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Is DUB vs SUB mostly English language argument? Thoughts on DUBs of different countries.
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Freeza is a classy lady with a rugged smoker's voice and you will never be able to convince me she's supposed to be a dude.
I have watched and rewatched all of Dragon Ball and yet this remains a thing for me.
But typically I will prefer the original dub due to the intent and lipsync timing.
There is 'but' with something like My Little Pony where the Dutch dub erases Applejack's southern accent (and the implications of it..) and the voices actually sound better to me. When I checked the original voices I couldn't believe how bad they sound. I suppose they are too stereotypical for me? Or maybe all the Flemish dubbers are just having more fun with it.
Any Dutch speaker here will recognize the infinite superiority of Flemish "Timon & Pumba". It's hilarious.
Either that or Asterix and Obelix. Which is probably the best known franchise to recieve good dubs in almost every language, to the point where they made it a thing in the movies themselves. ( Asterix saying 'welcome' in every language)
I have watched and rewatched all of Dragon Ball and yet this remains a thing for me.
But typically I will prefer the original dub due to the intent and lipsync timing.
There is 'but' with something like My Little Pony where the Dutch dub erases Applejack's southern accent (and the implications of it..) and the voices actually sound better to me. When I checked the original voices I couldn't believe how bad they sound. I suppose they are too stereotypical for me? Or maybe all the Flemish dubbers are just having more fun with it.
Any Dutch speaker here will recognize the infinite superiority of Flemish "Timon & Pumba". It's hilarious.
Either that or Asterix and Obelix. Which is probably the best known franchise to recieve good dubs in almost every language, to the point where they made it a thing in the movies themselves. ( Asterix saying 'welcome' in every language)
Theres a lot of subs only people now in Spain since the pirating era of tv shows.
We still have great dubbing most of the time which people enjoy.
I love watching a show in spanish if it has a good dub and then expriencing it in its original language also, or viceversa.
And there are spanish dubs that me and a lot of the audience prefer to the original english versions. Things like the simpsons or Disney's 2nd golden age dubs. Im also partial to the USA office in spanish, as all the characters have voices that work with the character, something i feel is missing from the original voices.
BTW we have like 4 schools of dubbing in Spain (we call school to the central hubs of dubbing in different spanish regions). The Catalonian (that also dubs in spanish apart from Catalan) and Madrid ones, that are the best by a mile. Then the Valencian one, that has some cool new voices but also a lot of mediocrity (though its good when they mix this guys with the ctalaonian studios for a good project), and then very far off the Vasque one, which is ABSOLUTE trash. They are usually used for reality tv docs and the like, the problem is, they are also sometimes used for some smaller cult shows and cartoons, becuase they are much cheaper to hire.
I also prefer no subs for english content in my case, subs are translated like shit most of the time even if they are official and not fan dubbed (netflix has some egrigious cases). They erase a lot of jokes, so people that dont undertand english and are watching it with subs becuase they think they are watching a superior product (and the worst people are the ones that go all high and mighty doing this), they are really not, they are just watching a VERY inferior version thats missing most of the content the authors intended to have. Funny because even dubs with bad voices here, that I cant stand, have better translations in the dubs than the subs. Community on Netflix for example, my second time watching with my grilfriend, had to use subs (becuase I hated the spanish voices in that one, vasque country dubbing school BTW) and holy shit, had to pause the video every 30 seconds becuase the subs were stripping all what made Community special.
Also the spanish translations for dubs on Disney movies are starting to lose A LOT of charm after Tangled (and feel somewhat like stilted translations), because of only subs people now asking for more exact translations of songs and a stuff, not noticing that what they enjoyed of the second golden age spanish dubs, was the absolute masterful localization of the script and songs alike. Frozen's and Moanas localizations are abdolsute mediocrity because of the new Disney "all has to be the same" law they are enforcing. Same with Netflix BTW.
So thanks only subs people for fucking with the work of people that actually understanded how to do the stuff.
We still have great dubbing most of the time which people enjoy.
I love watching a show in spanish if it has a good dub and then expriencing it in its original language also, or viceversa.
And there are spanish dubs that me and a lot of the audience prefer to the original english versions. Things like the simpsons or Disney's 2nd golden age dubs. Im also partial to the USA office in spanish, as all the characters have voices that work with the character, something i feel is missing from the original voices.
