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Tyche-42

Member
Sep 29, 2021
1,807
Does anyone know if you have an option to play third person or not?
BGS games are always 1st/3rd person, and I think its been confirmed officially. Also a lot of the leaked screens are 3rd person.

That said due to the design of games being fundementally different between 1st and 3rd person, I think it will be an after thought to 1st person as thats what they usually make their games for.
 

Aaron D.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,332
Yep, specifically it was the radiant AI IIRC. They made a big deal of their work on this radiant AI system that was supposed to be like procedural AI behaviour and routines but they couldnt get it working and had to cut it.

It was actually a funny story they told about it. Essentially it wasnt that they didnt get it working but that it was incredibly chaotic and unpredictable. The example they gave was a shopkeeper who among other stuff was scheduled to sweep his shop every morning before opening, and to do this he needed a broom. Only he did not have one, so the radiant AI system told him he needed to go find one. Pretty innocent enough until he went next door and bludgeoned his neighbour to death in order to obtain their broom, before going back to sweep. Apparantly this was a huge problem that lead to a cascade of NPC on NPC murder that would leave your game world empty, so it had to be cut.

You could actually see this kind of situation happen in skyrim (which actually had some of this radiant AI system) with the dawnguard expansion, where there was a random event in which a mysterious stranger (read: vampire) would spawn randomly upon travelling to a town. The behaviour of this stranger was to walk around the town looking ominous and every night it would sneak into a random house and kill an npc to feed on them. Sounds fun right? Well no, because if you choose to ignore this NPC or didnt even notice them they would still go ahead and kill an NPC every night even when you were not there due to the background simulation. This lead to people playing dozens of hours blisfully unaware that entire towns were having their population fed upon before the player would discover that a bunch of the settlements were completely empty, much too late to revert to an older save.

Ive never really blamed the devs for cutting back on this as the consequences are far reaching and the complexity is pretty huge. But even the complexity they have makes these games truly something, and its part of the reason i love them so much. Where in other games NPCs and towns are merely an empty facade only meant to revolve around giving the player quests, BGS games are much more alive.

To hear theyre going even further with the background simulation in this makes me extremely excited about this game.


These two Radiant AI stories are incredible.
 

Retromess

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Nov 9, 2017
2,039
Yep, specifically it was the radiant AI IIRC. They made a big deal of their work on this radiant AI system that was supposed to be like procedural AI behaviour and routines but they couldnt get it working and had to cut it.

It was actually a funny story they told about it. Essentially it wasnt that they didnt get it working but that it was incredibly chaotic and unpredictable. The example they gave was a shopkeeper who among other stuff was scheduled to sweep his shop every morning before opening, and to do this he needed a broom. Only he did not have one, so the radiant AI system told him he needed to go find one. Pretty innocent enough until he went next door and bludgeoned his neighbour to death in order to obtain their broom, before going back to sweep. Apparantly this was a huge problem that lead to a cascade of NPC on NPC murder that would leave your game world empty, so it had to be cut.

You could actually see this kind of situation happen in skyrim (which actually had some of this radiant AI system) with the dawnguard expansion, where there was a random event in which a mysterious stranger (read: vampire) would spawn randomly upon travelling to a town. The behaviour of this stranger was to walk around the town looking ominous and every night it would sneak into a random house and kill an npc to feed on them. Sounds fun right? Well no, because if you choose to ignore this NPC or didnt even notice them they would still go ahead and kill an NPC every night even when you were not there due to the background simulation. This lead to people playing dozens of hours blisfully unaware that entire towns were having their population fed upon before the player would discover that a bunch of the settlements were completely empty, much too late to revert to an older save.

Ive never really blamed the devs for cutting back on this as the consequences are far reaching and the complexity is pretty huge. But even the complexity they have makes these games truly something, and its part of the reason i love them so much. Where in other games NPCs and towns are merely an empty facade only meant to revolve around giving the player quests, BGS games are much more alive.

To hear theyre going even further with the background simulation in this makes me extremely excited about this game.
Hah! That vampire thing sounds like an AWESOME concept for a story, but yeah, the moment you introduce player freedom to things it falls apart.

That would totally happen to me cause I tend to ignore a lot of quests in favor of exploring and looting so I'd happen upon a town to find everyone dead, figure my game was broken, and that was that. But I really hope they can implement some type of this behavior and simulation because it has great worldbuilding implications.

I'll always remember the first time I "accidentally" killed a townsperson in Fallout 4 and found they were a synth when I looted them. Just happened throughout the course of my play time but it was a great bit of story and worldbuilding that just happened diegetically in the game.
 

