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UltimateHigh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,500
There's a reason CS:GO, one of the most played games in the world, only had two short lived console ports two generations ago and isn't coming to console again any time soon. Valorant applies here too. Hell, it's not particularly popular but Quake: Champions is another case.

PC and console shooters are still distinct beasts.

CS's aiming was off on console, worse than a lot of other console games, and ran at 30fps. They didn't do a great job fine tuning it.

Its perfectly possible to make that feel okay on sticks.

(and you can add mouse keyboard support anyways,you could even do cross play, separated by input. call of duty does it just fine)
 
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Rosenkrantz

Rosenkrantz

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,917
The game ran at 30fps, was uglier than its 60fps counterparts, and the controls felt straight out of PS2 era. It was such a fundamentally terrible port that I don't see update policies having much to do with it.
The original release wasn't even made by Valve, and it was a disaster on PC as well, then Valve stepped up and fixed the game, updates have everything to do with the state of the game.
 

Kuosi

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,366
Finland
I mean Overwatch has a PC version and a Console version that are different from each other... the typical input device obviously plays part in the game design
 

Edge

A King's Landing
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,012
Celle, Germany
Isn't CODs playerbase like 80% on console? That's at least what it was like 10-12 years ago where COD was basically non existent on PC in comparison to Console with MW2/BO.
 
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Rosenkrantz

Rosenkrantz

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,917
Isn't CODs playerbase like 80% on console? That's at least what it was like 10-12 years ago where COD was basically non existent on PC in comparison to Console with MW2/BO.
CoD lost a lot of userbase after MW2, they probably still sell decently, but the franchise certainly way smaller on PC.
 

Sande

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,977
The original release wasn't even made by Valve, and it was a disaster on PC as well, then Valve stepped up and fixed the game, updates have everything to do with the state of the game.
My point is that if you release a game basically dead on arrival, I don't think the main reason it failed is update costs. Whatever the PC version was at the time, console versions were much, much worse.

And again, the discussion is about whether CS could work (and be successful) on consoles. Releasing a terrible port and abandoning it because updates cost money is not proof of anything in that regard.
 

tyfon

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,680
Norway
I distinctly remember when one iteration of COD long time ago started to not support lean on PC since it was difficult to play with that on console.
The game director just came out and said "It's not designed for lean" :p
I think it was the same time they got rid of dedicated servers and ping went from an average of maybe 20-30 to 150+.

It was the nail in the coffin for PC FPS games for me, I didn't have a console at the time.
I can't deal with FPS on console either without KB/M. And no gyro doesn't replace that :p
 

White Glint

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,617
I bought the DS4 back button attachment pretty much just for doom eternal and GT Sport and it's been worth every penny. Makes those games just way more fun to play.
 

icecold1983

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,243
PC focused FPS design died a long time ago. And no, PC gamers arent any better or more skilled than console gamers outside of that extreme top end of pros/youtube stars. People on controller do just fine in Overwatch and Doom Eternal.
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,991
Nonsense this and any other FPS works just fine on a controller.
Just look at the reaction to Prey (2017) on consoles.
There were huge numbers of complaints about the combat/aiming "being bad" and the enemies being "too annoying" because the mimics were fast, small, and difficult for people to hit when using a controller.
It was bad enough that they ended up patching the game to change the enemy behavior.

The issue is not high-level play; it's what the average player is capable of handling.
Games are built differently when they are made for a controller.

CS's aiming was off on console, worse than a lot of other console games, and ran at 30fps. They didn't do a great job fine tuning it.
Its perfectly possible to make that feel okay on sticks.
I can't speak to CSGO specifically, but most of the time when a game "feels bad" on controllers it's because they don't have huge amounts of auto-aim guiding it for you.
 

Deleted member 28523

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
2,911
there's a reason quake champions isnt consoles.

the big problem is that pc only shooters are all small indie titles. and they can't really push the medium forward. so many cool ideas you could do with fps mouse and keyboard games.
 

