Well, yeah. Most games only offer illusion of choice. Even the best of them.
I don't think I have ever seen a JRPG do it since besides Nocturne but that was mostly deciding on which bosses you wanted to fight.
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Is Chrono Cross fixable? (Open Spoilers)
- Thread starter Deleted member 43657
- Start date
Well, yeah. Most games only offer illusion of choice. Even the best of them.
I don't think I have ever seen a JRPG do it since besides Nocturne but that was mostly deciding on which bosses you wanted to fight.
Well how else would you describe coming in to childishly mock someone for not liking a video game?
Chrono Cross is one of my favorite games of all time. Unfortunately, unlike the PS1 FF games, I don't believe there is a PC version, so I doubt we ever get a remaster. Would be great though.
Graphics, music, cut scenes all rival the best of the era on PS1.
Multiple endings, lots of characters to acquire (similar to Suikoden in that regard), multiple story paths to take throughout the game.
Edit
Off topic, but have any of you guys noticed how similar Cammy's standing animation is in SFV to Kid in Chrono Cross?
Graphics, music, cut scenes all rival the best of the era on PS1.
Multiple endings, lots of characters to acquire (similar to Suikoden in that regard), multiple story paths to take throughout the game.
Edit
Off topic, but have any of you guys noticed how similar Cammy's standing animation is in SFV to Kid in Chrono Cross?
but chrono cross is so much worse than most jrpgs in that respect, because (A) player choices don't actually matter because, if, say, you tell kid to sod off every time you see her on disc 1, she still walks on screen and says what she'd say if she was in the party anyway, and (B) so much of the game's narrative hinges on serge wanting to help kid, it makes most of serge's actions on disc 1 completely nonsensical if the player has ducked her at every chance.
I didn't mock anyone for not liking a game. I don't like lots of games. Shadow of the Colossus is incredibly popular, but also incredibly boring to me. Mock me for that, I guess.
If I'm mocking anything, it's the presumptuous notion that not liking a game means it is somehow broken. I'm not about to suggest that SotC is broken just because I don't like it. I just... don't like it.
I mean, unless we're working under the assumption that because nothing can ever be perfect, everything can be... "fixed". Which, well, it's true, in a way, but also absurd. That's a path I ain't gonna even consider walking down. It'll never end.
Wrong.
It makes sense with this recurring dream that Serge keeps having during disc 1.
Then choose to vocalize that belief without doing this:
Not a good look, my dude.
Agreed with till my last breath. It is my favorite video game and for good reason.
Fixed huh...
As someone who doesn't care for Chrono Cross, the changes it would need to make to fix my issues with it would require heavy rewrites to the point it isn't even the same game anymore.
Which wouldn't be unprecedented, Cross is a reimagining of Radical Dreamers after all.
But I can't really say I'm all that interested Square taking a third shot at Serge and Kid in the small chance I might care for them this time, neither am I interested in seeing Cross fans lose what they care about.
If the Chrono series returns one day, I just want the Dream Team back and for the game to be its own thing.
As someone who doesn't care for Chrono Cross, the changes it would need to make to fix my issues with it would require heavy rewrites to the point it isn't even the same game anymore.
Which wouldn't be unprecedented, Cross is a reimagining of Radical Dreamers after all.
But I can't really say I'm all that interested Square taking a third shot at Serge and Kid in the small chance I might care for them this time, neither am I interested in seeing Cross fans lose what they care about.
If the Chrono series returns one day, I just want the Dream Team back and for the game to be its own thing.
I do plan on replaying this game soon. But I don't think that's true. Kid does show up many times even if she isn't in the party, but she makes clear referrence to you not wanting to travel with her. During the last bit of the game she even has a special comment I think about not taking no for an answer this time.
The amount of effort put into downplaying what Cross has tried to achieve is staggering. Cross has more meaningful player choices than Chrono Trigger too so I don't even know where the argument is coming from that it is doing much worse when it is already doing much better than "the best jrpg of all time"
OP
OP
I would like to reiterate that I do like this game very much. It's one of the biggest reasons why I can't bring myself to unplug my PS3 (I have it as a PS1 Classic download).
I apologize for not making this clear in the original post. I'd like to see this game made again. Because while I do like it, I think it has elements that could be improved. Chief among these is the presentation of the story. I contend that while the central conceit of the game is quite interesting, the execution of its narrative is done poorly. I say this because the story is nigh un-understandable within the context of playing the game.
That said, the word "fixable" is used here to acknowledge that if there were a remaster or remake of this game, is it possible to present the narrative in a way that would make the story understandable? I'd argue that at its worst, the story that CC is attempting to tell is convoluted.
