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Iran calls on Canada to hand over information on crashed Ukrainian plane
- Thread starter .Detective.
- Start date
This was already known in a previous thread.
It was almost certainly an accident (possibly thought they were shooting at a cruise missile retaliation strike) but it wasn't engine failure.
Iran wants the info so the gov can make official declaration and taken measures maybe? Its not like they can destroy evidence. It would still be canadas documented info.
I dont seen why iran wanting the info in itself is bad
I dont seen why iran wanting the info in itself is bad
I don't know if posts are accurate about them bulldozing the crash site.. but..
It wouldn't be hard to believe except Iran is flatly denying the possibility it was a missile strike.
Canada is part of 5 eyes. Most of the intel they have is likely satalite data from the US and UK.
OP
OP
If that is where Canada got its intel, would they even be allowed to divulge anything if they wanted to?
The plane took off in Iran, was shot down in Iran, and the wreckage claimed by Iran, what more do they need? Why do the need spy plane shots or leaked intel from their own government?
We dont known the circumstances of the bulldozing either or if it was intentional. Since the gov is probably scrambling even to find out who shot down the plane without authorization once it came to light that it was shot down.
If we accept that iran was fumbling around over how to act in case of an imminent us strike over about 24hrs.
I am in the camp that some element in iran shot down missle but perhaps not in coordination with main branch of gov unlike the official missle strikes at the iraq base
Since we know many elements in iran act independently unlike official us chain of command
Iran is contributing to the chaos in the Middle East. They just attacked our Embassy. They will most likely sponsor a terror attack in response to this if history is any indication. They don't get to claim the high road. Nor does the US, Saudi, Syria or any other country causing hell in the ME.
Trump/US was WAY out of line with this unprovoked escalation. But Iran is not being a "bigger man". They take a longer view of these things. They are not structured for a military response. They are set up for a proxy attack.
ABC news video confirms they've cleared the entire crash site already.
Provide a link. The only video of the crash site I can find from ABC shows debris all over the place, and is captioned as "debris littering the crash site".
OP
OP
Trudeau's stoic response about that comment when asked today was absolutely ice cold.
"I will let Mr. Trump's words stand for themselves."
Damn.
Let's assume for a moment that Iran has a genuine interest in wanting to understand what caused the plane to come crashing down in a ball of fire.
Why would they need Canadian intelligence to assess how that happened? The plane crashed in their territory, they were able to access the crash site, and they are in possession of the black box for the aircraft (which, incidentally, they are refusing to divulge the contents of). Nothing Canada would provide them would tell them anything they don't already know.
Based off of all of this, it is clear that Iran is not acting in good faith here.
Why would they need Canadian intelligence to assess how that happened? The plane crashed in their territory, they were able to access the crash site, and they are in possession of the black box for the aircraft (which, incidentally, they are refusing to divulge the contents of). Nothing Canada would provide them would tell them anything they don't already know.
Based off of all of this, it is clear that Iran is not acting in good faith here.
Canada accused them of lying about the cause of the crash. Assuming the crash was not caused by an Iranian missile (doesnt seem likely) then it makes perfect sense that they would demand to see Canadian evidence.
god damnit.
It's customary for countries that have lost significant numbers of their citizenry as well as the company who built the plane and related oversight bodies to be part of such an investigation.
From what I've been able to read, Iran hasn't said they wont divulge the contents of the black box. But they have said they wont send it to the US, and since Boeing is a US company, that probably means they wont send it to Boeing.
Can't. It was part of their top story on their 5:30pm broadcast. I'll keep looking on the web.
Friendly reminder that the Iranian government is horrible and run by liars, and pretty much incapable of being on the right side of anything for more than a minute, if only by accident.
Why it not like they can destroy evidence?That is so obviously literally what they want to do.
The fact that they refuse to hand over the black box after a tragedy of this magnitude says everything.
Even people who say they can't hand it to the US government (reasonable) or Boeing because of their relationship with the US government (also reasonable) can't explain why they can't find a neutral third party to examine the evidence.
CNN just said they are handing over black box to ukraine and boeing tommorrow
The situation is a lot more complicated than "iran bad, see"...
the plane crash through a missile attack is a huge fuck up by some one trigger happy down the chain of command, but there are plenty of other factors at play
People trying to turn this into west vs iran politics are not being good faith. There were supposedly 22 planes that went across iran during this stand off without incident. One got attacked accidentally
Here's the broadcast video showing Iran having cleared the crash site.
Utterly embarassing. Trump came in like a bully looking to pick a fight, but Iran comes out looking like the much bigger assholes anyways
We don't know it was accidental and there's no excuse for shooting down a passenger plane. It's not sufficient to say oops sorry guys.
So your saying they intentionally blew up a plane taking off....for what reason?
And your right, there s no excuse for blowing up a passenger flight accidental or not, which is why its such a big deal when this happens. But that's why people have to be cognizant of 'unintended consequences" of their actions indirectly or not
It was an accident. It's not reasonable to think otherwise.
Iran will need to pay out damages to victims families.
When people say it was accidental it's not to absolve Iran's government of guilt. They have blood on their hands due to this. With that said there is zero rationale to think it was anything except a tragic accident. Iran gained nothing by doing this.
There is video footage of a missile striking the plane.
Edit: Ah it was in the previous videos as well.
Edit: Ah it was in the previous videos as well.
What on Earth does Iran gain from this? It was probably a string of tragic errors, which is what people mean when they say it was accidental, not some situation that can be resolved with an apology.
Yep. Even the U.S. and Canada are saying it's most likely accidental, but Iran has to own up. Hiding it isn't a good look.
He was suggesting that it was dumb to be in or to fly a plane around there - despite it being a "dangerous neighborhood" because of his own direct action. Many of the people leaving were leaving on that plane to return to Canada BECAUSE of the raised danger.* Trump effectively created a "bad neighborhood" and then (perhaps inadvertently but utterly thoughtlessly) criticized the people trying to move out of the bad neighborhood and the moving company helping them.
There's zero reason to separate Trump's actions and behaviors and words from the deaths of these people. He may not be directly responsible, but he's absolutely involved and involved in a very directly related fashion and ultimately without cause.
Iran probably shot down the plane, but any conversations about these as unrelated incidents (I'm not accusing you of that btw) is absurd. This is clear cause and effect if you strip out the specific liability. Trump didn't kill those people, aand I wouldn't convict him of a fraction of legal blame, but he very plainly created the very chaotic and horrifying situation that got them killed. I'd certainly think of it as kind of civil liability if we're gonna frame it in legal terms.
* also some citizens were returning quickly because they were concerned not just about physical danger from a brewing conflict, about potential immigration difficulties if they didn't leave while things were relatively calm.
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