Iran admits to shooting down Ukrainian airliner

[WestEgg]

Can't think of a much bigger mistake than shooting down a plane full of innocent people. Their explanation doesn't make much sense by the way. They said they shot it down because it was turning where it shouldn't have and at a suspicious altitude, but from my understanding, the plane didn't turn until after it was hit.

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The only way Iran's response could have been more fucked up is if they actually had managed to provoke a US military response. All they've done is kill hundreds of people between the state funerals deaths and shooting down the airline. They had the perfect opportunity to show they would not be intimidated by the US and come out of this the sympathetic party, and just fucked everything up. It's incredible how bad this is. And no, I'm not condoning or excusing president Fuckwad, but Jesus Christ Iran, how did you fuck this up?

 

[littleworm]

Can't think of a much bigger mistake than shooting down a plane full of innocent people. Their explanation doesn't make much sense by the way. They said they shot it down because it was turning where it shouldn't have and at a suspicious altitude, but from my understanding, the plane didn't turn until after it was hit.

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Even if it is true that the Airline made a mistake in its flight path, if you are at such a high state of alert that you can't be bothered the verify what you are shooting at just a scant 10 or so miles from your country's largest airport, you have a moral obligation to ground all flights and restrict your airspace to all air traffic so this very thing doesn't happen. To not do so is just an total disregard for civilian life.

 

[Rover]

The analogy you're looking for is that an arsonist sets a night club on fire. As people attempt to flee the burning club, the staff block a fire exit and get a bunch of people killed.

Do you absolve the arsonist of all wrongdoing in that case? Of course not, but you obviously don't ignore that people in charge of things are supposed to be trained to not make stupid decisions under panic.

 

[Deleted member 4552]

Wartime excuses have been used to basically downplay a lot of shit within war. Justifying shooting down a plane full of non-combatants with "it's wartime" is the laziest, most awful thing ever. Like, it's how people just get over the fact the United States drones civilians because, "hey, it's wartime". No. It doesn't matter.

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I don't understand what you don't get.

Iran didn't do this on purpose.
The individual soldier or soldiers responsible for this (if the system isn't auto or semi automatic) did not intend it.

You keep writing about it like it was intentional.

Iran fucked up, it fine and rational to be angry with them for being able to make such a terrible mistake that literally led to hundred of needless deaths but the people who did that didn't think to themselves that morning, I'm going shoot a passenger plane out of the sky.

You're confusing the concept of explaining how and why something happened to justifying or excusing it.

 

[32X4LYF]

there's a timeline that goes much further back than what Trump did.

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Ayyy you get it. I said the same thing the other day. How far back do you go spelunking for blame. Cause there is quite a history of decisions that have brought the two to this point.

 

[Deleted member 19003]

Statement from Iran's official news agency: https://www.irna.ir/news/83628809/اطلاعیه-ستادکل-نیروهای-مسلح-در-خصوص-سقوط-هواپیمای-مسافربری-خطوط

Google translate, if someone who can read the language can provide a more accurate translation please do so


While it's good that they're finally admitting to it this release is full of shit. There were 0 reports of US airstrikes on targets in Iran and Flightradar24 data suggest the plane never made a turn before being hit as connection to plane was lost just 2 minutes after take-off when the plane was still flying in a straight line https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/...2-crashes-shortly-after-take-off-from-tehran/

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Pathetic. At least they finally admit it (in the face of overwhelming evidence!), but the blatant lies are insulting.

 

[krazen]

Wartime excuses have been used to basically downplay a lot of shit within war. Justifying shooting down a plane full of non-combatants with "it's wartime" is the laziest, most awful thing ever. Like, it's how people just get over the fact the United States drones civilians because, "hey, it's wartime". No. It doesn't matter.

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So is there a wartime scenario in your mind where civilians don't die by the masses? Because that's never happened, lol.

Its no excuse, but it comes part of the package hence why the original assassination outrage. Which is why we circle back starting a wartime conflict will always lead to civilian death and tragedies like this. This was a spectacular fuckup on Iran's part, but using your example it could easily be Iran launching a strike to hit a US base that hits an Iraqi hospital, or the US launching a missile trying to hit a defacto Iran stronghold and hitting a hospital instead, Same 200 people dead. War is fucked

 

[Deleted member 43]

There were no mistaken airlines shot down before? Didnt the US blow up a Iranian passenger flight in the 80s?

https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.co...us-shootdown-of-iranian-airliner-flight-655­/

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Did that flight take off from a US airport?

