Seems utterly ridiculous until you look at the stuff right wingers share with each other.
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Iran admits to shooting down Ukrainian airliner
- Thread starter FriskyCanuck
- Start date
Seems utterly ridiculous until you look at the stuff right wingers share with each other.
Some of you are wacky as shit. We currently have hostilities in NK. If there was some skirmish along the DMZ and the US shot down a civilian aircraft taking off from a SK airport and trump said none of this would have happened if not for NK's DMZ shenanigans none of yall stanning for Iran would be having it.
User Banned (1 week): trolling over a series of posts
This is supposed to be a professional military that guards against invaders for their country... Can't they make nukes? Yet they don't have the capability to tell a civilian airliner from military aircraft?
Yeah, this is all trumps fault! 😂
Yeah, this is all trumps fault! 😂
hard to say since the root of much of the conflict in the Middle East is a thousand year old medieval succession dispute.
It is a pretty disastrous event by Iran. I guess it's a perspective thing, to me and many others it's hard to take this event and abstract it from its context. Not that abstracting it from its context is wrong by any means, anyway.
Laughing emoji?? Really?
How old are you? Read the room for fucks sake
Yeh, I guess what I mean is for most people they aren't going to look back that far when making a determination so while there's merit in pointing out all the context, militarily, politically, and socially most people are going to look at recent escalations to make a reasonable determination of blame.
I haven't really seen anyone say Iran has no responsibility, have people said that?
Cared so much they shot 176 innocent people out of the air.
Can we stop all the cuddly Iran posts?
lol Those idiots have changed some parts of this movie to make a new video from it!
The movie is about incidents of 1980s in Iran and doesn't have anything related to US.
I must imagine you must be quite young to have this kind of attitude regarding human error in a tragic event like this.
This isn't a holloywood movie, life a bit more messier than that.
And that's fine. If this were a thread about the overall geopolitical situation as history of the Middle East and not this plane getting shot down, I would be right there with you talking about the culpability of the United States, the UK, France, and everyone else in the current mess.
But to me this tragedy is a concrete operational failure, not a political one. So that's the logic for my thought process.
You've just admitted they are incapable. The US assassinated one of Iran's top leaders with almost complete impunity, yet here you're (correctly since I agree with you) saying that had Iran retaliated then they'd exist no more. Iran talked a big game and that's what they should have done only, talked. Because that leaves everyone speculating of what they're capable of and keeping everyone on their toes without actually having to play their hand. Instead Iran decided to play it's hand and not only was it a damp squid they couldn't event executed this pathetic of a retaliation without fucking up. It's Keystone Cops/Chuckle Brothers levels of incompetence.
It certainly isn't, I bet the families of those 176 wish it was.
This isn't an isolated incident, it's happened before more than once, and it shouldn't happen, ever.
And all for a pissing contest, two ridiculous men playing my cocks bigger than yours.
The United States army is so big and powerful they can wipe any nation of the face of the Earth. It is twice as big as the armies of the European Union countries, which together are bigger than those of China and Russia. That doesn't make their opponent incapable. The Iranian military is also not specialized in all out warfare, they are experts on guerilla warfare and they are quote good at it if you look how to managed in the Middle East the last 10 years. And they have managed to dominate the region without giving the US a reason to strike back. But if you suggest giving the US a reason to strike back, then yes, they are lost. If they were to act stupid, they would be done.
This scenario you've made up isn't anything like what has happened.
You realized that this entire exchange started with a Iranian backed militia attacking a US base and killing US personnel, right? People who were at the time there at the consent of the Iraqi government.
They warned the Iraqis as they were launching their missiles.
The Iranians aren't Care Bears, but rather a murderous theocratic regime bent on spreading its influence by way of a network of brutal terrorist organizations throughout the region. And if not for outside intelligence sources showing comprehensive evidence that the downing of the jet was due to a missile strike, they would still be denying it to this day.
You think the Iranians care about antagonizing their own citizens? They just murdered 1500 protestors a few months ago.
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Sure, I ain't denying that the US fucked Iran up historically. However, Trump isn't responsible for what happened in the 50s so that part doesn't really apply to him.
Most people aren't trying to talk about the historical meddling of the US in the region, they're just trying to shove the blame on Trump. That's what I'm criticizing: People using the victims' death as a political tool to "score" against Trump, it's just gross. The asshat has done and continue to do plenty enough to hate him without having to make him reponsible for thing that are not his fault. If people want to talk about the historical and current meddling of the US in the region and its effects, by all mean go ahead. It's a pretty legitimate discussion (although people shouldn't try to whitewash Soleimani's actions while trying to criticize the US either).
