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Is Damon Lindelof the Hideo Kojima of television?

Blue Skies

Blue Skies

Banned
Mar 27, 2019
9,224
I feel like they've both made "theme heavy" works of art, with Lost and Metal Gear Solid grabbing mainstream popularity with their confusing narratives, wide array of characters, and "more questions than answers" storytelling style, and then following up those creations with less popular more artsy masterpieces, The Leftovers and Death Stranding. The "love it or hate it" split is basically identical for these properties. Also, without spoiling much, they deal with some of the same issues in both properties.

now Lindelof has "Watchmen" which, if you don't know much about it, go read or watch the graphic novel, or even Zach Snyder's adaptation (which is great and nearly a page to screen adaptation as far as plot goes) and then jump in blind. Maybe listen to the soundtrack first, it'll hype you up.

thoughts?
 
Eidan

Eidan

Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
8,559
Haha yeah Kojima is not on Lindelof's level, but I understand the general comparison I suppose.
 
coma

coma

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,576
They both come up with interesting premises and then fail miserably in execution, so maybe?

I'll withhold judgement on Watchmen until the end of the season at least.
 
MoosetheMark

MoosetheMark

Member
May 3, 2019
690
I don't think it's entirely fair to compare their writing on a one to one basis because we're judging Kojima on awkward overly literal translations. For all I know his stuff sounds great and perfectly natural to a Japanese speaker.
 
BLEEN

BLEEN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,872
Cool. A Lindelof thread. Surprised no one shat on him yet lol

Lindelof is the man, if only for The Leftovers.

Edit* spoke too soon of course
 
OP
OP
Blue Skies

Blue Skies

Banned
Mar 27, 2019
9,224
I agree that Kojima isn't as great a writer, I guess I mean more in that they occupy the same space in their respective fields
 
Meg Cherry

Meg Cherry

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Oct 25, 2017
7,264
Seattle, WA
Muse is the Hideo Kojima of music. Technically impressive, with world-class spectacle - but deep in themes and subtext that really don't add up.

Best work is about 15 years behind them.
 
Osan912

Osan912

Avenger
Sep 22, 2018
507
Mushroomer25 said:
Listening to other people isn't a fault of a good writer.
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Yeah but I'm under the impression Kojima does it all by himself, you can't tell me Lindeolf is fully aware of the black experience in watchmen and wrote it all by himself. That sort of erasure of the black writers in the room kinda bugs me that the attribution goes squarely to him only.
 
Meg Cherry

Meg Cherry

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,264
Seattle, WA
Osan912 said:
Yeah but I'm under the impression Kojima does it all by himself, you can't tell me Lindeolf is fully aware of the black experience in watchmen and wrote it all by himself. That sort of erasure of the black writers in the room kinda bugs me that the attribution goes squarely to him only.
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It doesn't, though. Watchmen isn't even branded as "A Damon Lindeolf Show" as Kojima does with his projects. He's the showrunner & did most of the pre-release press - but since then, it kind feels like he's put more of the focus on other creatives for the project.
 
Tribal_Cult

Tribal_Cult

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
3,548
I mean, they have a similar career trajectory. I can see what you're saying.
Both started out with an incredibly succesful, iconic franchise and pioneered landmarks for their media. Both their series spiraled down into mediocrity though and became overbloated, overstaying their welcome and ending on a sour note. Of course I'm talking about Lost and Metal Gear Solid.
Both then directed a much smaller in scope and reception series for just a few installments, which is still highly regarded in its entirety by the few who saw/played it (Leftovers and Zone of the Enders).
Now they both made an apparently one-off art house experiment with various degrees of reception, but still both are considered as interesting and brave (Death Stranding and Watchmen).

They are of course different medias so they cannot easily compare, of course Lindelof writes better than Kojima but writing is on two different levels of importance in their media.
I can see your point, but in the end I don't see how does it matter lol.
 
sredgrin

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
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Oct 27, 2017
12,276
Kojima is maybe comparable to Lindelof's movie work.

TV wise Lindelof is much better.

Though I don't know exactly how much creative control he's had in the movies (probably not nearly as much as on TV when he has to play second fiddle to Ridley Scott's directing).
 
efr

efr

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Jun 19, 2019
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No. Kojima finishes projects and doesnt use "lol time travel" as an ending. Also, he has written two projects of his own ideas, not ride coattails of JJ Abrams or previously created IP.
 
Hella

Hella

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Oct 27, 2017
23,397
Hideo Kojima would need an editor (and 'no' man) before this comparison can even begin to be made.
 
caliph95

caliph95

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Oct 25, 2017
35,160
That's kinda insulting to Lindelof lol he's an amazing writer

He's not the only theme heavy writer also
 
Azzanadra

Azzanadra

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Oct 25, 2017
3,804
Canada
Kojima's games are still fun to play though, even in their writing low-points.

Don't think I would ever recommend anything by Lindelof to anyone ever, though I haven't seen Leftovers or Watchmen. Based on his comments about ASOIAF, he seems generally unpleasant.
 
Tribal_Cult

Tribal_Cult

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
3,548
efr said:
No. Kojima finishes projects and doesnt use "lol time travel" as an ending. Also, he has written two projects of his own ideas, not ride coattails of JJ Abrams or previously created IP.
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Finishes projects? lol Have you played the Phantom Pain?

Also lol time travel = lol Liquid possessing Ocelot

Both stories ended up becoming extremely stupid
 
lazybones18

lazybones18

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Oct 25, 2017
17,339
Is there a TV version of Geoff Keighly that talks about Lindelof day and night like they're best friends or something? I don't think so!
 

Deleted member 60295

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Sep 28, 2019
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Kojima was never a good writer. His best written games (MGS 1-3) were all written by that other guy. Thank god Death Stranding apparently tells a really good story through the gameplay itself, because otherwise it wouldn't be resonating so strongly with so many people.
 
Daniel Westlake

Daniel Westlake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,165
efr said:
No. Kojima finishes projects and doesnt use "lol time travel" as an ending. Also, he has written two projects of his own ideas, not ride coattails of JJ Abrams or previously created IP.
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Kojima is such a lazy writer he literally gave up on explaining some concepts and actually just leaned in on magic nanotechnology

He's not even a top-tier writer in the games industry
 
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