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Is Batman Justified

  • Yes

    Votes: 882 93.5%
  • No

    Votes: 61 6.5%

  • Total voters
    943

Aske

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,578
Canadia
No these were his friends, he broke bread with these people. This is only something a psychopath and narcissist would do

The way he went about it, I agree with you. But there should have been discussions amongst every member of the League about how to shut down the other members. Total transparency about their strengths and weaknesses, plus knowledge that the others needed to form private plans to ensure they protected the world from each other in case the worst happened...something like that just seems smart.

On top of that, I'd never trust Batman. I always thought it was naïve of them not to assume he'd create contingency plans to guard against them. It's in his nature, just as it's in Superman's nature to rigidly adhere to a code of ethics even if it means the destruction of the world, and it's in Wonder Woman's nature to see the grey and kill Max Lord.
 

Sargerus

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
20,848
I swear I remember seeing a comic panel where Batman straight up admits that he never had a plan for Wonder Woman because she was that terrifying
Superman is the plan.
3yXYye0.jpg
 


Batman's crazy. He's also right... sometimes. This is one of those times. Superman's an existential threat to the human race.

Not sure Plastic Man merits that kind of a response, though. But I'm not enough of a DC nerd to really comment on that. Maybe he's an DC's Iceman: limitless potential, held back only by his own failure to live up to it?

Batman actually classifies Plastic Man as the most dangerous threat and a lot agree.


Divided we fall is a better show than trial by fire and obsidian age for this.
 
Last edited:

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,135
That is why Dick is the better Batman, he would help his friends instead of double tapping them.
 

PhoenixAKG

Member
Aug 14, 2019
7,814


Batman's crazy. He's also right... sometimes. This is one of those times. Superman's an existential threat to the human race.

Not sure Plastic Man merits that kind of a response, though. But I'm not enough of a DC nerd to really comment on that. Maybe he's an DC's Iceman: limitless potential, held back only by his own failure to live up to it?


Yep. Plastic Man is potentially one of the most powerful Leagues and Batman himself has said Plastic Man could kill the Justice League if he wanted too.
 

echoshifting

very salt heavy
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,727
The Negative Zone
He's completely justified and I can't believe this is a question. If Superman or the Flash were mind controlled by the wrong entity and the order was to wipe out every human being they could do it. Millions would die before he could even execute these plans.

And i will go against the thread and say he was also justified in keeping it a secret. His only real fuckup was keeping them in a place where they could be stolen. That was dumb (bad writing).
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
11,737
Let's be honest, 99% of super heroes have a rival villain with a nearly-identical powerset. You might as well be prepared for it.
 

RiOrius

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,081
Batman is the only one responible for the the genocide of an entire country. Google Brother EYE and OMAC
Wait, am I reading this right? This Maxwell Lord dude successfully brainswashes Superman, but eh, no big deal, Wonderwoman fixes it before Supes can do anything too awful. But Lord's dead man's switch involves a hack he pulled on some of Batman's tech, which goes ham and kills all the Amazons?

Man, DC just loves letting Batman punch way above his weight class and letting Superman job hard, don't they? Clearly the moral of the story is that the rest of the Justice League doesn't have enough contingencies in place to stop Batman in case he (or his tech) gets subverted.

Hang on, just saw the pages you posted: the Wikipedia article says Brother Eye was hacked, but that sounds more like it pulled an Ultron? Was there some retconjuration involved here?
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,135
Wait, am I reading this right? This Maxwell Lord dude successfully brainswashes Superman, but eh, no big deal, Wonderwoman fixes it before Supes can do anything too awful. But Lord's dead man's switch involves a hack he pulled on some of Batman's tech, which goes ham and kills all the Amazons?

Man, DC just loves letting Batman punch way above his weight class and letting Superman job hard, don't they? Clearly the moral of the story is that the rest of the Justice League doesn't have enough contingencies in place to stop Batman in case he (or his tech) gets subverted.

Hang on, just saw the pages you posted: the Wikipedia article says Brother Eye was hacked, but that sounds more like it pulled an Ultron? Was there some retconjuration involved here?
Maybe don't put a invisible murder satelite into space?
 

Soj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,707
He didn't need to keep it a secret. "Hey guys there's like a billion people capable of mind control or making clones or opening up alternate realities so I think it'd be swell if I came up with plans to take us down in the event something like that happens. Which'll probably be next week at the latest. kthxbye".

"Zatanna, come over here and mind wipe Bruce again."
 

ReiGun

Member
Nov 15, 2017
1,723
The DC Metal stuff is literally all about how Batman, under the right circumstances, could doom all of humanity. Much of it being the result of these various contingency plans no less.

Given that, it's kind of hypocritical for him to decide he's the best person for the job if another Leaguer goes rogue.
 

just_myles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,465
Same dude who thought he was justified in telling SUperman to leave when Gotham was reduced to rubble and people were resorting to cannibalism ? Same dude who is constantly recruiting children for his street war?