I understand that people are passionate about CT; as am I, but I can enjoy something while still being critical of it.
I hope that helps clear things up!
I didn't personally like all the characters, but wouldn't mind them sticking around.
What does need fixing are all its technical problems. Sadly Squenix seems more than happy to leave their games with embarrassing framerates when they port or remaster them. 15 FPS wasn't acceptable at the time and it would be insulting today.
Which means they would absolutely ship it running the same.
What does need fixing are all its technical problems. Sadly Squenix seems more than happy to leave their games with embarrassing framerates when they port or remaster them. 15 FPS wasn't acceptable at the time and it would be insulting today.
Which means they would absolutely ship it running the same.
Nor is starting a thread on the basis that a game is broken simply because there are things they don't like about it.
Awkward~~~
I don't believe the story is... Not understandable. Complexity isn't necessarily convolution. There's a lot to it, but that doesn't mean they're doing something wrong.
I also dislike the overwhelming sentiment in gaming culture that everything had to be easy to follow. You see it everywhere. I think that maybe, like almost every PS1 rpg, the game could probably do with a relocalization, but I wouldn't go about rewriting it from the ground up any time soon.
I think you've made your actual position much more clear as the thread went on, but the clickbait thread title did you no good will. >_> I don't agree with you overall, but hey.
I dare to say that Chrono Cross doesn't need any fix.
BUT Chrono Cross isn't Chrono Trigger. And that, in my opinion, it's the biggest problem of the game.
It's not like that the game would magically explain the nuances between Linx, Serge, Lucca, FATE, the timeline in 65.000.000 BC till 2300 AD or even the Dream Devourer in your face. Not even Radical Dreamers does that.
So, both games are Masterpieces, but together, it's pretty obvious that Chrono Trigger is Iron Man 2008, while Chrono Cross is Captain America: The Winter Soldier.
BUT Chrono Cross isn't Chrono Trigger. And that, in my opinion, it's the biggest problem of the game.
It's not like that the game would magically explain the nuances between Linx, Serge, Lucca, FATE, the timeline in 65.000.000 BC till 2300 AD or even the Dream Devourer in your face. Not even Radical Dreamers does that.
So, both games are Masterpieces, but together, it's pretty obvious that Chrono Trigger is Iron Man 2008, while Chrono Cross is Captain America: The Winter Soldier.
Rename it Dimension Carousel W or some shit so it can stop being associated with Chrono Trigger and maybe I'll stop disliking it so much
It's a good game that has one of the all-time best OSTs, but I find that it suffers from the same things that were common to many RPGs in the post-FF7 era, where overall pacing was slower, combat took longer due to it being more cinematic in nature, 3D models were what they were due to technical limitations, etc. There were definitely too many characters. I remember the primaries and a small handful of the others, but the rest? Nah. I'm a big fan of Nobuteru Yuki's art, but it didn't translate well at all when it came to the portrait assets (they looked nice in the CG segments though). I can replay CT easily over and over, but I have yet to make it more than an hour or two into CC subsequently. I would love a remaster with some QoL updates, HD backgrounds, and nicer 3D models. Please don't touch the music though.
Trigger's battle theme is fine.
Cross' forced me to mute the game whenever it played.
They are not comparable, haha.
I don't have a problem with CC as a sequel to Trigger, and I think it's actually interesting in that way. But just having replayed the game, I can't help but feel that the game is the poster child for unnecessarily convoluted. Some games use complex (or even convoluted) to feature exciting adventures with fun developments along the way. But CC isn't really that. Completing the game always leaves me feeling like "what, that's it," because it's the sort of game where the player isn't really aware of what's going on and is always moving to the next point to figure that out. But once you go back and recount what actually happened in Serge's adventure, well, there's not much there after Fort Dragonia. At times it feels like a late 80s, early 90s JRPG, with a lot of inconsequential barriers and diversions. Terra Tower is really the culmination of the writing's problems. It just feels more like random happenstance than anything impressive or exciting. There is the story about the war between Chronopolis and Terra Tower, but guess what, that's not in this game. More than anything, I think Chrono Cross just has a lot going in relative to the extremely limited amount of time it spends communicating anything of consequence to the player. You'll spend a lot of time focusing on Marbule and the demi-people (or whatever they're called), but major plot points are often communicated briefly before or after a boss fight at a major destination. Then the player goes hours before the main thrust of the plot is given any relevancy again.
I'm also left wondering if the game didn't receive some late game story revisions, because the scene where the dragons form the dragon god is predicated with "they're ready to get their revenge," then you see them about to do ... something. And then it ends. What?
I'm also left wondering if the game didn't receive some late game story revisions, because the scene where the dragons form the dragon god is predicated with "they're ready to get their revenge," then you see them about to do ... something. And then it ends. What?
