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Cactuar

Banned
Nov 30, 2018
5,878
To me it sounds better then most JRPG'S.

The problem is that's an extremely low bar. This is a special game and it should have broken the mold. Square appears from all signs to have hit it out of the park in every avenue, so for them to fail so hard in the English dub area makes it stand out all the more when everything else around it is stellar.
 

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
Yeah its pretty rough. Takes away the dark tone of the game quite a bit.

I mean....Final Fantasy VII is meant to be both dark and silly as shit.

images


I'll repeat what I said in the trailer thread:

It sounds quite awful. I was cringing the whole time. Unnatural, lifeless, and robotic voice acting. And it's not just the voice actors and how they deliver the script. The script itself sounds pretty awful. They're working with what they've got, and what they've got is a mess.

The script sounds so unnatural and so... translated. People simply don't talk like that. No native Engish speaker in their right mind would ever say such things to express whatever is happening. Stuff like: "The stench of the director's cowardice fills the room yet again". I mean really now? Really!? It's an English phrase alright, one you might find in a book, an old one presumably, but no one actually ever speaks like that. Ever.

That's because they're not speaking like native English speakers. They're speaking like Japanese people translated into English.

Just go watch a Japanese song and then read the translated lyrics. It almost sounds like gibberish.



There's not much you can do about the dialogue unless you're willing to make substantial changes.

Final Fantasy VII is my favorite game of all time and has been since I played it for the first time in 1997. I have no need for hyperbole when talking about the greatest game ever made. Now, this is a REMAKE of the greatest game ever made, and it is yet to be determined how close this remake will come to claiming that title, but everything looks amazing, done with care and top notch, EXCEPT the one area where they dropped the ball, the English voice acting. So yes, you absolutely can not have a 10 everywhere else and have the person responsible for voice casting deliver you a 2 at best. This thing sounds like an episode of Scooby Doo or He-Man.

And no, it won't affect me because I will be playing in Japanese. But let's not act like I won't be making multiple runs through this game, I'd like to do my second run in English, but I don't think I can with what I'm hearing. I played the Witcher 3 in English and it has amazing English voice acting, I don't think it's asking too much of Square in 2020 to have something on that level of quality for their flagship title, or - at the very least - something not on the level of quality as a Saturday morning cartoon show.

Final Fantasy VII kind of is a Saturday Morning Cartoon. At least 50% of the time.

PaltrySickDingo-max-1mb.gif


Anyways, the Witcher 3 is a western videogame. JRPGs are not hence why most of them don't sound so good. Japanese is too different from English and videogames are harder to dub than anime is because the way the mouths move are so much more detailed.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,443
Could be a lot worse, and the new cast sounds better to me than the compilation actors overall.

Truth is the only FF games with good vo direction are XII and XIV (and only after they changed actors around Heavensward).
 

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
If cheese is intentional, alright. And I suspected it was during that scene where the chick is using a SOLDIER dude as an ottoman.

But then you have stronger performances that don't have much ham, like Red or Tifa, and it then seems uneven.


I say all this but I was going to likely play with the JPN dub, but I was considering this in ENG.

I'll check out the demo.

Yes, FFVII is cheesy and yes, it is deliberate at times. If you spoke Japanese, you'd notice how cartoony the Japanese acting is too.

Some characters are not cheesy though and others are. Barret is a a quasi-Mr. T parody which is why he talks like that even in the original.
 
Oct 31, 2017
14,991
If cheese is intentional, alright. And I suspected it was during that scene where the chick is using a SOLDIER dude as an ottoman.

But then you have stronger performances that don't have much ham, like Red or Tifa, and it then seems uneven.


I say all this but I was going to likely play with the JPN dub, but I was considering this in ENG.

I'll check out the demo.

It actually reminds me a lot of XIII, which to me is a bizarre (meaning, sometimes it was off-putting) mix of smooth, natural-sounding dialogue and extremely corny lines (both intentionally and unintentionally) that sometimes sound like they could actually come out of someone's mouth, sometimes not.

But maybe I should stop bringing up XIII because everyone loves to have an irrational hate boner for it here
 

Samawati

Member
Sep 15, 2019
216
I think you're mixing up dialogue, or maybe voice direction, with voice acting quality. And I don't mean that to be condescending.
I mean...I'm not. I'm aware that the script was utter shit (and that Square laces their actors' water with opium before recording), but as far as I'm concerned, voice direction and script are at least 50% of a decent performance, if not the lion's share. If they are poor, the acting quality will likely be poor. I've never put that down to the actors, but that doesn't make the performances good, either.
 
