-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Is Back to the Future Part II the only movie where the future isn't a dystopia?
- Thread starter DiipuSurotu
- Start date
People are arrested, tried, convicted and sentenced to 15 years for "theft" with no option for legal representation...within two hours of the crime committed.
I'm just stopping by to comment on how this is the most "movie: the poster" poster I've ever seen in my life.
I, Robot. Aside from that one robot going a bit haywire and it been a pretty terrible adaptation.
Asimov was rather Utopian with his world building.
Why? Flying cars. Accurate weather prediction. An amazing '80s nostalgia revival. TVs that let you watch at least 6 shows at once and can display video phone calls. Virtual reality headsets that also receive phone calls. Fruit whenever you ask for it. Video screens in your windows so you can pretend you live somewhere that doesn't suck.
Well I'm pretty sure the mental recalibration stuff was being done in the "present" onwards. They put them both in the same cryo-prison, but it still happened (the process started) in their present. The future however does have class disparity, but only because the people who didn't want to conform hid underground. Also no sex. No toilet paper. No swearing. (I'd be fucked) No popular music. And Taco Bell doesn't even have tacos anymore. So yeah, fuck that future. lol
But at least the police would be too incompetent to murder innocent people anymore. And vehicle safety is top notch. Also random naked women accidentally call your video phone from time to time so it's not all bad.
Yea its more of a police state in 2015... shocker
and the suburbs look like trash.
EDIT: If yall want a thing that has a nice future instead of a dystopian one... Black Mirror: San Junipero.
OP
OP
Please tell me this is extreme sarcasm
Fucking thank you. lol
Absolutely not, and I tend to hate this argument. If anything, it would be an AMAZING boon to have utopian (or at least eutopian— yes, that "e" changes everything!) sci-fi be the yang to dystopian sci-fi yin's. Because if all you read and watch is dystopian fiction, you get bummed out. You get depressed.
You get apathetic and, thus, more tolerant of the dystopia you're supposed to fear. Writers in the first half of the 20th century knew this, hence why there were utopian and dystopian novels alike, why some depictions of the future portrayed it as a human face forever stamped by a boot and others as future where humans had learned to move past old follies, at least to some extent.
It might also be due to our Western storytelling tradition that craves conflict. It's one reason why I've come to adore kishōtenketsu story structure since it doesn't intrinsically need conflict to tell an interesting story. If you can only imagine stories through the lens of conflict, then of course there can never be a good "anything" because you have to corrupt it to tell a story.
Kishōtenketsu - Wikipedia
Because why should I care about your social causes, man, if everything is pointless and we're all going to die? Go hang gays, because we're going to die. Go lynch a black man, because humans are shit and worthless maggots. Don't care about bombing brown kids for money; that's just how we are!
See how pointless that is in contrast? If there's no look to what we could do or what a better world might look like, why bother working for it? You defeat your own point and there's no way to take your moralizing seriously if you think "well, whatever, we're doomed anyway."
That's not to say we aren't up shit's creek in many ways, but I am of the mind that part of this really does stem back to apathetic visionaries who don't care to ask themselves, "What would a better world look like? How would it function? And how can I tell a story in this world that isn't rooted in the decency of it being a sham?"
Thank you for writing, Morrigan. Of course, your question touches on one of the most basic biological impulses, with all its associated hopes and fears for the future of the species. I also detect some unspoken questions. Does Dr. Raymond Cocteau really know what's best for us? What gives Dr. Cocteau the right to make this kind of decision for mankind? Will he ever repeal the suppression of sexual contact and let us breed naturally again?
Allow me to address the anxieties underlying your concerns, rather than try to answer every possible question you might have left unvoiced. First, let us consider the fact that for the first time ever, as a species, immortality is in our reach thanks to our advances in cryogenic freezing. This simple fact has far-reaching implications. It requires radical rethinking and revision of our genetic imperatives. It also requires planning and forethought that run in direct opposition to our neural pre-sets.
