Is flirting with a 19 year old at 28 creepy?

[808s & Villainy]

The argument isn't "what does neuroscience say a child is, and can you date it". The argument is that the 28 year old's faculties for making good decisions is both physically highly developed, and experientially developed in a way a 19 year old's isn't.

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Exactly, and it makes more sense to frame things in that holistic way than just solely repeating "prefrontal cortex development" and acting like it's a binary "not capable of informed decisions" vs "capable of informed decisions" based on whether the person is 25 years old or not

 

[Cyclonesweep]

Half your age plus seven - learn it, live it, love it.

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Ding ding ding

 

[HardTimesFamilyPride]

Exactly, and it makes more sense to frame things in that holistic way than just solely repeating "prefrontal cortex development" and acting like it's a binary "not capable of informed decisions" vs "capable of informed decisions" based on whether the person is 25 years old or not

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People are using development in that way because a reasonable person should be able to see the word "development" in this context and understand that we're talking about a gradient or a slow change and not a binary.

 

[808s & Villainy]

People are using development in that way because a reasonable person should be able to see the word "development" in this context and understand that we're talking about a gradient or a slow change and not a binary.

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If it was being treated as a gradient we wouldn't have posters saying people under 25 can't make informed decisions

 

[SubvertedTrope]

We're at a point now that we, as the LGBT community, need to start questioning and breaking the unhealthy habits born out of desperation in our past. Or at least discuss it openly. Most of us don't need to hide in the same way we used to, and with the internet it's easier than ever to find other people your age going through the same struggles as you. So why, as an adult LGBT individual, would you be cool with flirting or generally pursuing relationships with teenagers? Be a mentor or friend instead, without the romantic aspect.

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I'm sorry what? This is taking your own privileged experiences and applying them to presumably all queer people?

'Pack it up queers the struggle is over!'

White liberals, when will you learn.

 

[HardTimesFamilyPride]

If it was being treated as a gradient we wouldn't have posters saying people under 25 can't make informed decisions

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People under 25 have not fully developed the physiological elements of what could be considered informed decision-making, so how is it not understandable that someone might as a precaution just draw a line there?

 

[808s & Villainy]

People under 25 have not fully developed the physiological elements of what could be considered informed decision-making, so how is it not understandable that someone might as a precaution just draw a line there?

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You were the one who literally said you're talking about a gradient, not a binary, when that's exactly what you're doing when you "draw a line"

Plus I doubt if this was a 25 year old and a 34 year old (same age gap as the OP) people wouldn't be talking about "physiological elements" as such, so using that and that age isn't even really a good marker

 

[Thorrgal]

That's literally one of the functions the prefrontal cortex has. Inhibiting and regulating impulses, heping you judge the consequences of your actions. Of course you can make informed choices before it's completely developed. But you will be a lot better at it when that part of your brain is fully formed.

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But is that enough so that under 25's dating over 25's is creepy or problematic, or something they shouldn't do? We knew that the older you get the better your decision making skills become, that's why it seems to me the 25 year old "cutpoint" is a bit arbitrary. It could be 21 or 28 and the premise would still stand. I was pretty dumb for sure at 28.

Having said that I get people's point that as a 19y old is probably not a good idea to date a 28y old, or at least something that has to be approached carefully and knowing that that age discrepancy can lead to problematic situations.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

There are 24 year olds who have graduated law school and some of y'all are in here arguing that they lack the brain development to make informed sexual choices.

 

[apocat]

But is that enough so that under 25's dating over 25's is creepy or problematic, or something they shouldn't do? We knew that the older you get the better your decision making skills become, that's why it seems to me the 25 year old "cutpoint" is a bit arbitrary. It could be 21 or 28 and the premise would still stand. I was pretty dumb for sure at 28.

Having said that I get people's point that as a 19y old is probably not a good idea to date a 28y old, or at least something that has to be approached carefully and knowing that that age discrepancy can lead to problematic situations.

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Whether it's wrong or not is not something I have a strong opinion of. I just think that you should be very mindful of differences in both cognitive maturity and life experience when you're an adult nearing your thirties courting a literal teen. I can say for sure that I would never have entertained the thought of having a relationship with a 19 year old when I was in my late twenties.

 

[Rosebud]

Edit: decided to leave the thread, it's going in circles.

 

[HardTimesFamilyPride]

You were the one who literally said you're talking about a gradient, not a binary, when that's exactly what you're doing when you "draw a line"

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Development is a gradient. I mentioned drawing a line because some people don't want to risk someone's development along that gradient, so they draw a line in who they choose to be romantically involved with based on when they can be sure that development is over. It's two different things

 

[greenbird]

People under 25 have not fully developed the physiological elements of what could be considered informed decision-making, so how is it not understandable that someone might as a precaution just draw a line there?

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Never heard someone say an older employer shouldn't enter into an employment agreement with someone under 25 because their decision making isn't fully developed. When I got my first job at 19 working at a big chain store stocking produce, nobody told that middle-aged guy that he shouldn't hire me because I wasn't fully capable of making that life decision. Probably because this argument is arbitrarily applied due to long standing puritanical roots when it comes to anything involving sex or relationships, while at the same time abiding by a work to survive culture that promotes people jumping into that as early as possible. This doesn't even touch the numerous other things this argument is never applied to.

People tend to take issue with inconsistent thinking like that.

 

[Kalel114]

I think it's on an individual basis. Not everyone matures at the same rate. If you have common interests and both have the maturity to handle a relationship, then not creepy. I will say that if your conscience steered you to make a thread about it, than you probably already have you answer.

