Off to the realms of fan fiction now, Iranian propaganda video shows them killing Trump and blowing up the Capitol:
Seems utterly ridiculous until you look at the stuff right wingers share with each other.
Off to the realms of fan fiction now, Iranian propaganda video shows them killing Trump and blowing up the Capitol:
Do you believe something that happened, say, ten years ago holds as much relevance to the current situation for most people as something from a week ago?
This is supposed to be a professional military that guards against invaders for their country... Can't they make nukes? Yet they don't have the capability to tell a civilian airliner from military aircraft?
Yeah, this is all trumps fault! 😂
I don't disagree with any of this, and I have said much the same in this thread.
The fact that I place the blame for this particular event entirely on Iran does not somehow make all of the other mistakes and wrongs the US has commuted go away, or lessen them.
I just don't agree this airplane being shot down is on anyone but the Iranian government, for the very basic and practical reason that nothing the US has done should have caused the massive and basic operational mistakes that lead this missile to be fired. To me, blaming anyone but Iran means the situation is somehow the cause of this tragedy, when nothing about the geopolitical situation should have impacted the proper functioning of this air defense system.
Laughing emoji?? Really?This is supposed to be a professional military that guards against invaders for their country... Can't they make nukes? Yet they don't have the capability to tell a civilian airliner from military aircraft?
Yeah, this is all trumps fault! 😂
Yeh, I guess what I mean is for most people they aren't going to look back that far when making a determination so while there's merit in pointing out all the context, militarily, politically, and socially most people are going to look at recent escalations to make a reasonable determination of blame.hard to say since the root of much of the conflict in the Middle East is a thousand year old medieval succession dispute.
I haven't really seen anyone say Iran has no responsibility, have people said that?
So Iran is using military technology from 1988. Got it!
Cared so much they shot 176 innocent people out of the air.Actually Iran does care. Don't forget they took the effort to warn Iraq and US forces before shelling those bases. They didn't want to shed blood in their missile attack.
On top of that almost 90% of the passengers who died were Iranian. I think because of that single fact the administration realized they needed to publicly fess up because they didn't want to antagonize their own citizens.
They definitely cared.
lol Those idiots have changed some parts of this movie to make a new video from it!Off to the realms of fan fiction now, Iranian propaganda video shows them killing Trump and blowing up the Capitol:
This is supposed to be a professional military that guards against invaders for their country... Can't they make nukes? Yet they don't have the capability to tell a civilian airliner from military aircraft?
Yeah, this is all trumps fault! 😂
Cared so much they shot 176 innocent people out of the air.
Can we stop all the cuddly Iran posts?
And that's fine. If this were a thread about the overall geopolitical situation as history of the Middle East and not this plane getting shot down, I would be right there with you talking about the culpability of the United States, the UK, France, and everyone else in the current mess.It is a pretty disastrous event by Iran. I guess it's a perspective thing, to me and many others it's hard to take this event and abstract it from its context. Not that abstracting it from its context is wrong by any means, anyway.
You've just admitted they are incapable. The US assassinated one of Iran's top leaders with almost complete impunity, yet here you're (correctly since I agree with you) saying that had Iran retaliated then they'd exist no more. Iran talked a big game and that's what they should have done only, talked. Because that leaves everyone speculating of what they're capable of and keeping everyone on their toes without actually having to play their hand. Instead Iran decided to play it's hand and not only was it a damp squid they couldn't event executed this pathetic of a retaliation without fucking up. It's Keystone Cops/Chuckle Brothers levels of incompetence.Despite that, explicitly not hitting US soldiers still doesn't make them look incapable. Iran wouldn't exist anymore today if they had hit US soldiers.
It certainly isn't, I bet the families of those 176 wish it was.I must imagine you must be quite young to have this kind of attitude regarding human error in a tragic event like this.
This isn't a holloywood movie, life a bit more messier than that.