Pancracio17

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,797
Starfield, Elden Ring and BotW 2 will make this year the best year in open world history
 

Tyche-42

Member
Sep 29, 2021
1,807
These two Radiant AI stories are incredible.
People talk shit about these systems because "ew procedural generation" but honestly despite how mundane they can be a lot of the time they also lead to some truly one of a kind experiences that feel special because they arent scripted or supposed to happen. Its this kind of chaos that makes the NPCs feel somewhat alive. Hell even the fact that they actually sleep, work, eat with their families and randomely chat to strangers when youre not around gives them so much more depth than other games.

Ive often thought that BGS's games are in a way very similiar to the park from westworld (apparantly including the crazed murdering), but like a primitive version of it. What with the NPCs sticking to their routines even when the player isnt around, and having improvise due to external (the player) interference. The background simulation in their games just seems to act sort of like the hosts in the park do.

The advancement of AI complexity truly is the next revolutionary step for games. It actually makes me glad MS bought them, because before they seemed to be getting pushed toward simplification and cutting stuff like this to make the games easier to make and appeal more to a mass market to maximise profits for Zenimax, who were even pushing towards MTXs and MP. But now they have the funding and creative freedom to really go crazy with this stuff.
 

Ales34

Member
Apr 15, 2018
6,455
This sounds incredible. I'm so happy they're stressing that their games are simulations as well as RPG. I love "making your own story"--that's my favorite part of Bethesda's games, or any games. Looking forward to joining the pirates of the Crimson Fleet! I'm glad it's confirmed that you can join them. With the amount of spaceships in these videos and concept art, hopefully pilotable spaceships are in the game and I can be a space pirate!
Really looking forward to it, slightly dreading the disgusting amount of time I will likely put into it.

Anyone else get that?
Lol, same here.
 

The Gold Hawk

Member
Jan 30, 2019
4,533
Yorkshire
cmYeNcZ.jpg


Nope. :p
Oh wow. If it's anything like my playstyle, I have to believe that half of that is pedantic tweaking of settlements haha

My 360 Oblivion save, which was sadly lost, had a time played that was comical. When I noticed years after playing, I assumed it was a glitch. It was not :(
 

Izanagi89

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,609
People said this EXACT same thing for Elden Ring and it was rightfully hyped, look how big that launch was.

I mean sure, the game succeeded but had it not the failure would've been harsher given the immense hype. I don't think there's anything wrong with being hype but gamer expectations can become extremely disproportionate.

I'll quote this reply in November 😌

And I'll be super happy when/if you do because I know I'll be playing a great game.
 

Zachary_Games

Member
Jul 31, 2020
2,972
They've already said that gameplay will be summer. Not sure why people keep repeating this on every Starfield thread. It's how every Bethesda game has been marketed.

I wasn't aware of that. Hopefully by summer, they means early summer, not the last day of August.

Personally, I am not interested in the Todd Howard hype machine for BGS anymore. Show us the goods.
 

canderous

Prophet of Truth
Member
Jun 12, 2020
8,701
Todd, stop doing this to me. Making the wait so much harder. Going back to some of their older RPG mechanics, innovating in the dialogue system, focus on simulation in the world, freedom to join or be against all these different factions, companions that react to the environment…

The in-game robot companion looks good., very nice lighting in the environment too. And that new concept art all seems to highlight exploration…. Goddamn.

Only about 3 more months to finally see this in action.


Probably not public knowledge, but was Shen promoted to lead designer on Starfield because of how well Far Harbour was received, or have they had the lead role before?
First lead role on a new game
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 93062

Account closed at user request
Banned
Mar 4, 2021
24,767
I wasn't aware of that. Hopefully by summer, they means early summer, not the last day of August.

Personally, I am not interested in the Todd Howard hype machine for BGS anymore. Show us the goods.
Todd Howard would prefer to not show any gameplay or talk about a game until the day it launches. These videos are all put on by the marketing team.
 

TheRed

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,658
This game sounds so good and all of the art has blown me away.
My most anticipated AAA game and I feel weird that I don't even have to buy it but can just play through my game pass.
 

Aaron D.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,332
Oh wow. If it's anything like my playstyle, I have to believe that half of that is pedantic tweaking of settlements haha

My 360 Oblivion save, which was sadly lost, had a time played that was comical. When I noticed years after playing, I assumed it was a glitch. It was not :(

Ironically, I didn't spend too much time with settlements in Fallout 4.

I'm a wanderer / scavenger with these things. Absolutely adore roaming the landscape just to see what I randomly come across. An no one...I mean No One does open-world discovery like BGS.

I do get to the Main Quest...eventually. But that's typically the last thing I think about during the opening (dozens of) hours.

That's the beauty of open-world BGS titles. They fit all shapes, sizes and gameplay moods.
 

