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Is Beyond Good and Evil 2 the new Textbook definition of "Vaporware" taking Duke Nukem Forever's throne?
- Thread starter Slayven
- Start date
Nothing would make me happier than for BG&E to get a proper sequel. But this is definitely not it and it does make me wonder, even if this game ever does come out, who is it for exactly? Because this seems like BG&E only in name as far as I can tell. Not to mention stuff like the fact that even Jade's voice actress has also passed away some years ago so even if it were a proper sequel they'd have to get someone else.
(Yes, I know the "original" French language actress is very much alive, I'm talking about the English language one).
(Yes, I know the "original" French language actress is very much alive, I'm talking about the English language one).
Gonna echo those who think Ancel's departure means BG+E2 is pretty much dead.
These days Ubisoft seems to have a few 'reliable' franchises they lean on, and the associated teams seem to have fairly steady output - AC, R6, FC, GR (wow, and they all boil so neatly down to two-letter acronyms!). New games are spun off of those and can probably have a more stable development path because they are working off a known base - Immortals is basically an AC game, R6 Extraction is basically R6 Siege re-worked to PvE, you get the idea.
Smaller teams are allowed to experiment by being assigned to post-game DLC packs or 'side projects' - again giving them a stable base to work off and prove themselves on.
BG+E2 doesn't really seem to 'fit' into any of those moulds, and probably has a very custom/experimental engine. I bet its also very expensive to keep in development, and a complete unknown in terms of sales prospects.
If the game isn't scrapped entirely, it wouldn't surprise me if it got re-tooled completely to be another Anvil-engine game that's derivative of the AC formula.
Much of what's in AC these days is perfectly fitting for BG+E - Stealth, sailing, parkour - so if they wanted to do an 'asset salvaging' job, they may well be able to get something out in a handful of years if they can fully utilize the AC content-creation pipeline.
These days Ubisoft seems to have a few 'reliable' franchises they lean on, and the associated teams seem to have fairly steady output - AC, R6, FC, GR (wow, and they all boil so neatly down to two-letter acronyms!). New games are spun off of those and can probably have a more stable development path because they are working off a known base - Immortals is basically an AC game, R6 Extraction is basically R6 Siege re-worked to PvE, you get the idea.
Smaller teams are allowed to experiment by being assigned to post-game DLC packs or 'side projects' - again giving them a stable base to work off and prove themselves on.
BG+E2 doesn't really seem to 'fit' into any of those moulds, and probably has a very custom/experimental engine. I bet its also very expensive to keep in development, and a complete unknown in terms of sales prospects.
If the game isn't scrapped entirely, it wouldn't surprise me if it got re-tooled completely to be another Anvil-engine game that's derivative of the AC formula.
Much of what's in AC these days is perfectly fitting for BG+E - Stealth, sailing, parkour - so if they wanted to do an 'asset salvaging' job, they may well be able to get something out in a handful of years if they can fully utilize the AC content-creation pipeline.
I just wanted a straightforward sequel, you idiots
I generally don't feel this way, but yeah, I agree. Tighten up the gameplay, add a little more depth to the combat and photo taking, and boom.
Well, yeah, but Duke Nukem Forever also went through several different incarnations that also were scrapped, and it doesn't take away from its vapourware fame. Even if the game we eventually got had little to do with the one we were shown in the very cool trailer from 2001. Technicalities aside, no one has thought of the different versions of this game as different games, so people who loved BG&E and wanted a sequel have indeed been taken on quite the trip over the years. Like, I wouldn't even say the 2008 CGI teaser was the moment people became excited for this, since there had been rumblings already for years of a sequel happening. That trailer was the moment that many of us took as a way of saying "yes, we really are getting a new current-gen BG&E".
That said, yes, you're obviously right that the current version of the game hasn't been in development for remotely that long. I'd love for it to eventually come out, but I'm not holding my breath.
Not working in Ubisoft for a year by this point, so I wouldn't know what's happening to it now, but BGE2 was pretty much a vaporware project even before Ancel's departure.
It was a huge poorly-directed mess, if 'directed' would be a proper word as everything points to a total lack of direction. People would move between studios just to not work on it anymore (and with Ancel specifically too). The project was given a total carte blanche but it didn't know what to do with it, having a bunch of vague great-sounding ideas without a clear understanding how they would be implemented.
It was a huge poorly-directed mess, if 'directed' would be a proper word as everything points to a total lack of direction. People would move between studios just to not work on it anymore (and with Ancel specifically too). The project was given a total carte blanche but it didn't know what to do with it, having a bunch of vague great-sounding ideas without a clear understanding how they would be implemented.
Yeah, I remember watching that trailer, asking myself if this is Ubisoft getting back at Sean Murray after he (rightfully so!) dunked on them with No Man's Sky saying: By using deterministic procedural 3D generation we can create a bigger game than other studios can with more than 1000 designers.
(I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist of it.)
This and Skull & Bones.
Whatever the heck they made with BG&E2 is going to be dead now Ancel is bye bye.
From other companies: I think Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 is a wtf is this now mess as well that will probably never release. Entire project leads all gone and game being rebooted more than likely. Who knows how that will end up. I do hope for greatness and wtf went on behind the scenes with that.
Whatever the heck they made with BG&E2 is going to be dead now Ancel is bye bye.
From other companies: I think Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 is a wtf is this now mess as well that will probably never release. Entire project leads all gone and game being rebooted more than likely. Who knows how that will end up. I do hope for greatness and wtf went on behind the scenes with that.
Ew. That looks nothing like BG&E to me. It's missing every single thing that made the original fun and unique. No thanks.
please no
I legit hated the dungeon crawling DLC for DD, I would be sad if they turned the whole game into that.