No man's land. It's not that he told him to leave. He told him that he can handle it. I'm not sure which is worse.
 
Wait, am I reading this right? This Maxwell Lord dude successfully brainswashes Superman, but eh, no big deal, Wonderwoman fixes it before Supes can do anything too awful. But Lord's dead man's switch involves a hack he pulled on some of Batman's tech, which goes ham and kills all the Amazons?

Man, DC just loves letting Batman punch way above his weight class and letting Superman job hard, don't they? Clearly the moral of the story is that the rest of the Justice League doesn't have enough contingencies in place to stop Batman in case he (or his tech) gets subverted.

Hang on, just saw the pages you posted: the Wikipedia article says Brother Eye was hacked, but that sounds more like it pulled an Ultron? Was there some retconjuration involved here?
Worst thing is that they wasted the Max mind control plot (a really well written one) in that trash story.

I think it's actually good they went this route with Batman.

🤷‍♂️
Batman works best as a human with fellings.
 

RiOrius

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,081
Maybe don't put a invisible murder satelite into space?

Where else was he going to put it? The batcave's already full, what with the giant penny and the batcomputer and all the various vehicles they sold to kids.

Besides, if you put an invisible murder satellite anywhere that's not space, it's not an invisible murder satellite, it's just an invisible murder box.
 

Pau

Self-Appointed Godmother of Bruce Wayne's Children
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,847
No these were his friends, he broke bread with these people. This is only something a psychopath and narcissist would do
I think it's possible to write Bruce as very paranoid (and to portray it as a flaw) and let that paranoia lead to mistakes without making him a psychopath or narcissist. But I don't think many writers are interested in that.
 

ReiGun

Member
Nov 15, 2017
1,723
I think it's possible to write Bruce as very paranoid (and to portray it as a flaw) and let that paranoia lead to mistakes without making him a psychopath or narcissist. But I don't think many writers are interested in that.
Ironically, I think Tower of Babel did a good job portraying it as a flaw. But then it turned into fanwank material because, "Look how cool and awesome Batman is cause he can beat those lame Justice League losers!" and no one ever treated it as a bad thing again.

He says this while having anti justice league weapons so he could easily take them out if he ever goes rogue
Which is the other problem. If Batman goes evil, who stops him? He literally just sits around and thinks of ways to kill all his friends while said friends.....live normal lives and don't do weirdo shit like that.

Justice League gonna pull up on evil Batman just to be hit with all the tech he made to beat them if they turned evil.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,103
It doesn't make sense for there not to be contingency plans to take down the Justice League. Not only is mind control relatively routine, but almost all members of the League have rivals who have power sets similar (often borderline identical) to their own. Additionally, there's a multiverse of alternative versions of both individual superheroes and the Justice League itself, and some of them are outright evil. Even from a purely pragmatic, grounded perspective, the members of the League are - each of them, individually - an above-nuclear level threat. That threat is held in check purely by their own emotional and psychological stability, and their world contains some people who are pretty specialised in causing emotional and psychological damage.

It therefore also doesn't make sense for the contingency plans to be secret, or for the League to oppose their creation. Batman should tell the League what he's doing, and they should agree and enthusiastically help to formulate contingency plans to take themselves down in a variety of circumstances (ideally non-lethally).

Maybe those plans should also be somewhat protected. Like, a really good place to keep them would be on a properly secured computer. And not connected to a network. And also, on a space station controlled by the Justice League. And not, say, none of those things.
 

Deleted member 34949

Account closed at user request
Banned
Nov 30, 2017
19,101
I think it's possible to write Bruce as very paranoid (and to portray it as a flaw) and let that paranoia lead to mistakes without making him a psychopath or narcissist. But I don't think many writers are interested in that.
Dark Nights: Metal was kind of iffy, but I do like that they played up that aspect of Bruce a bit in the first few issues (IIRC, he even owns up to it at one point)
 

ReiGun

Member
Nov 15, 2017
1,723
If there must be contingency plans for the Justice League, they should come from outside the team. Like, maybe have Batman pull Dick aside and tell him, "Look son. If shit goes south, you and the Titans are gonna have to take us down. You have access to all the files in the Bat computer. Make it work."

It would also be a really great story since that kind of thinking doesn't come naturally to Dick. So you have him seeing the importance of Bruce's point while also struggling with the idea of having to fight/kill his friends and mentors.
 

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,034
In a universe where there have been at least 100 different instances of superheroes' minds being controlled or dangerously compromised, absofuckinglutely Batman was right to have contingencies. The only part he fucked up was not making his case to the Justice League before shit hit the fan.
 

Luigi87

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,105
I guess a messed up thing is that Batman doesn't kill his rogues gallery, actual villains, yet his contingency plans all seemingly involve murdering the JL as opposed to just stopping them.
 

JigglesBunny

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
31,129
Chicago
With how many times we've gotten "evil Superman", I'm about to have some contingency plans to take that motherfucker out.