BTW we have like 4 schools of dubbing in Spain (we call school to the central hubs of dubbing in different spanish regions). The Catalonian (that also dubs in spanish apart from Catalan) and Madrid ones, that are the best by a mile. Then the Valencian one, that has some cool new voices but also a lot of mediocrity (though its good when they mix this guys with the ctalaonian studios for a good project), and then very far off the Vasque one, which is ABSOLUTE trash. They are usually used for reality tv docs and the like, the problem is, they are also sometimes used for some smaller cult shows and cartoons, becuase they are much cheaper to hire.
I also prefer no subs for english content in my case, subs are translated like shit most of the time even if they are official and not fan dubbed (netflix has some egrigious cases). They erase a lot of jokes, so people that dont undertand english and are watching it with subs becuase they think they are watching a superior product (and the worst people are the ones that go all high and mighty doing this), they are really not, they are just watching a VERY inferior version thats missing most of the content the authors intended to have. Funny because even dubs with bad voices here, that I cant stand, have better translations in the dubs than the subs. Community on Netflix for example, my second time watching with my grilfriend, had to use subs (becuase I hated the spanish voices in that one, vasque country dubbing school BTW) and holy shit, had to pause the video every 30 seconds becuase the subs were stripping all what made Community special.
Also the spanish translations for dubs on Disney movies are starting to lose A LOT of charm after Tangled (and feel somewhat like stilted translations), because of only subs people now asking for more exact translations of songs and a stuff, not noticing that what they enjoyed of the second golden age spanish dubs, was the absolute masterful localization of the script and songs alike. Frozen's and Moanas localizations are abdolsute mediocrity because of the new Disney "all has to be the same" law they are enforcing. Same with Netflix BTW.
So thanks only subs people for fucking with the work of people that actually understanded how to do the stuff.
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Norway and other nordic countries are strictly subtitles, regardless of original language. Dubbing is just not a thing that exists here at all, except for shows and movies for kids I guess. I suppose that is one of the reasons most people here are comfortable with english from young age.
Italy: pretty split opinions.
On one side you have people who say that watching in the original language is mandatory for a completely original immersion in the media. If you can't keep up/understand fully, ENG subs (if the product is in English) or ITA subs are ok. Some dubs are however godawful (all Studio Ghibli's dubs by Cannarsi, who was recently in a shitstorm over a new NGE dub that was later removed, most teenage-comedy stuff is also dubbed really poorly, like TBBT).
On the other side it's still a country where a lot of people still don't understand fluent English enough (there are still people in Uni being afraid of an English B2 course, so it's still present even in young generation), people who simply don't want to bother and even some that keep saying we have the best dubbers in the world and get mad if a game does not have an Italian language option for spoken stuff/menus (all movies are dubbed in Italian).
Almost noone will be against Italian subtitles, and a lot still prefer dubbed stuff.
I personally watch everything in the Original Language, if it's not a language I know or if it's in a dialect that's hard to understand I will use ENG/ITA subs depending on what's closest to the source. There are some combinations that work better than others (watched Dark in German with ENG subs, because they were closer to the original than ITA subs, but if you wanted to play FF:VIIR you'd either have to go Jap language with ITA subs or ENG/ENG as English subs were made for the English voice overs, whereas Italian subs were made for the OG voiceover)
It's... messy
On one side you have people who say that watching in the original language is mandatory for a completely original immersion in the media. If you can't keep up/understand fully, ENG subs (if the product is in English) or ITA subs are ok. Some dubs are however godawful (all Studio Ghibli's dubs by Cannarsi, who was recently in a shitstorm over a new NGE dub that was later removed, most teenage-comedy stuff is also dubbed really poorly, like TBBT).
On the other side it's still a country where a lot of people still don't understand fluent English enough (there are still people in Uni being afraid of an English B2 course, so it's still present even in young generation), people who simply don't want to bother and even some that keep saying we have the best dubbers in the world and get mad if a game does not have an Italian language option for spoken stuff/menus (all movies are dubbed in Italian).
Almost noone will be against Italian subtitles, and a lot still prefer dubbed stuff.