PixelatedDonut

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,966
Philly ❤️
PC focused FPS design died a long time ago. And no, PC gamers arent any better or more skilled than console gamers outside of that extreme top end of pros/youtube stars. People on controller do just fine in Overwatch and Doom Eternal.
Has anyone said that? Say something is designed for or plays better with m&kb, doesn't mean controllers are for trash noobs, but for some reason people are acting like thats what being said.
And unless you're a console player saying PC focus fps deign is dead is extremely out of touch.
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,678
Just look at the reaction to Prey (2017) on consoles.
There were huge numbers of complaints about the combat/aiming "being bad" and the enemies being "too annoying" because the mimics were fast, small, and difficult for people to hit when using a controller.
It was bad enough that they ended up patching the game to change the enemy behavior.

The issue is not high-level play; it's what the average player is capable of handling.
Games are built differently when they are made for a controller.


I can't speak to CSGO specifically, but most of the time when a game "feels bad" on controllers it's because they don't have huge amounts of auto-aim guiding it for you.

yeah, there were loads of examples of FPS games like this, That simply felt like they mouse was direct mapped to a pad with little tuning or consideration . they were so difficult to handle next day Halo.
It was really common in the PS2/Xbox days and even during Ps360 times.
 

eXistor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,274
My wrist sucks so I can't really properly play M+K without it hurting after 5 minutes, so I'm kinda stuck with playing with a controller on PC. I recently played Dusk without much problems on lower difficulties (I'm not looking for a challenge, so I was gonna put it on Easy anyway).

Still, I wish I could play M+K again, but it's not in the cards.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,457
I just know I have a really hard time playing FPS on console with a controller. Everything like turning and such feels slower and harder for me and my aim is trash lol. IIRC isn't the PC version of Overwatch somewhat different than the console version?
 

icecold1983

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,243
Has anyone said that? Say something is designed for or plays better with m&kb, doesn't mean controllers are for trash noobs, but for some reason people are acting like thats what being said.
And unless you're a console player saying PC focus fps deign is dead is extremely out of touch.
Its certainly been implied several times.
"You wont have much fun in x game with a controller"
"Id like to see someone with a controller beat x boss"
"The fun is being skilled which you cant do with a controller"
 

Scarf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
402
Just look at the reaction to Prey (2017) on consoles.
There were huge numbers of complaints about the combat/aiming "being bad" and the enemies being "too annoying" because the mimics were fast, small, and difficult for people to hit when using a controller.
It was bad enough that they ended up patching the game to change the enemy behavior.

The issue is not high-level play; it's what the average player is capable of handling.
Games are built differently when they are made for a controller.


I can't speak to CSGO specifically, but most of the time when a game "feels bad" on controllers it's because they don't have huge amounts of auto-aim guiding it for you.

Prey has one of the worst controller aiming in the recent times. Couldn't play that game more than an hour. Horrible input lag, insane deadzones, slow sensitivity, etc. Holy shit was that game bad to play on a controller.

For me, when a game "feels bad" on a controller, it has big deadzones, horrible response curve (linear is the way to go), slow sensitivity and aim acceleration that you can't turn off. Auto aim doesn't matter that much.

There are only a few FPS games with actually decent advanced controller settings: Apex Legends and Titanfall 2 being the gold standard.
 

Crowh

Member
Nov 20, 2017
333
I used to be really damn good at BF3 on PS3, but now that I've been like 99% PC since 2013 I can't play with a controller to save my life, I recently tried BF1 on PS5 thanks to PS Plus and I couldn't hit anyone lol while on PC I'm always like top 5 in the scoreboard on my team, pretty sad realization to say at the very least lol
 

PixelatedDonut

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,966
Philly ❤️
Reading, i suggest you try it.
Come on be an adult, no one is saying that. Like at least give one example, then maybe someone could help you with your misunderstanding. M&kb and gyro allow for better accuracy, and some games you need better better accuracy. Saying you need auto aim with controllers isn't saying PC gamers are better, but theres a reason its on by default.
 

icecold1983

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,243
Come on be an adult, no one is saying that. Like at least give one example, then maybe someone could help you with your misunderstanding. M&kb and gyro allow for better accuracy, and some games you need better better accuracy. Saying you need auto aim with controllers isn't saying PC gamers are better, but theres a reason its on by default.
So what are posts 9, 17 and 33 saying?
 