Oct 31, 2017
14,991
I mean...I'm not. I'm aware that the script was utter shit (and that Square laces their actors' water with opium before recording), but as far as I'm concerned, voice direction and script are at least 50% of a decent performance, if not the lions' share. If they are poor, the acting quality will likely be poor. I've never put that down to the actors, but that doesn't make the performances good, either.

Can you give me an example of where the performance was poor, or where it felt like the voice actor didn't handle their line well? I can't think of anything, legitimately. I think all the VA's rocked their performances and did the best they could. Again anything that sounded iffy I definitely could chalk that up to not being the actor's fault. Like child Hope's "mommy? Mommy!!" line sounding terrible bc the localization team couldn't be assed to have an actual child voice that line


I remember Lightning's actor doing a pretty good job. However, the rest of the cast I found dodgy. That being said, Snow's actor had to contend with a lot of absurdly melodramatic twaddle in a bunch of his scenes, so a lot of his awkwardness was probably more of a script issue.

hi I just wanted to say that I think you were the one to point out that I didn't fully understand Suikoden III's battle system if I was complaining about someone in a pair attacking even if I chose "Defend." I wanted to slap myself and I had a newfound appreciation for the combat in S3 despite my grievances with it. I also ended up completing the secret chapter, I love the game ❤

(And tbh I also still love Suikoden IV very much, finished that as well)
 

spman2099

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,893
hi I just wanted to say that I think you were the one to point out that I didn't fully understand Suikoden III's battle system if I was complaining about someone in a pair attacking even if I chose "Defend." I wanted to slap myself and I had a newfound appreciation for the combat in S3 despite my grievances with it. I also ended up completing the secret chapter, I love the game ❤

While I do love Suikoden 3, I do not believe I was the person to point that out. That being said, I am stoked that you ended up enjoying it!
 
Oct 31, 2017
14,991
While I do love Suikoden 3, I do not believe I was the person to point that out. That being said, I am stoked that you ended up enjoying it!

I mean I loved most things about the game but I thought the gameplay was really bad. But then I had a newfound appreciation for the combat, as I realized it was more strategic than I initially thought. It was also my first Suikoden so I didn't really "get" a lot of things.
 

¡ B 0 0 P !

Banned
Apr 4, 2019
2,915
Greater Toronto Area
I mean...I'm not. I'm aware that the script was utter shit (and that Square laces their actors' water with opium before recording), but as far as I'm concerned, voice direction and script are at least 50% of a decent performance, if not the lion's share. If they are poor, the acting quality will likely be poor. I've never put that down to the actors, but that doesn't make the performances good, either.

The Star Wars prequel trilogy is an example of this.
 

KingKunta

Member
Nov 10, 2018
103
Why everyone think Barret voice is meh? I dig it, honestly. Lol If anything, I wish it was a lil more "street"
 

Sephiroth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,041
THANK YOU, OP!

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks scrawny baby Cloud and his stupid friends and pet dog and cat all sound annoying.
 

Brooklynwolf

Banned
Jan 5, 2020
140
I mean...I'm not. I'm aware that the script was utter shit (and that Square laces their actors' water with opium before recording), but as far as I'm concerned, voice direction and script are at least 50% of a decent performance, if not the lion's share. If they are poor, the acting quality will likely be poor. I've never put that down to the actors, but that doesn't make the performances good, either.

Well it kinda goes without saying that the fault can't all be placed on shit writing, performance and direction are important too. But not everyone can do a Russel Crowe and do a gladiator (apparently Crowe hated the line "...in this life or the next, I will have my vengeance" so much that after he performed the scene, he told the writer something along the lines of "even I can make your shit dialogue sound good"). In retrospect, that line fits within the context of the movie taking place in an era where most speech have a dramatic, theatricality quality to it...but if you really think about it, it is kind of a corny line.

Performances can only go so far. If a shit script is shit, we can only hope the actors can do their best to minimize the cringe.
 

EarthPainting

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,877
Town adjacent to Silent Hill
Can't say I'm very fond of it either, but it's hard to say how much of it is the fault of the performances and their direction, and how much of the script. Square Enix's pretty uneven when it comes to this stuff. I don't even think it's a money thing, since some of their biggest IPs sound the least natural. I wonder if it's because non-native speakers are more closely involved with the localisation efforts of their bigger projects, like how Hideo Kojima got closely involved with his English releases post-MGS1, or Sakamoto with Other M.
 

Richietto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,994
North Carolina
Ive resigned myself to the fact that SE will never have English voice acting as good as FF12's ever again. Not saying FF7's is bad, its sound pretty good for the most part, still way too anime and KH like but good.
 

asd202

Enlightened
Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,559
I will wait for the full game before passing a judgment but it does sound like all the other SE games. I think it comes from simillar voice direction, probably same studio etc.
 