I personally watch everything in the Original Language, if it's not a language I know or if it's in a dialect that's hard to understand I will use ENG/ITA subs depending on what's closest to the source. There are some combinations that work better than others (watched Dark in German with ENG subs, because they were closer to the original than ITA subs, but if you wanted to play FF:VIIR you'd either have to go Jap language with ITA subs or ENG/ENG as English subs were made for the English voice overs, whereas Italian subs were made for the OG voiceover)
It's... messy
Yeah, dubs are terrible. Everytime I see one I cringe so hard. I did notice on my travels that you can see original versions in the bigger cities too. I've been to the cinema in Paris for instance and sometimes had the choice between dub and sub.
And a little anecdote about the double subs. First time I saw a subbed movie as a kid (I think it was Free Willy) I had a lot of trouble with it, because French is on top and Dutch on the bottom. I started reading the top first, without understanding it of course. By the time I got to the Dutch part it was already gone, lol.
The Star Wars prequels are way better with German dub. The characters are allowed to have actual emotions in our version, it's crazy!
I watch most TV shows and movies with German dub.
If we're talking about Anime, it's hit or miss. Sometimes the dub can be really good (Code Geass for example), some times it's horrendous (Soul Eater for example). I watch most anime with Japanese dub.
I watch most TV shows and movies with German dub.
If we're talking about Anime, it's hit or miss. Sometimes the dub can be really good (Code Geass for example), some times it's horrendous (Soul Eater for example). I watch most anime with Japanese dub.
I noticed that Filipino dubs of anime are pretty good actually. Granted, most of the stuff we get are in their original language/English subtitles, the little dubs we do get are pretty good.
Generally though, unless it's animation, I try to go for the original version since the dub tends to mess with the sound mix, and seeing the voices not completely sync to the lips is distracting. It's much better in animation, and I sometimes catch myself watching the English dub over the original version depending on what I'm watching.
Like, say, Howl's Moving Castle is so much more enjoyable to me in the English dub, but I can't for the life of me watch Spirited Away in English no matter how good the dub is, because it takes too much from Japanese folklore that the English dub just take me out.
Generally though, unless it's animation, I try to go for the original version since the dub tends to mess with the sound mix, and seeing the voices not completely sync to the lips is distracting. It's much better in animation, and I sometimes catch myself watching the English dub over the original version depending on what I'm watching.
Like, say, Howl's Moving Castle is so much more enjoyable to me in the English dub, but I can't for the life of me watch Spirited Away in English no matter how good the dub is, because it takes too much from Japanese folklore that the English dub just take me out.
In Belgium on the dutch side where I live, it's mostly always subbed unless it's a kid's show.
As a result I will always prefer the original language vs anything else. Movies, shows, series, anime, games, it doesn't matter. I'll always lean towards the original. Doesn't matter if I understand the original language or not.
From movies like Intouchables, La vita e bella, Stephen Chow movies to anime to whatever. I watched Simpsons in English, Death Note in Japanese, La vita e bella in Italian and Intouchables in French all on Flemish TV channels.
As a result I will always prefer the original language vs anything else. Movies, shows, series, anime, games, it doesn't matter. I'll always lean towards the original. Doesn't matter if I understand the original language or not.
From movies like Intouchables, La vita e bella, Stephen Chow movies to anime to whatever. I watched Simpsons in English, Death Note in Japanese, La vita e bella in Italian and Intouchables in French all on Flemish TV channels.
Germany dubs everything they air on TV and in cinemas, so I grew up with nothing but German dubs. Balkan countries usually don't though outside of shows for children, so whenever I spent my summers there it was pretty much only subs which sure seemed weird to little me lmao
After I had access to the internet & just more media in general in my teens, I started to consume more & more things in English with English subs (or whichever was the OG voice acting & English subs) as I always had a really easy time learning & understanding English & once I was properly fluid in it I never looked back as a lot of German localization is just.. not that great in my eyes. I do like watching older stuff in German though out of nostalgia mostly & I do watch things on TV & in cinemas in German as I have no other options living in a small town & not wanting to drive an hour & pay 3 times the price for a cinema that shows something with subs only.