PixelatedDonut

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,966
Philly ❤️
So what are posts 9, 17 and 33 saying?
post 9 said in order to play a PC centric fps you need auto aim, most people would agree and use auto aim.
post 17 names hard bosses in a game without full controller support
post 33 says doom eternal plays best with m&kb, which isn't crazy and has been one of the complaints about the game.

idk, you're getting offended over nothing.
We've had threads about console players not wanting to play agianst PC players in crossplay games because of M&kb, most PC players use both for gaming depending on the game.
 

Adrifi

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jan 5, 2019
3,466
the Spanish Basque Country
Ah that's true.

And weird.
It really is weird it's still console exclusive, doesn't make sense. They should port it to PC before Infinite comes out especially considering how fucking heavy and large the Halo lore is, people on PC will play Infinite and won't understand a fucking thing.

But they still have to port Forza Horizon, Fable 2 and others to Steam, too.
 

UltimateHigh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,500
Just look at the reaction to Prey (2017) on consoles.
There were huge numbers of complaints about the combat/aiming "being bad" and the enemies being "too annoying" because the mimics were fast, small, and difficult for people to hit when using a controller.
It was bad enough that they ended up patching the game to change the enemy behavior.

The issue is not high-level play; it's what the average player is capable of handling.
Games are built differently when they are made for a controller.


I can't speak to CSGO specifically, but most of the time when a game "feels bad" on controllers it's because they don't have huge amounts of auto-aim guiding it for you.

deadzone, aim acceleration, performance issues and input lag etc... are very much a thing that destroys feel especially in older titles.


Well as far as I know the best multiplayer FPS this gen is console exclusive.

most wouldn't agree... but I would and it still had a whole lot of room for improvement.

(along with the first few months of apex)
 
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astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,887
I think it's very clear when a shooter is designed with consoel as well as PC in mind, mostly for FPS.

PC focused shooters have a snappier, fast paced precision to them. Games like Destiny have a slower, steadier rhythm.

I think Doom Eternal is cealry designed with PC M&KB play first in mind. It will work on console/game pad, but the foundation of its design is around precision moves made at high speed which is something gamepads are not build for.
 

Rental

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,659
Plenty of fps don't see a console version due to the complex button mapping and play style. I highly doubt games like Squad or Tarkov could ever be made for a controller without altering the overall way they play.
 

Deleted member 73264

User requested account closure
Banned
Jun 28, 2020
201
I think Doom Eternal is cealry designed with PC M&KB play first in mind. It will work on console/game pad, but the foundation of its design is around precision moves made at high speed which is something gamepads are not build for.

It's clearly not designed for left-handed mouse users though - the input scheme is a mess if you're trying to use arrow keys instead of wasd (it's kind of a mess regardless). I'd rather play it on controller just for that reason.
 

Adrifi

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jan 5, 2019
3,466
the Spanish Basque Country
deadzone, aim acceleration, performance issues and input lag etc... are very much a thing that destroys feel especially in older titles.




most wouldn't agree... but I would and it still had a whole lot of room for improvement.

(along with the first few months of apex)
Most people who have played Halo 5 do agree that the multiplayer is one of the best in the franchise and I'm so glad, because it really is.
 

Oreoleo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,946
Ohio
There isn't as much of a distinction anymore, in my mind. Level design in console FPS has come a long way compared to, like, 2003, which I think has always been the biggest difference.

Honestly, nowadays I feel like the "console FPS" is actually TPS games now. God of War, Last of Us, Uncharted, Gears, and on and on and on. Those games are almost ALWAYS 'console first' in design.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,070
Counter Strike on the 36O was extremely popular game back in the day and always had tons of players on. The aiming was fine for console back then, even without cheating devices
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,541
I would say only Quake style games are truly PC only and even they can work on a console. For CS / Valorant you just need a precision aim toggle that's basically ADS without ADS, but I guess they're not even interested in chasing a console audience anyway.