Flight 655 was a HUGE fuckup and tragedy, but it actually isn't in the same level of failure as this. There were effectively double the safeguards to prevent this from happening.

 

[LebGuns]

Imagine being scared of US retribution so much you down a commercial flight. Their whole tough guy facade has fallen off, and at the expense of innocent lives. Jesus what a travesty.

 

[Arex]

Can't think of a much bigger mistake than shooting down a plane full of innocent people. Their explanation doesn't make much sense by the way. They said they shot it down because it was turning where it shouldn't have and at a suspicious altitude, but from my understanding, the plane didn't turn until after it was hit.

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I can. Bombing hospitals full of people, weddings full of people, schoolbus full of children getting bombed, Etc etc. Accidental shooting down is just more high profile, but in these situation innocents get killed all the time and it fucking sucks.

 

[Deleted member 4552]

This has never happened before because it's an absolutely incredible display of abject failure.

This is on Iran. They fucked up in an incalculable number of ways.

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This has happened many times before.

The US (to an Iranian plane.)
The Russians illegally in Ukraine shot MH17 thinking it was Ukraining Military Transport ( and tried to cover it up)
The British (Shot down andAerlingus plane in the 70s off the west of Ireland) (and never admitted it.)
And other incidents.

 

[Deleted member 43]

This has happened many times before.

The US (to an Iranian plane.)
The Russians illegally in Ukraine
The British (Shot down and Aerlingus plane in the 70s)
And other incidents.

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Again, none of those flights were shot down moments after taking off from the same nation's airport.

 

[pj-]

I'll wait for more reliable sources, thanks

 

[Inuhanyou]

Did that flight take off from a US airport?

Flight 655 was a HUGE fuckup and tragedy, but it actually isn't in the same level of failure as this. There were effectively double the safeguards to prevent this from happening.

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So...your saying that the US military shooting down an iranian plane by accident is not the same as Iran shooting down their own plane by accident?

 

[Mike Works]

Can we fucking stop with this? This is 100% Iran's fault.

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As a Canadian, this gets a big nope from me. America has blood of these passengers on its hands too.

 

[Surakian]

Fuck Iran and fuck Trump and every single leader that allowed him to make the decisions that escalated things in the first place and made Iran so nervous and trigger-happy. Innocent people had to die for something they weren't even involved with.

 

[Deleted member 43]

So...your saying that the US military shooting down an iranian plane by accident is not the same as Iran shooting down their own plane by accident?

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In terms of the number of systemic failures that had to occur? No, it's not. This situation has not happened before.

 

[RedMercury]

I'll wait for more reliable sources, thanks

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Do you not think they shot it down? It's been confirmed by multiple countries.

 

[Deleted member 43]

As a Canadian, this gets a big nope from me. America has blood of these passengers on its hands too.

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The level of rope people are willing to give the government of Iran is astonishing.

 

[subpar spatula]

I don't understand what you don't get.

Iran didn't do this on purpose.
The individual soldier or soldiers responsible for this (if the system isn't auto or semi automatic) did not intend it.

You keep writing about it like it was intentional.

Iran fucked up, it fine and rational to be angry with them for being able to make such a terrible mistake that literally led to hundred of needless deaths but the people who did that didn't think to themselves that morning, I'm going shoot a passenger plane out of the sky.

You're confusing the concept of explaining how and why something happened to justifying or excusing it.

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When people bring up, "high tensions" and "wartime" it does lessen the impact of how bad Iran is at fault here.

Why did this happen? Iran had poor procedures in place to identify a fucking passenger plane leaving their fucking capital airport. High tensions do not matter (they even state it was shot down due to its altitude and trajectory towards a sensitive military installation so even if low tension times, it would have been shot down).
How did this happen? Iran had poor procedures in place to identify a fucking passenger plane leaving their fucking capital airport. High tensions do not matter (they even state it was shot down due to its altitude and trajectory towards a sensitive military installation so even if low tension times, it would have been shot down).

 

[Shopolic]

Can't imagine the feeling of families and friends of those people... :(
Just think about it, those people wanted to leave Iran for a better place to live and work and then they died like this... It's impossible to think about the last seconds of their lives in that airplane. :(

 

[Ortix]

This has happened many times before.

