Understanding that in this context, the situation has US involvement at the heart of it =/= Absolving Iran.
It's not rocket science.
Precisely.
Understanding that in this context, the situation has US involvement at the heart of it =/= Absolving Iran.
It's not rocket science.
Agree completely with the first part of this post. I don't really the blame game brings much illumination here. The greater lesson, and it's a very old one, is that two opposed military states creating a state of heightened tension and fear in each other's spheres of control can lead to tragedy and death because you are then depending on the cool judgment and capabilities of untold numbers of soldiers, bureaucrats, and civilian functionaries to make all the right decisions to avoid catastrophe. One or two fuckups and this is what you get, or worse.The precise reason why so many are opposed to rash military actions is because of the unintended series of events they can instigate. Every decision to escalate heightens the odds of tragedy, purposeful or otherwise. That is why I believe the U.S. shares the blame in this tragedy.
Excuses me? Yes it is. Soleimani has personally ordered the deaths of countless Americans, Iraqis, Syrians, Iranians, and more.No, that isn't the case. No matter how much "the militia is backed by them" is thrown.
Who is defending American militarism?
If you want to stop defending mass murderers, stop defending the entire US executive branch, past and present, who are all just as culpable and guilty in the murders of millions.Please stop defending mass murderers. Soleimani wasn't killed for being strong, he was killed because he killed Americans.
I don't see how an example of the systemic devaluing of human life by the Iranian government isn't relevant to a thread about their lack of adequate care for human life.
It's good to finally admit that you literally only care when it's an American life being taken though, how many brown people are equal to one American life?He's a mass murder of Americans. What other explanation are you looking for?
Youre literally bringing up biblical characters in your reasons for the current geopolitical situation in Iran, this is in the level of George Bush bringing up Gog and Magog for some stupid clash of the civilisations shitExcuses me? Yes it is. Soleimani has personally ordered the deaths of countless Americans, Iraqis, Syrians, and Iranians.
Who is defending American militarism?
No one in this conflict is a good guy, it's just different types of bad and the people that suffer because of it.
Sucks to be the guy who was told that American bombers would be coming in any minute to fuck their shit up and shot down the first thing that entered military airspace. The person who first leaked the footage of the attack is fucked as well.
The fuck? First of all where am I defending Trump, and secondly where did I say I only care about Americans? I said the US government acted because the death of Americans.If you want to stop defending mass murderers, stop defending the entire US executive branch, past and present, who are all just as culpable and guilty in the murders of millions.
It's good to finally admit that you literally only care when it's an American life being taken though, how many brown people are equal to one American life?
That was obviously a fanatical example of how far back you can trace this conflict.Youre literally bringing up biblical characters in your reasons for the current geopolitical situation in Iran, this is in the level of George Bush bringing up Gog and Magog for some stupid clash of the civilisations shit
Excuses me? Yes it is. Soleimani has personally ordered the deaths of countless Americans, Iraqis, Syrians, Iranians, and more.
Who is defending American militarism?
No one in this conflict is a good guy, it's just different types of bad and the people that suffer because of it.
Placing the blame entirely on Iran in this scenario is a defense of Trumps horrid foreign policy actions in the region and the entire lead up to the events, willingly overlooking history in regards to current political actions is the height of American arrogance.The fuck? First of all where am I defending Trump, and secondly where did I say I only care about Americans? I said the US government acted because the death of Americans.
You do your argument no service by willfully misrepresenting others.
The deaths of the innocent don't matter to these people, it's just point scoring for their "team".
I don't see your point? Does this statement make Soleimani any less a monster? He's just a monster with company.Cool, so I'll wait to see the heads of those that ordered US intervention in my country for the dead of thousands, sponsored by the US since they are the only ones who can do that.
He's a mass murder of Americans. What other explanation are you looking for?
I don't see your point? Does this statement make Soleimani any less a monster? He's just a monster with company.
Could you please delete the poll? It's tasteless and doesn't add anything.I don't see your point? Does this statement make Soleimani any less a monster? He's just a monster with company.
The history of the region didn't shot down this plane.Placing the blame entirely on Iran in this scenario is a defense of Trumps horrid foreign policy actions in the region and the entire lead up to the events, willingly overlooking history in regards to current political actions is the height of American arrogance.
He's a mass murder of Americans. What other explanation are you looking for?
You do your argument no service by willfully misrepresenting others.