I find it helpful at times like these to remind myself that our true enemy is Instinct. Instinct was our mother when we were an infant species. Instinct coddled us and kept us safe in those hardscrabble years when we hardened our sticks and cooked our first meals above a meager fire and startled at the shadows that leapt upon the cavern's walls. But inseparable from Instinct is its dark twin, Superstition. Instinct is inextricably bound to unreasoning impulses, and today we clearly see its true nature. Instinct has just become aware of its irrelevance, and like a cornered beast, it will not go down without a bloody fight. Instinct would inflict a fatal injury on our species. Instinct creates its own oppressors, and bids us rise up against them. Instinct tells us that the unknown is a threat, rather than an opportunity. Instinct slyly and covertly compels us away from change and progress. Instinct, therefore, must be expunged. It must be fought tooth and nail, beginning with the basest of human urges: The urge to reproduce.
We should thank our Dr. Cocteau for giving us respite from this overpowering force and allowing us outlets through safe, virtual means. He has, with the a simple pen, exorcised our demons in a single stroke. He has given us the strength we never could have summoned to overcome this compulsion. He has given us purpose. He has turned our eyes toward the stars.
Let me assure you that the suppression of sexual contact will be repealed on the day that we have mastered ourselves...the day we can prove we no longer need it. And that day of transformation, I have it on good authority, is close at hand.
You have been fined one credit for violation of the Verbal Morality Statute.
I mean the whole reason they even go to the future is Marty's kid gets railroaded into jail because there isn't any more due process in the future and trials don't last more than a day.
Griff coerces Marty Junior to take part in a robbery and makes him take the fall even though Griff is the mastermind. None of this gets addressed because the judicial system in 2015 is a kangaroo court.
Last edited:
the good future of tbbt2 the court sentenced someone to prison in minutes and thats pretty normal, it seems to me like a fascist state, no defence can be made in minutes
I just rewatched the scene as well they keep assaulting him when he says no he doesn't want to participate in the crime lol
Any fair or decent justice system would have treated him as a victim.
Yes, actually. They pick up on emotions and intent, so they won't even notice if you accidentally kill someone (manslaughter). It's not particularly realistic, but, y'know, it's a movie.
This is true, and that aspect of the system is flawed. But I wouldn't say the small minority of people who may've been wrongfully imprisoned for precrime (an institution that only exists in one city, FYI) constitute a dystopia.
Like, you have a point about the spiders (and the targeted advertisements based on retinal scans are also pretty creepy), but on the whole the future presented is, IMO, roughly on par with the present.
Hunger Games is a dystopia. Snowpiercer is a dystopia. The Matrix is a dystopia. But Minority Report is a future with self-driving cars, targeted advertisements, and a criminal justice system that's flawed but promptly improves when exposed to daylight. Like... that's not dystopia, that's Tuesday plus self-driving cars (and the part about improvements to the criminal justice system).
I feel like you really missed the important points here. What if it's not just a small minority? How would we know? Do you trust the authorities to be truthful with such a powerful tool? How do you know it exists in one city? And who decides which positives to go after? We've already seen that the system is unreliable. How much trust do you really want to grant it?
The idea of precrime is something that is, on its face, dystopian. Even if the rest of the Minority Report world were exactly like ours (which it very much isn't) the existence of precrime would still make it so. I mean, this is some "other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?" kind of downplaying.
Lol I've never seen it put this way but yeah this is spot-on.
Yeah it's implied the authorities have been covering up the minority reports for a very long time, also knowing you might commit a crime alters things so people are being imprisoned who haven't committed a crime and may never commit a crime.
You know an easier solution would have been to just tell Marty to raise his son to stand up for himself in the first place. Warn him about Griff. Don't be a wimp. Etc. I mean Marty learned this stuff himself by the end of the first movie.
The Culture is not technically in the future I don't think.