After I had access to the internet & just more media in general in my teens, I started to consume more & more things in English with English subs (or whichever was the OG voice acting & English subs) as I always had a really easy time learning & understanding English & once I was properly fluid in it I never looked back as a lot of German localization is just.. not that great in my eyes. I do like watching older stuff in German though out of nostalgia mostly & I do watch things on TV & in cinemas in German as I have no other options living in a small town & not wanting to drive an hour & pay 3 times the price for a cinema that shows something with subs only.
The only reason people go for the dub in Brazil is either nostalgia or because you actually follow the work of the voice actors who do the dubbing. It's a bit different from voice actors in NA though since the majority of their work here is dubbing in movies/cartoons and anime. So it's very common to see people watch the original voices and then look for the dubbed version after so they can listen to the work of the voice actor.
This is it for me. It's how did I originally hear it. Sailor moon, DBZ, Ranma, caballeros del zodiaco, all in Spanish.
I cannot watch any new anime in Spanish anymore as it creates too much of a dissonance in my brain. But I can easily pick up an episode of Saint Seiya or Dragon Ball back in the day and not have any problems listening to the voices I heard when I was a kid.
It's mostly nostalgia, I believe.
It's mostly nostalgia, I believe.
I usually prefer the original language for anything.
Of course there are exceptions, like the latinamerican dub of Dragon Ball Z.
Of course there are exceptions, like the latinamerican dub of Dragon Ball Z.
While not everyone. I have 0 doubts that yes, there are totally people who prefer subs due to this. You can find them in plenty of places like /r/anime and such.
And also this is true too.
There is Japanese and then there's "Anime" Japanese and for a lot of people, they think Japanese speak exactly like they do in their animes. Without realizing that they're uh... acting.
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As for the main topic at hand. Yes, I do feel like dub vs subs is usually talking about the English dub but only due to the fact that we're on an English speaking board so...
Having good quality dubs is a privilege for a few languages to begin with. For many less used languages there are few available dubs and they're often not great. For anyone to dislike subs in that setting is a lot more uncommon since barely any shows with English language or whatever get dubbed anyway.
Italy and it's dub country here. Very few people bother with subtitles though things are changing with younger generations.
Dubs used to be pretty good but it's debatable how accurate they are since acting and translation is done to sound as "musical" as possible, so every character talks like a newscaster, so much so that the word "doppiaggese" (dubspeak) was coined.
Acting is good but very, very limited, with each actor seemingly choosing from a limited range of stock emotions often erasing any kind of nuance in the original. In the past decade, translations can be terrible, and sometimes you have to do a literal back-translation to English if you want to understand what they mean.
Actors and translators blame new guidelines that force them to work in much less time, often only using video of the lips of the actors they have to dub (seriously) in order to prevent leaks.
There are also very few voices available, so you'll only hear the same 20-ish voices over and over again: for example, up until the late 90s, one single voice actor dubbed De Niro, Pacino, Stallone and Hoffman. Nowadays even fewer actors are available.
Dubs used to be pretty good but it's debatable how accurate they are since acting and translation is done to sound as "musical" as possible, so every character talks like a newscaster, so much so that the word "doppiaggese" (dubspeak) was coined.
Acting is good but very, very limited, with each actor seemingly choosing from a limited range of stock emotions often erasing any kind of nuance in the original. In the past decade, translations can be terrible, and sometimes you have to do a literal back-translation to English if you want to understand what they mean.
Actors and translators blame new guidelines that force them to work in much less time, often only using video of the lips of the actors they have to dub (seriously) in order to prevent leaks.
There are also very few voices available, so you'll only hear the same 20-ish voices over and over again: for example, up until the late 90s, one single voice actor dubbed De Niro, Pacino, Stallone and Hoffman. Nowadays even fewer actors are available.
I keep getting some German ad about Captain Marvel on Disney Plus, and every time I see it, I'm blown away by how awful the dub is. It also doesn't fit at all.
Unless you speak the original language the show was made in, how can you tell if its a good quality (sub) or not?
That's what I don't understand about sub vs dub arguments. I watch both but I can't make a judgment on the quality of the sub. I'm actually more focused on reading the subtitles and watching the action vs listening to the audio to a large extent.
That's what I don't understand about sub vs dub arguments. I watch both but I can't make a judgment on the quality of the sub. I'm actually more focused on reading the subtitles and watching the action vs listening to the audio to a large extent.