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
Can't say I'm very fond of it either, but it's hard to say how much of it is the fault of the performances and their direction, and how much of the script. Square Enix's pretty uneven when it comes to this stuff. I don't even think it's a money thing, since some of their biggest IPs sound the least natural. I wonder if it's because non-native speakers are more closely involved with the localisation efforts of their bigger projects, like how Hideo Kojima got closely involved with his English releases post-MGS1, or Sakamoto with Other M.

This is what happened to Neon Genesis Evangelion. Dialogue sounded the most natural in the original rather than the Netflix version.
 

J_ToSaveTheDay

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
18,830
USA
As I've found with many Square-Enix marketing material, the voices are mixed to stand out during the trailers which is something that's pretty rare in actual video games and to me makes this sound a bit awkward from time to time, but based on what I've heard, it'll sound just fine when it's mixed back into all of the sound effects and music during actual gameplay.
 

LonestarZues

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,084
The problem is that's an extremely low bar. This is a special game and it should have broken the mold. Square appears from all signs to have hit it out of the park in every avenue, so for them to fail so hard in the English dub area makes it stand out all the more when everything else around it is stellar.

Fair enough. Point taken. Still not enough though for me personally to bring it down a step in terms of anticipation.
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
After watching it in JP it's clear the latest trailer hadn't had the flaps matched to English (if they're doing that like they did with Crisis Core) because things like Reeve's TERRIBLE delivery was really poor.

I think the voice acting in English is going to cheese up a lot of the script personally. Adult Cloud's voice coming out of baby cloud, Aeris's voice is grating but not nearly as bad as Mena Suvari's take (I preferred the girl in Crisis Core who sounded like a normal girl instead of someone trying to intentionally high pitch their voice, especially that ending line of "I want to help the world. Everyone." which sounded like they went with the first take), Cloud's ridiculously yelling in Part 1, when even when Cloud is talking about the Nibel incident to the group he's just calm and collected and when he meets him several times he's just confused by what he's even seeing (almost as if its foreshadowing something later in the game HMMMMM).

Red XIII wasn't bad but every time I hear something that wasn't in the original script it sounds off too, and things like Jessie being more chipper and waifu bait now makes me want to play majority japanese after I hear the banter in English, because they never subtitle the banter in English in these games (even if they do it for the bombing run).

I think out of the trailers thus far the only characters I like are Palmer, RedXIII and President Shinra, and most of the others are either a downgrade or barely different enough to have warranted the change. I still think 8-4 does better localization work (have no clue who's handling FF7R) and better direction for its VAs, and most of the stuff in the Remake thuse far just sounds like people reading off a script.

I mean....Final Fantasy VII is meant to be both dark and silly as shit.

images




That's because they're not speaking like native English speakers. They're speaking like Japanese people translated into English.

Just go watch a Japanese song and then read the translated lyrics. It almost sounds like gibberish.



There's not much you can do about the dialogue unless you're willing to make substantial changes.



Final Fantasy VII kind of is a Saturday Morning Cartoon. At least 50% of the time.

PaltrySickDingo-max-1mb.gif


Anyways, the Witcher 3 is a western videogame. JRPGs are not hence why most of them don't sound so good. Japanese is too different from English and videogames are harder to dub than anime is because the way the mouths move are so much more detailed.

Then it's a failure of the Localization company to not...do better with the script. Trying to "explain" that JRPGs are supposed to sound stilted like they do in Kingdom Hearts and FF7 does nothing to explain why games like Shadows of Valentia, Nier, etc all have stellar VA and script localization. Your comparison to jpop to actual lyrics makes no sense either.

And NO, FF7 was not "always silly like a saturday morning cartoon" and I wish people would understand the difference between having humor/specific anime takeaways and just being "silly."

FF7 takes itself very seriously in its script when it needs to and anyone who says otherwise is cherry picking. Barret being one of the only bad examples (something I blame on the localization but it was a different time) and the slap fight meaning nothing because it was a minigame, and if we use minigames to judge the rest of the script then everything becomes "silly." There can be "game-y" parts of a game without saying "It was always silly."

Saying "there's not much you can do about the dialogue" is basically asking for the bare minimum and the original script even with the localization errors was solid enough, but the new lines in the newest trailer and the cheesy Sephiroth lines and other lines that have been added weren't even in the original script, so that too, is a terrible comparison to make.