I don't think Earth gets added into The Culture until the 1990s (our time) and that's mid way through the series and not really ever mentioned. Aside from one of the Ship Minds prank calling the BBC and a not insignificant faction if Contact wanting to glass the planet because Earthlings are apparent psychopaths.
I guess but just because his son's a pussy doesn't mean he should go to jail because a gang physically coerced him into committing a crime.
Agreed. I'm just saying he should still teach his son ahead of time to prepare him since he has the advanced knowledge of it. In fact now that Marty does see what happens with his son he might end up doing this anyway. I mean he learned to stand up to Needles by the end of III. As Doc said, the future isn't written yet. The 2015 we see wont exist as it is for Marty and Jennifer after this. In fact they might not even get the same house and might not even stay in Hill Valley. Marty will definitely end up as a musician now that he didn't damage his hand in the drag race. He'll be better off, live in a better neighborhood and definitely raise his children differently just by seeing his current future trajectory.
But yeah, that whole thing with no lawyers does kinda suck. But at least Marty Jr. can avoid it now.
Brazil, the movie, imo is not a dystopia but a more appropriate name is "future imperfect" genre. Like it's a story of utter boredom in the monotony of every day life in this weird bureaucratic future of pointlessness but it's not strictly dystopic anymore than our present day is dystopic. It has themes of dystopia, a person wrongly accused by a bureaucratic police state, but ... That's really not different than today or the 1980s when it was made. The world is falling apart with scenes of crumbling dysfunction, but so is our own. Brazil seems to be about as much of a dystopia as Office Space is. It's centered in the every day dysfunctions of modern life.
That's a good point maybe none of it happens anymore and society is fine given Marty refused to drag race at the end of III, it's like a butterfly effect thing.
Obviously it's a book first but Atlas Shrugged is generally utopic. Although it's also set in the near future, not the far future. Sure, there is a problem: the mess of bureaucracy and glad handing anti-meritocracy/soft kleptocracy, but the direction of the novel is to utopia not dystopia.
(Whether you think of 'Galts Gulch' as a utopia or an impossible libertarian fantasy doesn't really matter, the author certainly intended for it to be a utopia)
It's kind of interesting that this is the prevailing theory (and can be proven out by his many futuristic movies are dystopian), but the genre of dystopias was a response to the overwhelming majority of utopic future novels/stories. While dystopias existed as a genre prior to 19th century, they wouldn't come to dominate over utopias until the 1900s where finding utopic mainstream fiction was generally pretty rare. Utopic novels, where they exist, tend to be in subgenres usually in religious fiction, political fiction (Atlas Shrugged is a contrast of a near future familiar dystopia that then establishes an everlasting utopia as part of the story), or young adult.
(Whether you think of 'Galts Gulch' as a utopia or an impossible libertarian fantasy doesn't really matter, the author certainly intended for it to be a utopia)
It's kind of interesting that this is the prevailing theory (and can be proven out by his many futuristic movies are dystopian), but the genre of dystopias was a response to the overwhelming majority of utopic future novels/stories. While dystopias existed as a genre prior to 19th century, they wouldn't come to dominate over utopias until the 1900s where finding utopic mainstream fiction was generally pretty rare. Utopic novels, where they exist, tend to be in subgenres usually in religious fiction, political fiction (Atlas Shrugged is a contrast of a near future familiar dystopia that then establishes an everlasting utopia as part of the story), or young adult.
Last edited:
Well I'm sure Marty becoming a musician instead of working in an office wont affect the rest of the world. But at the very least he can keep his son out of jail by teaching him well. I mean look at Marty's own family before and after his trip to 1955. His father stood up to Biff and changed himself so much it affected his wife and children. Marty knowing not to race Needles is enough to change his own family's future.