Truth.Some of you are wacky as shit. We currently have hostilities in NK. If there was some skirmish along the DMZ and the US shot down a civilian aircraft taking off from a SK airport and trump said none of this would have happened if not for NK's DMZ shenanigans none of yall stanning for Iran would be having it.
The United States army is so big and powerful they can wipe any nation of the face of the Earth. It is twice as big as the armies of the European Union countries, which together are bigger than those of China and Russia. That doesn't make their opponent incapable. The Iranian military is also not specialized in all out warfare, they are experts on guerilla warfare and they are quote good at it if you look how to managed in the Middle East the last 10 years. And they have managed to dominate the region without giving the US a reason to strike back. But if you suggest giving the US a reason to strike back, then yes, they are lost. If they were to act stupid, they would be done.You've just admitted they are incapable. The US assassinated one of Iran's top leaders with almost complete impunity, yet here you're (correctly since I agree with you) saying that had Iran retaliated then they'd exist no more. Iran talked a big game and that's what they should have done only, talked. Because that leaves everyone speculating of what they're capable of and keeping everyone on their toes without actually having to play their hand. Instead Iran decided to play it's hand and not only was it a damp squid they couldn't event executed this pathetic of a retaliation without fucking up. It's Keystone Cops/Chuckle Brothers levels of incompetence.
Some of you are wacky as shit. We currently have hostilities in NK. If there was some skirmish along the DMZ and the US shot down a civilian aircraft taking off from a SK airport and trump said none of this would have happened if not for NK's DMZ shenanigans none of yall stanning for Iran would be having it.
You realized that this entire exchange started with a Iranian backed militia attacking a US base and killing US personnel, right? People who were at the time there at the consent of the Iraqi government.This is where I'm falling on this tragedy. An unprecedented, colossal fuckup from Iran, but one that would never have happened if the USA hadn't needlessly provoked them.
My heart goes out to the victims's families. Just an awful, senseless, and heartbreaking way to start 2020, and a grim reminder of how fucked up our world is right now.
Edit: Also, I should add that it's fucking infuriating that Iran lied (and is still lying) about this, and they should not get a pass on it. I hate Trump as much as anyone, and I loathe to think of how he's going to use this tragedy to justify further fuckery, but the dishonesty of Iran is something people SHOULD be pissed about.
They warned the Iraqis as they were launching their missiles.Actually Iran does care. Don't forget they took the effort to warn Iraq and US forces before shelling those bases. They didn't want to shed blood in their missile attack.
On top of that almost 90% of the passengers who died were Iranian. I think because of that single fact the administration realized they needed to publicly fess up because they didn't want to antagonize their own citizens.
They definitely cared.
1)There's a clean line of our current issues in the middle east to our inventionalism tho. Modern Iran is because the supposed bastion of freedom overthrew a democratically elected government in Iran in 1950 which lead to the 1979 revolution. Digging into history there's hella quid pro qui but the chain stops and the buck 100% stops with us.
2)Trump, and lets be honest the country as a whole is an extremely destabalizing force in the world. I don't fool myself because as a citizen I reap the benefits (some).
3)The easy post is 'Iran shot down an airplane and killed 200 people' with everyone replying with outrage and we all circle jerk each other about how a country murdering 200 people is fucked up but that's not really a discussion.
Going back to why point 1 and why we cant focus on this incident on the surface how its 100% iran's fault is that the US does a really bad (but really good for our soft power) at whitewashing its history to continually absolve itself of any wrong doing and honestly this fits into the same pattern. You guys look at it as looking to blame, from my perspective its just trying to get people to see the patterns. We are outraged because Iran dropped a crazy ball in a way that feeds personal nightmares (a plane crash hits home), but an errant missile strike would have been a shrug.
Hell, the truth is if that plane was 200% iran owned with iranian citizens this post wouldn't be as popping.
We need to focus in Iran, but ignoring the US's role as if we magically got here because of evil Iran misses the point. We absolutely have been a force for evil in the world post WWII, but we insist we are always the good guys. And I get it, as a citizen (even a POC one) I reap those benefits. But I have no doubts what we are.