Well, if some groups of fans are to be believed, Japanese voice actors are simply better. And that other languages don't really care about voice acting.
In English-speaking languages it's typically seen as an anime thing because that's the largest volume of foreign-language media consumed. But in e.g. Spain, the largest body of foreign media is precisely English media, which is always aired dubbed on TV and theaters.
That said, I still prefer subs in many cases, which is why services like Netflix where you're often given the choice are so nice to have.
That said, I still prefer subs in many cases, which is why services like Netflix where you're often given the choice are so nice to have.
It's generally not an issue of whether the dub or sub translations are more faithful, because both can be pretty off (although by nature, dubs need to match the character's visual vocalization to an extent, a restriction subs don't have). For me, the issues with dubs are:
- At least in Spain it's often the same handful of voice actors over and over in media, which gets samey and even distracting.
- Voice acting is acting, so live action shows become a mix of one person's "body" acting and another person's voice acting. Subbing is more "pure" in that you get the full performance of the original actor (this, again, only applies to live action).
- If you know the language (and, well, I know English, obviously, as well as a bit of Japanese), you can often notice wordplay or mistranslated things, which you would miss in a dub. Granted, at that point you probably need neither; for English shows I use Spanish subs mostly when watching them with my SO; otherwise I go with English subs.
I'd probably enjoy English dubs more if a greater variety of English-speaking accents and dialects was used. I realise the English-speaking world is quite fortunate to have the sheer amount of dubs it has, but nothing took me out of Little Witch Academia quicker than Laura Post as the British aristocrat Diana.
I just want Ash Ketchum to be a Geordie, is that too much to ask?!
I just want Ash Ketchum to be a Geordie, is that too much to ask?!
Im back in Spain and I hate anything thats dubbed to be honest. It seems like its the same 4 actors on rotation, theres no individuality to the voices and they sound fake as hell, they dont even try to sound natrural, more like robots who speak spanish.
Japanese VA's are better... at japanese anime. There are a lot of mannerisms and details to how dialogue is written and acted in Japanese that is just too different to most western languages to get a really faithful dub, especially in English since it's such a limited language in comparison (Portuguese is much richer for example).
But not only that, there's a bunch of cultural differences in how japanese actor convey exaggerated emotions and dialogue that doesn't work in english, and you can totally tell when the dub tries to replicate it to mixed results. It's no wonder the best dubs of anime usually are the ones that go in their own direction instead of trying to be faithful, but at that point it's not really the same experience as the original.
I grew up on German dubs and for movies they usually range from decent to great (they have gotten worse recently though). Sometimes so great I was later confused by reading that actor x supposedly gave a shit performance in that movie. The dub was so good it turned it into a very good performance. In those cases a dub can elevate a movie a lot.
Usually I prefer consuming English media natively now, but there are some exceptions. For example I refuse to rewatch Lord of the Rings in anything but German. The dub is that great with a very rich vocabulary of often forgotten German words I like a lot. It gives my ears pleasure listening to that dub. The Star Wars prequels are also infinitely better with the German dub. They are actually emotional at times.
Usually I prefer consuming English media natively now, but there are some exceptions. For example I refuse to rewatch Lord of the Rings in anything but German. The dub is that great with a very rich vocabulary of often forgotten German words I like a lot. It gives my ears pleasure listening to that dub. The Star Wars prequels are also infinitely better with the German dub. They are actually emotional at times.
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I've consumed japanese media like anime, movies and games for well over 20 years. I never learned the language, but by now I've picked up some frequently used terms like brother, mother and quite a few others. And everytime an original actor says "brother" in japanese and the subtitle reads the name of the character instead - I know it's a dubtitle. Or when a character screams "Aniki!" and the dubtitle reads "Watch out!".
And that's inherently worse than an actual subtitle that directly translates the original script.
With subtitles, you don't have to keep lip-synching in mind. Because of that, they can potentially be a lot more precise than a dub or dubtitles. So it sucks if a studio doesn't take advantage of that.
Apologize if I'm butting in here and am not welcome as I am a specifically English speaker but I've always felt that whatever makes it easy for you to understand the story is the best way of experiencing it.
Whether it's the language you're most fluent in or because you prefer a subtitled version's translation, what's most important is your enjoyment.