The US (to an Iranian plane.)
The Russians illegally in Ukraine shot MH17 thinking it was Ukraining Military Transport ( and tried to cover it up)
The British (Shot down andAerlingus plane in the 70s off the west of Ireland) (and never admitted it.)
And other incidents.

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MH17 was shot down by pro-Russia rebels, not Russia itself.
The crash of the Aer Lingus plane is nowadays not thought to be due to any missile, so that does not belong on this list.

 

[Decado]

The level of rope people are willing to give the government of Iran is astonishing.

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Or some people realize there is more than one party at fault...

 

[Unknown Unknown]

Good for them to admit swiftly without needing to dragged through every step of denial to the truth.
Iran's foreign minister makes it sound promising that the remains of foreign citizens could be quickly repatriated.

 

[Monster Zero]

Again, none of those flights were shot down moments after taking off from the same nation's airport.

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There is no way to sidestep this fact. It makes Iran look like fools.

 

[thefit]

They admitted it I hope they also do something about it. All avoidable.

 

[Deleted member 43]

Or some people realize there is more than one party at fault...

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In terms of this plane getting shot down? Not really, no.

 

[cameron]

The President of Iran:

Spoiler: twitter text

Hassan Rouhani @HassanRouhani

Armed Forces' internal investigation has concluded that regrettably missiles fired due to human error caused the horrific crash of the Ukrainian plane & death of 176 innocent people.
Investigations continue to identify & prosecute this great tragedy & unforgivable mistake. #PS752

11:40 PM - Jan 10, 2020

​

Hassan Rouhani @HassanRouhani

The Islamic Republic of Iran deeply regrets this disastrous mistake.

My thoughts and prayers go to all the mourning families. I offer my sincerest condolences. https://twitter.com/HassanRouhani/status/1215856039997984768 …​

11:43 PM - Jan 10, 2020

 

[smileyforall220]

The level of rope people are willing to give the government of Iran is astonishing.

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People's justified hatred of Trump has blinded them to the culpability of any other parties. For Christ's sake, Iran can handle the consequences of its actions. Trump's actions had consequences that will be seen for quite a while on the global stage, but Iran is culpable for its own mistakes. No one forced Iran to pull the trigger on that plane, they did.

 

[Huncho_Houdini]

Terrible incompetence on Iran's part. Part of the blame goes toward the unnecessary military escalation caused by the USA.

 

[subpar spatula]

Or some people realize there is more than one party at fault...

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Who then is rightfully at fault? What % to we pass to individuals, corporations, religions, governments that have had their hand in the cookie jar of that region for decades? Iran shot the plane down. End of story. It doesn't matter the chain of events for the longest time that led to this circumstance in which they are in. They shot it down out of sheer inexcusable incompetence.

 

[CrankyJay]

Good for them to admit swiftly without needing to dragged through every step of denial to the truth.
Iran's foreign minister makes it sound promising that the remains of foreign citizens could be quickly repatriated.

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They denied it initially until they realized there was no way they could cover it up.

 

[Serpens007]

The level of rope people are willing to give the government of Iran is astonishing.

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Or maybe people are tired of the US escalating tensions and interventions too. It's not one OR the other. It's both. The world is seeing both being belligerent assholes

 

[low-G]

The analogy you're looking for is that an arsonist sets a night club on fire. As people attempt to flee the burning club, the staff block a fire exit and get a bunch of people killed.

Do you absolve the arsonist of all wrongdoing in that case? Of course not, but you obviously don't ignore that people in charge of things are supposed to be trained to not make stupid decisions under panic.

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It's more like a security guard, he's been on edge recently. Someone in the club shouts fire and a bunch of people run from the club. The security guard shoots them all dead.

 

[Deleted member 43]

Or maybe people are tired of the US escalating tensions and interventions too. It's not one OR the other. It's both. The world is seeing both being belligerent assholes

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This plane was shot down because of a monumental and unprecedented failure of Iran's government and military. No one else picked the time of their military action, the method, ran their air control system, fired this missile, etc.

This is on them.

 

[RedMercury]

People's justified hatred of Trump has blinded them to the culpability of any other parties. For Christ's sake, Iran can handle the consequences of its actions. Trump's actions had consequences that will be seen for quite a while on the global stage, but Iran is culpable for its own mistakes. No one forced Iran to pull the trigger on that plane, they did.