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wow the cross fans have been getting really rabid on here lately. honestly for me, changing the battle system would go a liking way to me liking it more and some tightening up of the story. I also think the narration that the people who dislike it only dislike it because its not trigger is dismissive, plenty of us have problems with the game not related to that.
I hate Cross because I wanted Trigger 2. I'd likely think it was a perfectly decent PSx era JRPG if it weren't for those failed expectations.
It's a bit funny, since my issues with Cross are almost all on that it didn't go all the way in being it's own thing. It starts off trying to be its own thing but ends trying to be a direct sequel to Trigger, and it all mixes in a way that isn't satisfying to me.
Cross is only good when it has as little to do with Trigger as possible. That's when it shines.
I'm surprised so many people have issues with the combat music and battle system. I loved the combat and progression system in generally. Really made the important battles feel challenging.
Assigning elements was a pain though.
Disagree completely. Some of the most riveting moments were when they added context to what happened in Trigger.
I will say there is a massive shift in tone though.
The only other game I can think of that did something similar was KOTOR 2. It only has a cynical view of what happened in the first game.
Assigning elements was a pain though.
Disagree completely. Some of the most riveting moments were when they added context to what happened in Trigger.
I will say there is a massive shift in tone though.
The only other game I can think of that did something similar was KOTOR 2. It only has a cynical view of what happened in the first game.
Don't see why people complain about CC having too many characters. The game main focus was on the 4 main characters in the story, while the rest of the characters are there for fun. Not every character needs to have the same importance as the main characters. It's rare we get a JRPG (or even a WRPGs) with a lot of characters, and I'm glad CC went with that choice.
It's funny because Chrono Cross kinda sets itself up for a re-imagining / redo game.
If you get the good ending the timelines are seemingly merged and Serge is returned to the point of time when he first crossed dimensions and able to continue living his life, though perhaps now with knowledge of people and places that might no longer exist. You can easily come up with a new scenario and have him and some friends go on more adventures in familiar locales if you wished. And they already gave you a good enough motive: to search for Kid, perhaps out in the wider world outside El Nido.
What I just want to know is what the hell happened to Schala? She looks totally different in this game compared to Trigger.
The only thing that needs fixing in this game (and I stress: the only thing) is the characters. Instead of having like 40 different ones who stop having any development as soon as they join your party, the game should have stuck with having the regular 6 or 8 member party, and having them all be full-fledged characters.
That's it.
That's it.
Would it actually, though?
People super diggin' the FF7 remake. I can't imagine many fans wouldn't be stoked as fuck about a similar approach to Chrono Cross. Or Chrono Trigger. (That said, if FF7r's gonna be 294 individual games, I can't imagine what CC would have to be. Oh gosh.)
...I'd take a new game in the same series over a remake of either, though.
i'm talking more about a ground up re-do. like take core concepts like El Nido and how it factors into CT's mythos, stuff like that, keep key players like Serge and Kidd, main story beats... and tear down pretty much everything else (namely the 40 playable character freak show). i'm guessing FF7R will still be reasonably "loyal" it's source material
like i said CC had some good ideas but when the rubber hit the road it didn't quite work out, and i'm well aware that isn't a popular opinion (well, it was a black sheep for awhile but developed quite the cray cray cult following past 10 years or so, not to impugn its fans)
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The game was victim of "Disc 2 syndrome" like many of Square's PS1 games. Basically Square back then required that all projects had to be completed in two years max, which means that many endgames were rushed to meet the deadlines (the most blatant example being Xenogears).
Some of the stuff cut from the Chrono Cross late game include Harle's farewell to Serge before the Dragon God resurrection:
There's also the whole purpose of the Arbiter of Time which is explained in the Chrono Cross Ultimania but was cut from the game.
The Japanese late game actually has less text dumps at Opassa Beach than the English version. This is because the development team made use of the extra time of the North American localization to add textual explanations for events that had to be cut from the game.
Ahh okay, then yeah, you're right.
I mean, you're also wrong. The game was fantastic back then and still is. Second best ps1 jrpg, after all! It's one of three ps1 games i just can't bring myself to get rid of, even though I have no ps1 anymore. Or ps2. D:
Nod, nod.
Wow, thanks for the thoughtful contribution and adding so much to the discussion. Anybody who drive by posts with nothing but "Game is trash" should just think twice before hitting the post button.
Why they decided for dozens of characters I'll never know, what a dumb fucking decision. Removing them won't fix things, though. If they could remove most of them, and add more to the remaining characters then it would drastically shift the game for the better. Being in the same world as the last game was fine but turning it into a full blown sequel at the end wasn't very smart.