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Iran admits to shooting down Ukrainian airliner
- Thread starter FriskyCanuck
- Start date
No idea, but I know that our government here in Sweden raised the number of victims from the initial 10 to 17 yesterday.
Well they at least had to admit it, unlike USA in the last 60 years. I don't think any justice will be made after this sadly.
Thanks, that would make sense even if the death toll now changes to +1.
Whether you realize it or not, your posts are basically apologism for American militarism using right wing talking points.
The dude's record is an irrelevant part of the discussion here
As is Iran's human rights record.
Yet you keep bringing these things up
They've were actually less honest than us and somewhat more apologetic.
The United States always admitted it shot down Iran Flight 655, it was never in contention. What we didn't do however was properly apologize, Reagan said it was regrettable during an interview, or something along those lines and said that, sure, Iran could take that as an apology after a reporter asked if it was meant to be an apology but there was no Presidential briefing where we apologized to the world or anything like that. We also did not financially compensate the victims of that flight until 8(?) years later after Iran dragged us to court. Neither of us, in admitting we shot down an airliner have been full on mea culpa, we both have essentially blamed the other party, Iran's was more an admission of guilt than ours, our initial statement made it sound like an act of nature that couldn't have been helped with a few lies for good measure and though we did do it we did nothing wrong, Iran admits they fucked up but still had to blame the US partly and are saying that the flight veered off the normal route, which hasn't been shown to be the case yet.
I think at this point the Iranians were going to try and cover it up until they got called out, which we didn't do.
This is really naive. The real world isn't a movie.
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People were making baseless claims, saying things like they're 100% certain. Doesn't matter if you're right, without more information its open season to make any claim. After the bellingcat analysis though, its hardly conspiracy theory territory anymore.
A thing everyone should realize is, guessing is not knowing even if you sometimes guess correctly.
They tried to dismiss any of the claims yesterday and the days prior
Example Occam's Razor scenario:
Iran hastily responds to the assassination by launching symbolic strikes at Erbil airbase. The intent is to show their own citizens that they won't accept American aggression but a combination of internal public dissent and a legitimate concern that Trump is crazy and/or deliberately trying to start a proper full scale war — makes them cautious. So Iranian plan is highly visible action with no casualties intended.
as it executes the strike it activates hasty contingency for reciprocal action from the US because the fear is that Trump is looking for an excuse to actually invade or attack the Nation.
the contingency has inadequate and confusing scenarios for air traffic and air defense.
an anti air missile unit is told that while unlikely a us bombing or missile strike is nonetheless very plausible and Tehran and infrastructure including airports are viable targets
it's even possible that ironically— air traffic was allowed to continue to act as a shield because America wouldn't risk international casualties — that unit is given faulty or inadequate information about safe or permitted transponder and flight id for inbound and outbound civilian traffic - and that anything not on a list or pinging transponder correctly may be hostile munitions or aircraft retaliating for erbil as a pretense or excuse for Gulf War III (or simply an incompetent or panicky unit commander with a hair trigger fucks up)
If we dump Occam in favor of low intensity tinfoil headgear: it's even possible that an internal or external saboteur created the mistake scenario for its own ends- a hawkish Iranian military leader or belligerent nation
Another criminal attack, hopefully people will be punished to the full extent, rather than the MH17 debacle that got swept under the carpet.
If there is anything to learn from this it's that super powers need to stop running proxy quasi-wars and airlines need to take these quasi-wars more seriously and stop over flying conflict zones.
If there is anything to learn from this it's that super powers need to stop running proxy quasi-wars and airlines need to take these quasi-wars more seriously and stop over flying conflict zones.
thats in there to take pressure off them, it doesn't make them less accountable but they earn sympathy points from sympathetic ears.
whatever, its already impressive they admitted they shot it down. in a fake news era no less.
Nah now they're really trying to move the goal post and take off some pressure. Not a good look.
IRAN: Let us blame the people doing literally everything they're supposed to do as civilians despite our gross incompetence.
I mean there's no way they didn't know immediately, it's rather clear they intended to cover it up.
It's absolute bs designed to blame the pilots when in fact it's their own fucking fault.
Also this bs about war crimes is some hot garbage. Does Assad get a pass for throwing gas on civilians stuck with his enemies?
Oh I guess I missed that, well damn.
I can hate Trump while simultaneously not treating Iran's bullshit with kid gloves. Why can't you?
we'll see how Iran responds in the coming weeks - in terms of reparations and prosecution. they're very much in the business of outsourcing their dirty business to proxies, so i'm curious to see how they'll handle this direct dilemma.
their chief aviation officer said it was "technically impossible" that such a thing happens. fucking farce
? whatever you're reading between the lines, trust me its not there.
Iran is not a distressed person in the aftermath of a violent assault. It is a nation-state. Iran could have suspended flights in preparation for war, but did not. Iran shot down a flight that literally took off from their own international airport on a predetermined route.
If Iran was worried about U.S retaliation, they should have suspended flights to prevent risk of civilian casualties.
I don't block people I disagree with. I block people I vehemently disagree with. That's the whole point of the ignore feature.
You're a lifesaver. Might not work on mobile, but it'll do for desktop at least.
Yeah, I'm not. American militarism didn't shot down this plane, Iran's militarism and lack of basic care did.
MH17 had some key differences. One, it was mid-flight, two, Russia could always attempt to blame the rebel forces or fuck they tried blaming Ukraine. No dice here.
Here the plane took off from their own fucking airport and went down 30 seconds in over a heavily populated zone. You have pictures, videos of the missile being fired at the plane.
Here the plane took off from their own fucking airport and went down 30 seconds in over a heavily populated zone. You have pictures, videos of the missile being fired at the plane.
Yes. That was embarrassing , to be honest. The timing was very hard to ignore.
But America is also at fault for setting tensions so high to begin with.
As if the American government could predict this. How about the airlines that decide to fly over areas that are heated?
And Iran is at fault for propagating decades of sectarian violence in the region
And the Americans are at fault at their foreign policy in the Middle East
etc
we can do this forever. there's no point in assigning blame to the tertiary entities, because nobody is clean in this mess.
So essentially it would be shot down regardless of the United States escalation, then?
Day of the Iranian missile retaliation (hours below the Ukrainian flight crashed), the FAA moved to ban U.S airlines flying above Iraq, Iran, the Gulf of Oman, and the Persian Gulf. Prior to that, they had banned flights over Iraq below a certain height, and banned flights over the area Iran downed a drone a few months ago.
How can any of you defend Iran over this when the U.S, who arguably owns whatever airspace it wants should it need to, goes ahead and bans flights.
So we are just not going to agree, because "high tensions" didn't shot that plane down. A basic failure of proper procedure and care did.
No matter the tension, this shouldn't have happened. There are any number of steps that should have been taken to prevent this. This is an incredible operational failure of Iran's anti-air system.
What I'm trying to get at is blaming the Iran government 100% ignores everything surrounding the situation, which some of us don't seem to understand. But yes, it does seem we're going in circles.
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And Iran admits it was shot down because of altitude and trajectory towards a sensitive military base. That means it would have been shot down regardless of tensions unless tensions made the pilot and airline choose that course.
Not really, if this was in a peaceful time, I'd imagine they'll hail the plane and warn them first.
I was going to post in the last thread, and just say that none of us have the details, but my own gut feeling was Occam's Razor: an accidental shooting during heightened tensions, but then I didn't want to be dogpiled, because it's such an Era thing to do.