The funny thing is why did Doc even take him to the future to change the future? It's useless to travel into the future to change something that hasn't happened yet. You're just wasting time and effort when all you gotta do is make a mental note to make sure something doesn't happen. But Zemeckis and Gale wrote themselves into a corner with the cliffhanger because they never planned on making more movies. Doc was very vague at the end of the movie about what happened. So they made something up that could easily have been avoided just to have a plot device excuse to get them into the future. Doc could have easily just came back to 1985 and offered to take them on a fun trip to the future for no big reason but that wouldn't have been an exciting conclusion.
They had basically free energy in the form of nuclear fusion from trash. I'd say they were doing pretty good, and we don't really have much of an idea of the economic systems at play besides the fact that stores and such still existed.
My theory (which is not explicitly supported in the movie, but I think is hinted at) is that Doc saw how fucked up Marty's life got by 2015 and wanted to help him change not just his future but the way he thought and reacted to things.
He wanted to make him understand he shouldn't let guys like Griff or Needles provoke him by calling him chicken but worried that if he just told Marty the specific incidents he needed to avoid he wouldn't really learn anything and would fuck up his life some other way.
It certainly was a utopian society. Aside from the Morlocks eating the Eloys erry now and then. But I guess that's the price you pay for a carefree existence.
There are some clues I think it may not be very nice and in fact worse than our world in some ways;
- There seems to be advanced automation; when Marty first gets there, he marvels at a robot filling up a car with fuel instead of an attendant.
- Trials last about a day, which was probably done out of necessity, implying there is a lot of crime. It's possible automation has left a lot of people unemployed.
- The suburban neighborhood Marty lives in is a dump in 2015 compared to 1985. This suggests even the middle class is experiencing a pretty severe decline in living conditions.
- Pizzas are dehydrated, which could be because people have little time to prepare them otherwise, or because fresh water is becoming scarce in 2015 California (sort of like how astronauts use dehydrated food in space).
- Marty's boss managed (somehow) to spy on his video call, which seems like an insane violation of his privacy in his own home, and then feels comfortable immediately revealing himself to Marty and immediately fire him, suggesting labour and privacy laws are almost non existent.
How well did you take to the lessons your parents tried to teach you? I know I barely listened.
And even when I did I made similar mistakes.
My dad told me multiple times to stand up to bullies and they would back off.
I never stood up to my High School bullies.
Not our future no, but then we're just a backwater planet that they sent Diziet Sma to in the 1970s to determine whether or not we're future Culture material. On her advice they determine that they should keep an eye on us without any further Contact/Special Circumstances style interference. That's the short shory known as State of the Art.
In Consider Phlebas' appendix it's revealed thst they do eventually make formal first contact with us in 2100 and reveal to us a document explaining who they are and info about the Idiran War.
You're right about that. Guess it does make sense. What's a useless trip to 2015 if he learns something. Just a shame that Marty caused all that trouble to do it. If he just hadn't dropped that Almanac in that exact spot Doc wouldn't have thrown it in that exact trash can and Biff wouldn't have taken that exact DeLorean. Otherwise Doc wouldn't have seen it until they were already in the car on the way home far away from future Biff.
But I never understood how Biff even figured out how to use the car. It's not like Doc left a manual. There's so many buttons. And how often do people actually drive 90MPH, especially in a normal setting? Biff only knew it was a time machine. Plus it was so considerate of him to actually return it to 2015 when he was done. Plus he's really old at this point.
Of course, that problem would have been solved AGAIN if Marty had stayed in the car. Without a DeLorean Biff can't even use the Almanac anyway.
Guess that's another less he'll learn.
I guess you're right. Though mine never taught me this stuff but in 7th grade (New school as I went to private school from 1st-6th) halfway through the year I finally got tired of being picked on, and snapped. I picked up a chair and screamed that I was gonna break something if they didn't leave me alone. They never picked on me again. Though TBH my school didn't really have the traditional bully groups. They just picked on me because I was quiet and kept to myself.
OP
OP