However, the blame of the downing of this aircraft still lies entirely on Iran's shoulders for reasons I and multiple people have explained before. No amount of US meddling justifies not closing their airpsace to civilian aircrafts while they were conducting a strike against US bases and possibly expecting a US response. Had they done that, 176 people wouldn't have lost their lives and we'd still be talking about how much of a cretin Trump is for killing Soleimani.
Someone smarter at the highest levels must've looked at evidence everyone had, and what outside inspectors would find, and decided "this is stupid".
Um yeah obviously. The intention was to stop a potential threat, not shoting down a civilian plane
Didn't take off from their own territory and get shot down within 2 minutes.
Haha what. The prime minister of Iraq got a verbal warning as the missiles were hitting the bases.
Iran cared enough that they bulldozed what is a mass grave in the matter of hours.
Not sure that has anything do with anything.
Besides nuclear nations also have plenty incompetence in their leaderships.
The military blamed human error. In a statement, it said Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752 had taken a sharp, unexpected turn that brought it near a sensitive military base. Hours later, though, an Iranian official walked back that claim.
"The plane was flying in its normal direction without any error and everybody was doing their job correctly," Gen. Amir Ali Hajizadeh, commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps' airspace unit, said during a televised news conference later Saturday. "If there was a mistake, it was made by one of our members."
The New York Times @nytimes
An Iranian official has walked back the claim that the Ukrainian jet took an unexpected turn and said it was flying in a "normal" direction. Read the latest updates:http://nyti.ms/2skAmhO
1:50 PM - Jan 11, 2020
An Iranian official has walked back the claim that the Ukrainian jet took an unexpected turn and said it was flying in a "normal" direction. Read the latest updates:http://nyti.ms/2skAmhO
1:50 PM - Jan 11, 2020
You can't be the one who starts all this shit then wipe your hands clean of the consequences.
It is Iran's fault, but the US put these events in motion on their own (I mean without consulting allies).
They don't get blame for Iran's incompetence. If Iran retaliates like they did and there's collateral damage at the sites they intended to bomb, that blood is on Trump's hands as well. Shooting down a commercial jet *in their own damn country* is a product of their own stupidity, and they own that alone.
No but I think trump and his supporters are inferior idiots, I also think about his was a tragedy that trump is partially responsible for just like Iran is. Things happen and at least Iran admitted fault so now they should take responsibility and things can move on from there.
nope trump needs to share responsibility as well.
Trump started this whole thing , there's no other way around it.Trying to dismiss what he started is disgusting.
I'm not saying this is a good thing or it's not a Tragedy but I stand by what I say. This doesn't seem like it was a targeted and Iran needs to take responsibility and deal with all the families. Trump and his idiots need to accept responsibility for it as well. There is plenty of blame on each side
Shooting down a commercial airliner at an airport in your own damn country isn't a "Oops, shit happens!" situation. And sure, Iran admitted fault after first denying it like a bunch of lying sacks of shit. How big of them to finally admit they murdered 160+ innocent people.
Nothing about the way Iran has handled this or said makes one damn bit of sense and quit honestly their behavior regarding this tragedy has been abhorrent.
They would have kept quiet but at least they ADMITTED their mistake, unlike trump who hasn't said ANYTHING at all and he's responsible for all this mess.
Look, no one here is in disagreement that Trump is a piece of shit or that he has raised tensions significantly.
But airplanes fly through Terhan all the time. It's not down to Trump to ensure that Iran doesn't shoot one down and then try to hide it.
Now, that's not absolve Trump of any of his despicable actions, but apart from a very general accusation of him creating the background here, in the specific instance of this plane getting shot down he was not involved or a part of it.
They should have known it was a commercial plane. There was many ways for them to check that could only really have failed due to the missile operator crews incompetence.
They didnt keep quiet. They flat out said it wasn't them when they knew it was them, and then they removed all evidence before the Ukranians could inspect it. I don't care how much of an asshole Trump is, this is on Iran's shitty government.
People jumping through fucking hoops for a country that openly kills citizens protesting and spent two days trying to remove evidence of it's responsibility shooting down an airliner.
they admitted it after they were forced to. Not at first when they were straight up lying and then even today they lied about the planes supposedly veering towards a military installation and had to walk that back too
A fight didn't just break out of nowhere. There has been a shoving match going on for a while.
I feel it's more people jumping through hoops to try and claim how US had zero part in this chain of events.
the chain of events yes, but Iran hitting a button to launch a missile at a plane leaving their own airport? That's a massive own goal and I don't think trump fucked with their heads masterfully enough to make them do it. They fucked up and made it clear their operational capacity is a joke.
Correct, which spreads culpability for collateral damage. In this case though, the instigator was America, so it is hard to not place some level of culpability, just like we would on any systemic force that snowballs a situation and produces unintended consequences.