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Remember though that just because someone mentions Trump, it does not necessarily mean they are taking away culpability from Iran. These are simultaneous, non-contradictory thoughts people can have. I feel like, and I could be wrong, that maybe some people see Trump mentioned and make the assumption that is all someone cares about, when that may not be the case.

 

[Surfinn]

Do you not think they shot it down? It's been confirmed by multiple countries.

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Pretty sure they're being sarcastic

 

[Dice]

💔

 

[Betty]

Could we maybe use this event to have less tension and violence and escalation, please? That would be great.

 

[Alucrid]

why are we patting iran on the back for their "quick" response when they previously categorically denied any involvement in the crash and said they would withhold the black boxes?

 

[RedMercury]

Pretty sure they're being sarcastic

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My apologies, I did not pick up on that!

 

[CrankyJay]

Remember though that just because someone mentions Trump, it does not necessarily mean they are taking away culpability from Iran. These are simultaneous, non-contradictory thoughts people can have. I feel like, and I could be wrong, that maybe some people see Trump mentioned and make the assumption that is all someone cares about, when that may not be the case.

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It's hard not to see it come off that way given his history with this website. Most threads that have nothing to do with the man, you'll see people find a way to bring him up.

 

[FriskyCanuck]

The President of Iran:

Spoiler: twitter text

Hassan Rouhani @HassanRouhani

Armed Forces' internal investigation has concluded that regrettably missiles fired due to human error caused the horrific crash of the Ukrainian plane & death of 176 innocent people.
Investigations continue to identify & prosecute this great tragedy & unforgivable mistake. #PS752

11:40 PM - Jan 10, 2020




Hassan Rouhani @HassanRouhani

The Islamic Republic of Iran deeply regrets this disastrous mistake.

My thoughts and prayers go to all the mourning families. I offer my sincerest condolences. https://twitter.com/HassanRouhani/status/1215856039997984768 …

11:43 PM - Jan 10, 2020

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Added to OP.

 

[Alucrid]

The President of Iran:

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wow we're more alike than i thought. perhaps there is a hope for peace

 

[Sunster]

my man put an emoji in the tweet about how his team killed 200 innocent people

 

[Nintenleo]

Holy shit. This is one of the biggest fuckups in modern military. Like, how the fuck do you bomb a vehicle that's standing so close to an airport. How would you not know that it's a fucking commercial plane? Fuck.

This is disgusting. And yes, I hate Trump so much, but even in the fog of war you don't fucking take down a Boeing 737. There's blood even in his tiny hands, but...how is it possible? Honest question, I'd like to hear someone that maybe knows a bit about this sort of things.

US and Iran are both led by terrible people.
I'm sorry so many families are suffering right now.
Rip.

 

[RedMercury]

It's hard not to see it come off that way given his history with this website. Most threads that have nothing to do with the man, you'll see people find a way to bring him up.

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Well sure, but that's because he's a reviled figure who has done immeasurable harm to the country and him and his followers have negatively effected people's lives, likely for generations to come, especially minorities of which there is more advocacy here for than a lot of similar forums.

 

[blakeseven]

If you want to go down that road of ifs and whens, blame it on the American people for electing the fuckwit in first place. Nah, it's Iran's fault, period, and surprisingly enough they're now admitting guilt.

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The slippery slope bullshit is not one I'm interested in. To deny the current United States administrations culpability in this escalation is naive as fuck.

 

[dkeane]

why are we patting iran on the back for their "quick" response when they previously categorically denied any involvement in the crash and said they would withhold the black boxes?

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I think as Americans it's shocking to hear a government not lie.

 

[CrankyJay]

Holy shit. This is one of the biggest fuckups in modern military. Like, how the fuck do you bomb a vehicle that's standing so close to an airport. How would you not know that it's a fucking commercial plane? Fuck.

This is disgusting. And yes, I hate Trump so much, but even in the fog of war you don't fucking take down a Boeing 737. There's blood even in his tiny hands, but...how is it possible? Honest question, I'd like to hear someone that maybe knows a bit about this sort of things.

US and Iran are both led by terrible people.
I'm sorry so many families are suffering right now.
Rip.

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I think it goes to show that under sustained pressure the Iranian military isn't the well-oiled machine they would like to appear to be. They really did themselves no favors here on multiple fronts.