My son reads very slow as he's autistic and so we watch dubbed versions together, as he doesn't mind the quality of voices and I prefer subs as I feel the original actors stake a claim in the work and give the best performances.
Whether it's the language you're most fluent in or because you prefer a subtitled version's translation, what's most important is your enjoyment.
My son reads very slow as he's autistic and so we watch dubbed versions together, as he doesn't mind the quality of voices and I prefer subs as I feel the original actors stake a claim in the work and give the best performances.
You can see every movie subbed in Paris thankfully, even children movies. Every theater chains show both dubbed and subbed version here.
Nope, they are usually okay at best, I've rarely heard an english dub I genuinely liked and I'm not a snob who only watches anime subbed. It's weird because there are so many very talented voice actors in america but they seem to do american made cartoons only. When I watch american cartoons I hear characters speak, when I watch american dubbed anime I hear actors act, there's a disconnect and I can't get over it. Maybe it's not the actors, maybe it's bad writing and direction but the end result is the same, the dub isn't very good.
Of course american dubs are masterpieces compared to this.
I'm a Gavriov dub only kind of guy. It sucks because it's almost impossible to find anyone doing Gavrilov dubs in english, let alone for anime.
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French Canadian perspective here.
In Quebec, everything is dubbed. Sub are pretty rare. That said, pretty much everything is also available in English. Most people will watch the dubbed version.
The dub quality is usually very good. While there is some that are dubbed in France, a lot is done Quebec. There is a very active translation industry.
I prefer to watch in English if that was the original language of the media. If it was from another language then I'll watch the better acted translation.
I found the Simpson remark from the France French relevant as there is a Quebec version of the Simpson too.
'
Quebec version
France version
In Quebec, everything is dubbed. Sub are pretty rare. That said, pretty much everything is also available in English. Most people will watch the dubbed version.
The dub quality is usually very good. While there is some that are dubbed in France, a lot is done Quebec. There is a very active translation industry.
I prefer to watch in English if that was the original language of the media. If it was from another language then I'll watch the better acted translation.
I found the Simpson remark from the France French relevant as there is a Quebec version of the Simpson too.
'
Quebec version
France version
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OP
OP
Im not familiar with the show but hey they did Rick and Morty so I guess they can do American Humor.
Dude you sure? (I'm joking)
Thats an intersting point how DUBs are handling live media which has bad acting? Not just Star wars prequels. Also how it looks for you guys? Like you see Original Actor does not put enough work then VO Dub?I wonder if VO dubs have to match bad acting as well/
Oh no its no like English Speakers are not welcomed just English Media is an interesting place since most countries consume English Media though DUBs first then learn English and accept English DB of foreign media.
I want to create another thread how Language perception has view on quality.
GOD DAMN he still around? Thats such hit from the past WOW.
My biggest "Thats how Goku sounds?" moment was Shrek, seriously am I alone who thinks that Shrek's original VO does not fit character's model?
In RUS is so much better for me in fact it is argued that Russian DUB for Shrek actually superior, wonder about other's languages
Also question to everyone do you have dub or voice over of Youtuber's? There are Russian DUBs of Gigguks Anime videos which I found cool and apparently Gigguk gave his blessing for this but now this channels does Russian dub for his Anime podcast which around 2 hours, its still high quality since its 3 different VO and video is Eidted with Russian Characters but I have to say for some reason seeing this for Youtube content IS WEIRD.
only children's media is dubbed here in sweden
like, pretty much anything targeted at people older than 8 is subbed
(in the case of games, they generally don't have even subs in swedish, since pretty much everyone over 10 can understand english)
like, pretty much anything targeted at people older than 8 is subbed
(in the case of games, they generally don't have even subs in swedish, since pretty much everyone over 10 can understand english)
There's a few examples where I prefer DUB over SUB
- Cowbow Bebop; the dub is actually very good and fits better with the western characters
- JoJo; over the top crazy dub/accents goes well with over the top crazy animation
- Dragon Ball Z; high pitched buzzy Goku just sounds so strange to me
- Cowbow Bebop; the dub is actually very good and fits better with the western characters
- JoJo; over the top crazy dub/accents goes well with over the top crazy animation
- Dragon Ball Z; high pitched buzzy Goku just sounds so strange to me