baldur was horrible, but Freya certainly didn't cast that spell out of malice of any sort.