Basically if you go look at early previews of BG&E1 the whole gigantic solar system thing is the game 1 was intended to be before they had to cut back on features, ending up with a single planet and moon tourism. So they saw 2 as an opportunity to try that again.
The thing that kills me is that I bought BG&E when it launched, it's a good game but not THAT good. Even if the sequel came out with all the pie in the sky clearly bs stuff they wanted to add the game would still flop. There was virtually no way this game ends up being a commercial success under any circumstances so I just don't get why.
For any media, if your sequel is more than 4 years after the original, don't bother. If it's an all time classic maybe you could get away with 7-10 years but I can't think of any that are good.
For any media, if your sequel is more than 4 years after the original, don't bother. If it's an all time classic maybe you could get away with 7-10 years but I can't think of any that are good.
Yeah I think this game will almost certainly be cancelled sans Ancel (*insert cAncelled joke*)
The leaked gameplay target render for this project gave me a lot of hope for a follow up action adventure single player experience with Jade, even if it was leaning into the "gritty" nonsense that was so popular at the time
God, that suddenly reminds me of the gen 7 SSX Deadly Descents debut trailer 🤦‍♂️
The leaked gameplay target render for this project gave me a lot of hope for a follow up action adventure single player experience with Jade, even if it was leaning into the "gritty" nonsense that was so popular at the time
God, that suddenly reminds me of the gen 7 SSX Deadly Descents debut trailer 🤦‍♂️
Ubisoft is in a big mess with their projects. Past 3 years was a shitshow.
Yes. He wasn't involved and the sex scandal, so that's why I was able to go with his own terms. But he was a toxic shit, yes. A Dan Houser kind.
Sure, you just said it, the project wasn't announced in 2008. Same as with the Zelda Space world 2000 trailer or the FFVII PS3 tech demo… doesn't mean anything until the project starts. Duke Nukem WAS announced and in development 14 years.
I agree BG&E2 is vaporware and one of the biggest ones. I just don't think the 2008 teaser was the start of the project.
departure, presence - not sure either really ever mattered. fundamentally cancelled the moment it was announced...
BG&E was one of my favorite games of the era and one of the only true 3D Zelda-alikes to even exist. I'd love a sequel to that, but the very little we've heard about BG&E2 sounds like it would be that.
Back when the very first rumors about BG&E2's existence started popping up the given reason was that it was a pet project to keep Ancel happy as he'd otherwise have left Ubi after the Rabbids took over Rayman's spot.
naw, their engine and tools are taking fooooooooooooooooooooreeeeeeeeever to build tho i hear
It was announced in 2008 as the next project by Ancel. It was a formal announcement even if it didn't have the BG&E2 title yet. And Ancel had stated that the game was in pre-production since 2007 with the directly implication that the 2008 showing was Ubisoft entering it into production.
The comparison to Duke Nukem is very appropriate as, like Duke Nukem, BG&E2 has gone through numerous iterations & development reboots over the years. Also Nukem wasn't in constant development for those 14 years either. ID worked on other games and Gearbox ended up cobbling together the loose ends.
It was already going down that direction when they announced that partnership with Joseph Gordon-Levitt's company HitRecord. Using community contract workers, underpaying them even more than having a direct contract with Ubisoft, to make art assets for a game that even then felt like vaporware.
It feels like anytime Ubisoft tries to develop anything that isn't the "Ubisoft open world" their whole internal process breaks down.
I'd say it's kind of the truer definition of vaporware compared to DNF.
DNF was always a real game that suffered from poor project oversight, resulting in work being lost again and again. It was always a real, playable game - that they just couldn't bring themselves to polish up and ship.
BG&E2 never existed at all, while Ubisoft acted as if it did exist. That is vaporware.
DNF was always a real game that suffered from poor project oversight, resulting in work being lost again and again. It was always a real, playable game - that they just couldn't bring themselves to polish up and ship.
BG&E2 never existed at all, while Ubisoft acted as if it did exist. That is vaporware.
You might need to let that go. It's been 9 years. A random comment shouldn't stay in your thoughts this long for it to be the first thing you think of
Agree to disagree, I guess.
Nothing was announced, it could've been a spin off, remake, retcon, gaiden, sequel, or something else completely. I agree that it can be inferred from the teaser that it was supposed to be something in the same universe, but again, nothing was announced.
As far as we know it could've been a BG&E Pachinko machine. 🤷‍♂️
I think even if Duke Nukem Forever isn't the game with longest period of time from announcement to release, it'll always have the reputation of being that game. It was literally built into the marketing campaign for the game. It also comes from an era with shorter dev times, and like, it's also not like it was particularly ambitious. It was just a victim of various circumstances.
It certainly wasn't? Like... What?
Ancel talked pretty openly of that version of the game.
Like, you realize that the Duke Nukem we ended up getting had nothing remaining from the originally announced game 14 years prior. You can draw a lot of lines in-between the various versions of BG&E2 but those same lines can be applied to Duke Nukem. Neither game were in active development for 14 years despite being announced.
If you count the 'Pig' trailer/video maybe, but if youre going by concrete announcements, then no because BG&E2 was only announced a few years ago, officially. DNF existed as a fully announced game in a state of "when it's done" for 14 years.
Not to mention swapping engines 3 times build->idtech3->unreal engine 1-3
Not to mention swapping engines 3 times build->idtech3->unreal engine 1-3
I also find it hilarious that Beyond Good and Evil is just so much ripoff from Alastair Reynolds work. The games and trailers even align with his book releases. First game started production around the same time as Redemption Space, ripped the hyperpigs etc from there, then the sequel trailer, with the skull in the ship, also timed after the release of Revenger, in which they have skulls for communication on their ships.. and then evil space pirate jade, also fitting with revenger, with the evil space pirate sister. Quite disappointing :)