 

[HardTimesFamilyPride]

EDIT: Didn't mean to post. Just gonna say that I managed a team of 40+ mostly 17-25 year olds in a high stress retail/customer service environment so not interested in hypotheticals about how some stranger online wants to remove nuance in order to assume how I handled that situation

 

[Druffmaul]

It's not impossible for a 19 year old and a 28 year old to get together and have a perfectly healthy relationship. To make a judgement about two people you've never met and know nothing about them specifically, the only thing you have to go on is the legality of it. As long as you're not a sociopath or psychopath, you should be capable of knowing full well whether something you're doing is "creepy" or not.

 

[Wackamole]

It's not impossible for a 19 year old and a 28 year old to get together and have a perfectly healthy relationship. To make a judgement about two people you've never met and know nothing about them specifically, the only thing you have to go on is the legality of it. As long as you're not a sociopath or psychopath, you should be capable of knowing full well whether something you're doing is "creepy" or not.

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This. Not that hard if you actively take part in social life. You should be able to tell yourself.

 

[orochi91]

Nah, you're fine.

Both legal age, and consenting adults.

Do your thing, OP.

I've been on both sides of that equation, and had great experiences~

 

[janusff]

Yes it's creepy.

 

[BearPawB]

You are adults. As long as you are not in a position of authority over her (you teach/work/in any way in power over her) then I think you're fine

But also, look around at your friends and howd you feel if one of them was dating someone that age.

 

[waterpuppy]

I'm sorry what? This is taking your own privileged experiences and applying them to presumably all queer people?

'Pack it up queers the struggle is over!'

White liberals, when will you learn.

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Not at all what I meant or tried to say, sorry it came across that way. Was mostly trying to say that it's generally easier for some LGBT people to find other LGBT people today compared to like the 80s. But I can see that my choice of words was not exactly optimal.

 

[Wazzy]

Edit: decided to leave the thread, it's going in circles.

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Honestly it's for the best. I keep browsing and wanting to interject but realized we just had a huge amount of this thread support 18/19 year olds dating 14 year olds so that's when I noped the fuck out from engaging in here any further.

Not at all what I meant or tried to say, sorry it came across that way. Was mostly trying to say that it's generally easier for some LGBT people to find other LGBT people today compared to like the 80s. But I can see that my choice of words was not exactly optimal.

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I just want to say your wording was fine. It was very clear with the fact you wrote "people not having to hide the way they used to" and not "people don't have to hide anymore" so I wouldn't acknowledge the bullshit in that post.

 

[SubvertedTrope]

Not at all what I meant or tried to say, sorry it came across that way. Was mostly trying to say that it's generally easier for some LGBT people to find other LGBT people today compared to like the 80s. But I can see that my choice of words was not exactly optimal.

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All good, it's just that some queer people are a bit too eager to move past the oppression that fucks up our lives starting from childhood. I get it, I wish it was just a thing of the past but it's not and not everyone can just be out and about.

 

[Cerulean_skylark]

There are 24 year olds who have graduated law school and some of y'all are in here arguing that they lack the brain development to make informed sexual choices.

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25 isn't a hard and fast number.
And academics is not the same as "less vulnerable to being taken advantage of".

We're not even in this thread arguing about 24 year olds vs 25 year olds, we're talking about a 19 year old and a 28 year old.

 

[MatchaMouse]

It's definitely weird imo. They're still a teenager. Even the "half your age plus seven" thing doesn't seem to be some golden rule. I'm 29, and if I think about dating a 21/22 year old my brain instantly goes nope.

 

[Chemo]

No. You're both adults. If you're both into it, who gives a shit what anyone else thinks.

 

[Thorrgal]

Whether it's wrong or not is not something I have a strong opinion of. I just think that you should be very mindful of differences in both cognitive maturity and life experience when you're an adult nearing your thirties courting a literal teen. I can say for sure that I would never have entertained the thought of having a relationship with a 19 year old when I was in my late twenties.

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I think we're on the same page. I never did date someone in college after college but not ready to say someone else shouldn't do it, although they should acknowledge the issues involved. On that front I think the OP is certainly mindful of that and will take it into consideration. Thanks for clarifying further the prefrontal cortex part to me.

 

[Lunar Wolf]

19 year olds don't have a fully developed frontal lobe, you're not making decisions on equal terms, especially not emotionally charged decisions. Yes, it's pretty creepy and exploitative, even though it's legal.
Literally your brain is physically capable of making better decisions about your life.

That is why anyone below 23-24 is a child.

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This is going overboard with it where everyone below 25 is now a child. It's really infantilizing and patronizing.

Not a fully developed adult =/ child. They're young adults aka not fully developed adults so treat them as such.

Not to mention that there have been more studies done where it shows that brain development actually doesn't truly stop until you're in your 30's or 40's.

 

[HeyNay]

This is going overboard with it where everyone below 25 is now a child. It's really infantilizing and patronizing.

Child =/ not a fully developed adult. They're young adults aka not fully developed adults so treat them as such.

Not to mention that there have been more studies done where it shows that brain development actually doesn't truly stop until you're in your 30's or 40's.

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Everyone below 40 is a child.

 

[totofogo]

Depends where you are at in life and where she is at. Maturity differences and power imbalances could make or break the creepiness of this.

 

[Irishmantis]

Everyone below 40 is a child.

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I knew it!

Also obviously we not going to all come to a definite agreement the poll is basically 50/50

so I wouldn't be anxiously waiting for a mutual resolution on such a rich loaded question like this no matter what side of the poll you swing

but it is at least interesting to see all different arguments and counter points

 

[Royalan]

This discussion has run its course, and as such the thread will be locked. Take care.