Yep.Understanding that in this context, the situation has US involvement at the heart of it =/= Absolving Iran.
It's not rocket science.
Despite all the high-tech wizardry of modern warfare, human nature makes war messy. Military analysts describe a "fog" that sets in over the battlefield, making it difficult to rationally make decisions or assess facts, often resulting in miscalculation that results in unforeseeable consequences.
"How can it happen? The crew talked themselves into things that simply were not true," said John "Fozzy" Miller, a retired Navy admiral and former commander for U.S. naval forces in the Persian Gulf, referring to the USS Vincennes incident. "It's not because they had the wrong intent. It's because they felt like they could be under attack… and you just begin to see things that really aren't there."
Miller, who's now an associate fellow for the International Institute for Strategic Studies, cited the post-accident investigation done by the Navy that pointed to a kind of "group psychosis" that gripped the ship's crew that was constantly scanning the skies for an Iranian attack. Even when using sophisticated anti-aircraft systems, like the Vincennes' then-state-of-the-art Aegis Weapons System, a scared crew "can override all of that sophisticated information, and see something as an enemy target," Miller said.
Fred Kagan, director of the Critical Threats Project at the right-leaning American Enterprise Institute think tank, says it would be a "humiliation" if Iran proves to have shot down a commercial jet with dozens of its own citizens onboard.
"It badly undermines their image of professionalism and quality of the air defense force around Tehran, which you would have thought are the best and most reliable forces they have," he told TIME Thursday.
I don't see your point? Does this statement make Soleimani any less a monster? He's just a monster with company.
When did I say he should have been assassinated by the US?Is Trump a monster ? Should he be assassinated by the US government?
They mean that if Americans love this bad guy accountability shit, they should start by looking at their own home base.
The history of the region didn't shot down this plane.
Blame the US for all the shit they have done, but this historic and tragic fuckup is the result of a very basic breakdown in the Iranian military and civilian air traffic and defense system. Period.
...Are you actually defending Soleimani?It would seem you only care about those that Soleimani killed, that's the point. The world has seen how much the US has fucked places, killed, allowed atrocities, destroyed societies, etc. we are tired of giving the US a pass. If your world is black and white, maybe this will sound "making Soleimani less a monster".
Who is saying otherwise?They mean that if Americans love this bad guy accountability shit, they should start by looking at their own home base.
Why are you putting quotes around a word I never used?Period? Why are you acting like your opinion on this is the final word? Many people in this thread obviously think the greater context is important, but you keep dismissing their viewpoints as "useless."
Sigh. I don't see how?Matt I'm not sure if you're aware but you are gaslighting in here
Who is saying otherwise?
Why are you putting quotes around a word I never used?
Why because you don't agree with them? It's not like he's being a total ass. I don't know how you're able to function in the real world if his replies require and ignore.
When a demented megalomaniac is in control of one of the world's largest armies and threatens your country (and has already provoked by assassinating their top general!), it's easy to see how the mistake was made. The blame is equal. To say Iran is 100% at fault is ignorance to a level where I do not wish to interact with them any further.Eh, what? It's not like he's saying anything malicious. That is exactly what happened.
Uh huh, but accountability for non Americans seems to be drone strike to the face, yet every former President walks free. You're saying that the US acted (by bombing a sovereign country) to a threat, yet the US have people doing the exact same thing, directly or indirectly, yet no one is droning them.
Because I think they are wrong, just like they think I am? Your question doesn't make much sense to me, can you explain?I thought you said useless, but you in actuality you said "pointless." Thesaurus.com lists them as synonyms. Sue me.
Now could you answer my question?
Why are you talking like I'm ok with that?Uh huh, but accountability for non Americans seems to be drone strike to the face, yet every former President walks free.
For real.Meaningless point scoring over the unnecessary deaths of innocents
Because I think they are wrong, just like they think I am? Your question doesn't make much sense to me, can you explain?
I haven't accused anyone of anything, I asked one person a question based on their post.No one has defended Soleimani in the thread and yet you keep accusing people of things like this. It's pretty disgusting, to be frank.
Well clearly my language doesn't shut down discussion, as we are still discussing things right now.That doesn't answer my question. I'm asking why YOU are using language that shuts down discussion and positions your answers as all that needs to be said about this subject.
This.Understanding that in this context, the situation has US involvement at the heart of it =/= Absolving Iran.
It's not rocket science.
I think I'd rather go to sleep than try to solve the continuing effects of colonialism and free agency tonight.