Localization companies exist solely for this reason, just because they did a shit job doesn't mean "that's how it be sometimes"
 
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Suicide King

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,018
I don't know how much you guys know about japanese culture (I'm an expert), but I'm really liking the voice acting. I understand what is being said, I feel the emotions. Nothing to complain about. Also, I like the voice actors:

 
OP
OP

Deleted member 46958

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
2,574
Only meh is Barret i think it's fine. FFXII is the pinnacle and will never be reached again.

But oh wow.

You actually said that.

that was poorly worded, and although i don't have to explain myself, what I meant was that I think I have a good ear for crap VA and good, but i realize now that's not exclusive to just one genre.

So yeah, I said that. What's good? Not that serious.
 
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Samawati

Member
Sep 15, 2019
216
FFXIV reaches the highs of XII if not surpasses.
This evangelising for FFXIV....I admire the hustle lmao. It's kinda working.

I started it late last year and before that, had started a save sometime in early 2018, but never made it past the starting city both times. I never hear anything but good things about it these days, but the UI...the MMO......I can't.
 

Rogote

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,606
It's the basic problem of translating the japanese dialogue to english. Seems like almost each and every JRPG suffers from it. Extensive localisation effort would be needed in order to transform the dialogue into something that sounds more natural and real in english language. The voiceactors themselves are fine, it's the unnatural dialogue mostly at fault. JRPG english dialogue almost always sounds like no one would actually speak that way, and so it does here too. Would be cool to get that FF12 localisation treatment again. I recall that being by far the best in the franchise so far.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,688
This evangelising for FFXIV....I admire the hustle lmao. It's kinda working.

I started it late last year and before that, had started a save sometime in early 2018, but never made it past the starting city both times. I never hear anything but good things about it these days, but the UI...the MMO......I can't.

The UI isn't anything difficult. Only really daunting at the start.
 

AtomicShroom

Tools & Automation
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
3,079
That's because they're not speaking like native English speakers. They're speaking like Japanese people translated into English.

Just go watch a Japanese song and then read the translated lyrics. It almost sounds like gibberish.

Well that's bad, then. The best professional translators will find creative ways of maintaining the original vision/meaning of a script while adapting it so that it sounds fully natural for the intended locale's audience, using local slang, expressions, figures of speech, play on words, etc. You don't just robotically translate a script. You adapt it! That's why Ted Woosley's translation of FF3(6), despite being criticized for not being accurate, was brilliant. I could hear the characters talking in my head and they all sounded like actual English-speaking humans.

I'm reminded of this documentary. Watch it if you haven't!




Edit: Plus, they're not translating a song here. They're translating regular conversations, AND they're given the luxury of 100% redone lip synching too, which removes about any restriction that typical dubs have to contend with.
 
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Cactuar

Banned
Nov 30, 2018
5,878
Fair enough. Point taken. Still not enough though for me personally to bring it down a step in terms of anticipation.

It doesn't dampen my anticipation one bit because I will be playing in Japanese, so this shitty dub will not affect me. It only sucks because now I won't have the option of choosing English for my second playthrough.

Well, I'll have the option, much like I also have the option to douse myself with gasoline and jump in a firepit. Needless to say not all options are worth choosing.
 

Firebrand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,717
This evangelising for FFXIV....I admire the hustle lmao. It's kinda working.

I started it late last year and before that, had started a save sometime in early 2018, but never made it past the starting city both times. I never hear anything but good things about it these days, but the UI...the MMO......I can't.
The quality of voice acting in the base game varies a lot. For the first expansion all (?) the characters were recast and while I miss one or two of the original voices, overall it was an improvement. Like with FFXII there seems to be quite a few stage actors on the cast (last time I counted I recognized 5 actors who have been on HBO's Game of Thrones, including including Joe Dempsie (Gendry) and Michael McElhatton (Roose Bolton) in some significant roles.)
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,688
The quality of voice acting in the base game varies a lot. For the first expansion all (?) the characters were recast and while I miss one or two of the original voices, overall it was an improvement. Like with FFXII there seems to be quite a few stage actors on the cast (last time I counted I recognized 5 actors who have been on HBO's Game of Thrones, including including Joe Dempsie (Gendry) and Michael McElhatton (Roose Bolton) in some significant roles.)

Joe Dempsie is particularly a highlight. Dude kills it.
 

Conrad Link

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,653
New Zealand
Barret is the only one I don't like.

Quite happy with most the others, Cloud's is good!

I always play my JRPGs on English dub, despite being a pretty much sub only Anime watcher. *shrugs* I just like my games English I guess.

Side note: Ever since Xenoblade I've just wished British people did all my RPGs. :P
 

Valkerion

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,245
Sounds mostly fine to me. Shinra being played up as cartoony villains has always kinda been their thing. I do still not like the direction they went with Barret. It's so hammed up compared to most everyone else speaking completely normal.