Someone smarter at the highest levels must've looked at evidence everyone had, and what outside inspectors would find, and decided "this is stupid"."Scientifically impossible"
"Yeah we did it"
Fucking assholes. Actually shocked they admitted it though.
Um yeah obviously. The intention was to stop a potential threat, not shoting down a civilian plane"unintentionally" Obviously it was intentional, they meant to shoot it down, they just didn't know what exactly it was that they were shooting down.
Didn't take off from their own territory and get shot down within 2 minutes.
Actually Iran does care. Don't forget they took the effort to warn Iraq and US forces before shelling those bases. They didn't want to shed blood in their missile attack.
On top of that almost 90% of the passengers who died were Iranian. I think because of that single fact the administration realized they needed to publicly fess up because they didn't want to antagonize their own citizens.
They definitely cared.
Actually Iran does care. Don't forget they took the effort to warn Iraq and US forces before shelling those bases. They didn't want to shed blood in their missile attack.
On top of that almost 90% of the passengers who died were Iranian. I think because of that single fact the administration realized they needed to publicly fess up because they didn't want to antagonize their own citizens.
They definitely cared.
Yeah I don't want these fuckers having anything even resembling nukes.
Yeah I don't want these fuckers having anything even resembling nukes.
You can't be the one who starts all this shit then wipe your hands clean of the consequences.There isn't. One party shot the plane down. The attempt to deflect blame is pathetic.
They don't get blame for Iran's incompetence. If Iran retaliates like they did and there's collateral damage at the sites they intended to bomb, that blood is on Trump's hands as well. Shooting down a commercial jet *in their own damn country* is a product of their own stupidity, and they own that alone.You can't be the one who starts all this shit then wipe your hands clean of the consequences.
It is Iran's fault, but the US put these events in motion on their own.
No but I think trump and his supporters are inferior idiots, I also think about his was a tragedy that trump is partially responsible for just like Iran is. Things happen and at least Iran admitted fault so now they should take responsibility and things can move on from there.If you think Iranians are intellectually inferior idiots who just fire off shots in all directions at a jump then yeah, you"d be right.
nope trump needs to share responsibility as well.They don't get blame for Iran's incompetence. If Iran retaliates like they did and there's collateral damage at the sites they intended to bomb, that blood is on Trump's hands as well. Shooting down a commercial jet *in their own damn country* is a product of their own stupidity, and they own that alone.
Pleasantly surprised to see that they admitted it. Never thought that would happen.
God I am getting so tired of this shit.
This is 100% Iran's fault. The blood of these 176 people is on their hands. It was their missile, fired by their crew, inside their airspace, at an aircraft who had just taken off from their capital. It was their crew who failed to identify an aircraft with a heading coming from Tehran (instead of going toward it), while climbing at a speed that would not be the speed of a cruising military craft. It was their failure to not close their airpsace to civilian aircrafts while they were launching strike and possibly expecting a US retaliation.
The downing of this aircraft is all on Iran. All of it.
"Bu-but! If the orange turd hadn't killed that one general, none of this would have happened!". Yeah, and if their hadn't been a strike against US assets earlier then the shistain in chief wouldn't have killed him in retaliation. And if the US hadn't done thing XYZ, then the Iranians wouldn't have attacked US assets. And if the Iranians hadn't done thing ABC, then the US wouldn't have done thing XYZ, and if...
You can go a very, very long way playing this blame game. Like, decades back. In these situations, the blame should go to the perpetrator. And in this one, that's all on Iran. Full stop.
The orange fuckhead already does more than enough on his own to get some much deserved hate, you don't need to shove the responsability of an horrible event on him when it's not his fault.
Doing otherwise is quite frankly disgusting and vastly disrespectful to the 176 victims of this tragedy. Stop using their death as a pawn in your game of hate chess against Trump.