"CS can't work on a console" is such a self-fulfilling prophecy. They think it's not happening so they release a terrible port with little fanfare which obviously fails. Maybe it wouldn't find an audience even if they actually gave it a shot, but they definitely didn't with CSGO.
While the games are wildly different, I think the massive success Siege became on consoles is proof that that there's an audience on console for slower, more tactical FPS games than COD, Overwatch and the likes. I'd still say it'd need to be a CS game tailored to consoles rather than just a basic port, but it could be done.
 

Okii

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,189
Isn't CODs playerbase like 80% on console? That's at least what it was like 10-12 years ago where COD was basically non existent on PC in comparison to Console with MW2/BO.
It's all crossplay now so it doesn't really matter. Every match I play it's a mix of all 3.
 

antitrop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,577
I guess the only real difference is the surge of 90s-inspired "boomer shooters" on PC in the last few years, otherwise the genres have pretty much merged thanks to the influence of Call of Duty.
 

Nahual Amini

Member
Oct 30, 2017
47
Doom Eternal plays vastly better on keyboard and mouse to the point where it feels like a different game on a traditional controller. Do not get me wrong, you can beat the game with a controller, but you will not be particularly skilled by the time you beat it your first time around, which is unfortunate since much of the enjoyment of the game is derived from the feeling of being skilled.

That's not true, anyone capable of beating the game can return to the first level and see their skills improved.

If nobody playing on a controller could get "particularly skilled", you wouldn't have people beating the game on Ultra-Nightmare. Personally, I'm on Taras Nabad on my Ultra-Nightmare run.

You will get better at FPS after finishing Doom Eternal, regardless of input method.
 

ray_caster

Member
Nov 7, 2017
663
That's not true, anyone capable of beating the game can return to the first level and see their skills improved.

If nobody playing on a controller could get "particularly skilled", you wouldn't have people beating the game on Ultra-Nightmare. Personally, I'm on Taras Nabad on my Ultra-Nightmare run.

You will get better at FPS after finishing Doom Eternal, regardless of input method.
You misunderstand. I did not say skills would not improve as time spent in with Eternal increases, nor did I say getting skilled at the game with a controller is impossible.

The word "particularly" in this context refers to comparative skill levels having beaten the game myself once on PC with keyboard and mouse and once on console with a standard controller. At the end of my first playthrough with a controller I could not do half the things I could with keyboard and mouse given approximately the same amount of time spent with the game via the latter input method.
 

Good4Squat

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
3,148
I think it's very clear when a shooter is designed with consoel as well as PC in mind, mostly for FPS.

PC focused shooters have a snappier, fast paced precision to them. Games like Destiny have a slower, steadier rhythm.

I think Doom Eternal is cealry designed with PC M&KB play first in mind. It will work on console/game pad, but the foundation of its design is around precision moves made at high speed which is something gamepads are not build for.
This post pretty much nails my feelings on the subject.
 

Deleted member 46804

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 17, 2018
4,129
Just look at the reaction to Prey (2017) on consoles.
There were huge numbers of complaints about the combat/aiming "being bad" and the enemies being "too annoying" because the mimics were fast, small, and difficult for people to hit when using a controller.
It was bad enough that they ended up patching the game to change the enemy behavior.

The issue is not high-level play; it's what the average player is capable of handling.
Games are built differently when they are made for a controller.
Prey had notoriously bad input latency on both consoles and felt like shit. That has nothing to do with it being a FPS on console. For the record I bought Prey day one and never had a problem with playing it although you could definitely feel the sluggish controls.
 

Alvis

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,223
Spain
Yes, PC FPS design is still very distinct from what works on consoles. You're not going to have a lot of fun playing Ultrakill on a controller without heavy auto aim or gyro assist, for example.

I need this game. Thanks for letting me know of its existence
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,991
Prey had notoriously bad input latency on both consoles and felt like shit. That has nothing to do with it being a FPS on console. For the record I bought Prey day one and never had a problem with playing it although you could definitely feel the sluggish controls.
My point about Prey was that they felt the need to change enemy behavior to make them easier to hit.
I had forgotten that it also had latency issues with the console versions, but the point still stands that they felt they had to alter the enemy behavior to make them easier to hit with a controller - which still affected the PC version of the game.