No but I think trump and his supporters are inferior idiots, I also think about his was a tragedy that trump is partially responsible for just like Iran is. Things happen and at least Iran admitted fault so now they should take responsibility and things can move on from there.
I'm not saying this is a good thing or it's not a Tragedy but I stand by what I say. This doesn't seem like it was a targeted and Iran needs to take responsibility and deal with all the families. Trump and his idiots need to accept responsibility for it as well. There is plenty of blame on each side
Shooting down a commercial airliner at an airport in your own damn country isn't a "Oops, shit happens!" situation. And sure, Iran admitted fault after first denying it like a bunch of lying sacks of shit. How big of them to finally admit they murdered 160+ innocent people.No but I think trump and his supporters are inferior idiots, I also think about his was a tragedy that trump is partially responsible for just like Iran is. Things happen and at least Iran admitted fault so now they should take responsibility and things can move on from there.
nope trump needs to share responsibility as well.
I agreeShooting down a commercial airliner at an airport in your own damn country isn't a "Oops, shit happens!" situation.
This doesn't make any sense to me.
The track originated inside Iran. Presumably -- even (especially) in high-tension scenarios -- the Iranian military, as well as the elements that manage its national airspace system, would recognize that. Even if a malfunction occurred and the aircraft in question went NORDO or jerked in such a manner that put its heading on an IRGC target...
... Iran knew what track it was: civilian airliner, UKR flagged, number of souls onboard, originating within Iran with an outbound destination.
This is 100% Iran's fault. Full stop. It's negligence more than anything else. What it suggests to me is that there weren't sufficient protocols in place to establish a proper engagement authority for that kind of aircraft.
You'd think that firing on a civilian airliner -- with Iranian citizens! -- would require approval from the highest levels in the Iranian chain of command. That didn't appear to happen. This suggests to me that either: (1) robust protocols, such as those developed in the U.S. after 9/11, didn't exist; or (2) someone tragically jumped the gun, and that decision had to be informed by a lack of chatter on whatever communications system existed that managed their national airspace.
They would have kept quiet but at least they ADMITTED their mistake, unlike trump who hasn't said ANYTHING at all and he's responsible for all this mess.Shooting down a commercial airliner at an airport in your own damn country isn't a "Oops, shit happens!" situation. And sure, Iran admitted fault after first denying it like a bunch of lying sacks of shit. How big of them to finally admit they murdered 160+ innocent people.
I'm not saying this is a good thing or it's not a Tragedy but I stand by what I say. This doesn't seem like it was a targeted and Iran needs to take responsibility and deal with all the families. Trump and his idiots need to accept responsibility for it as well. There is plenty of blame on each side
They didnt keep quiet. They flat out said it wasn't them when they knew it was them, and then they removed all evidence before the Ukranians could inspect it. I don't care how much of an asshole Trump is, this is on Iran's shitty government.They would have kept quiet but at least they ADMITTED their mistake, unlike trump who hasn't said ANYTHING at all and he's responsible for all this mess.
They would have kept quiet but at least they ADMITTED their mistake, unlike trump who hasn't said ANYTHING at all and he's responsible for all this mess.
A fight didn't just break out of nowhere. There has been a shoving match going on for a while.Let me get this idiocy straight.
You walk up to me and start a fight, I swing and accidentally hit the guy next to us as I am defending myself, the entire situation is my fault?
lol. That is some major mental gymnastics to save the Trump administration from moral culpability
People jumping through fucking hoops for a country that openly kills citizens protesting and spent two days trying to remove evidence of it's responsibility shooting down an airliner.
I feel it's more people jumping through hoops to try and claim how US had zero part in this chain of events.
Correct, which spreads culpability for collateral damage. In this case though, the instigator was America, so it is hard to not place some level of culpability, just like we would on any systemic force that snowballs a situation and produces unintended consequences.A fight didn't just break out of nowhere. There has been a shoving match going on for a while.