Tigress

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,155
Washington
Just everything they talk about this game sounds absolutely perfect to me.

LOVE the focus on companions, dialogue, and choices in this video - one of things I want more fleshed out in a Bethesda open world adventure

My worry is when he says that they want it so there is no right answer, does that mean we get yes yes yes maybe again? (basically that could be framed as you won't get locked out of doing stuff). I hope there are wrong answers basically.

Anyways, it's a Bethesda game, I'm sure I'll love it even if I have complaints.
 

Kschreck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,076
Pennsylvania
This sounds like the best game ever. Really hope they can deliver with this one. Basically sounds like a next gen Mass Effect style experience. I'm intrigued. Hope we see it this summer.
 

Loanshark

Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,637
Lets hope the writing has improved, because it was the worst aspect of Fallout 4 by far. Worldbuilding was sloppy as hell, story was poorly thought out, dialogue & choices were extremely underwhelming, etc. Other than that, I am fairly hopeful. Would love to see the resource/scrapping system return in some form. Loved how every item found in Fallout 4 had some kind of use through the crafting and base building mechanic.
 

Tyche-42

Member
Sep 29, 2021
1,807
Hah! That vampire thing sounds like an AWESOME concept for a story, but yeah, the moment you introduce player freedom to things it falls apart.

That would totally happen to me cause I tend to ignore a lot of quests in favor of exploring and looting so I'd happen upon a town to find everyone dead, figure my game was broken, and that was that. But I really hope they can implement some type of this behavior and simulation because it has great worldbuilding implications.

I'll always remember the first time I "accidentally" killed a townsperson in Fallout 4 and found they were a synth when I looted them. Just happened throughout the course of my play time but it was a great bit of story and worldbuilding that just happened diegetically in the game.
Aye problem is it would completely fuck your save since youd be left with the choice to keep playing in a world with empty towns or go back to an earlier save and losing possibly dozens of hours of progress, so they patched it so that couldnt happen anymore.

Its tricky trying to find a balance between AI that can improvise and behave procedurally, and making sure nothing happens that will ruin a players experience.

Thats the amazing thing with these games, everyone has different experiences and stories, and its what makes each playthrough different. I remember in skyrim there is a guy that murders some townswoman when you first go into markarth, only I killed him first. Most game developers wouldnt allow you to stop this from happening but not bethesda. Hell theres even unique dialogue for that character if you save them.
 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,312
I said it when Microsoft announced the acquisition of Bethesda, but I'd bet all of my achievements that Starfield was the game that made Microsoft decide to open up its wallet. It's the culmination of something that they've wanted to work on for years and I'm certain it will be mindblowing.
 

Scrobbles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,198
Lets hope the writing has improved, because it was the worst aspect of Fallout 4 by far. Worldbuilding was sloppy as hell, story was poorly thought out, dialogue & choices were extremely underwhelming, etc. Other than that, I am fairly hopeful. Would love to see the resource/scrapping system return in some form. Loved how every item found in Fallout 4 had some kind of use through the crafting and base building mechanic.
The lead designer for the Far Harbor expansion is the lead quest designer for this game, so I'd be surprised if the quests and writing here weren't better than base FO4.
 

Owlet

Owl Enthusiast
Verified
May 30, 2018
1,931
London, UK
I said it when Microsoft announced the acquisition of Bethesda, but I'd bet all of my achievements that Starfield was the game that made Microsoft decide to open up its wallet. It's the culmination of something that they've wanted to work on for years and I'm certain it will be mindblowing.
I've really been getting the vibe that its a game they're passionate about making which has me excited.
 

Nax

Hero of Bowerstone
Member
Oct 10, 2018
6,675
Been really interested in space since the civilian mission last year + the launch of the JWST. So this is coming at the perfect time.
 

RR30

Member
Oct 22, 2018
2,268
I said it when Microsoft announced the acquisition of Bethesda, but I'd bet all of my achievements that Starfield was the game that made Microsoft decide to open up its wallet. It's the culmination of something that they've wanted to work on for years and I'm certain it will be mindblowing.

Fallout 76 aside, they've done nothing but bangers for 2 decades. I'm expecting Skyrim in space which will be a GOAT caliber game. Are my expectations too high? Yeah but BGS normally deliver.
 

Loanshark

Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,637
I'm massively hyped for this game for a few reasons:

1. Bethesda seems to be going back to its hardcore RPG roots, and has built up this game as their next big IP.
2. It's Xbox Series X|S and PC only. No Xbox One. The game has been built from the ground up around the NVME SSDs, Zen 2 CPU cores, etc.
Is no cross-gen confirmed?
 

Loanshark

Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,637
The lead designer for the Far Harbor expansion is the lead quest designer for this game, so I'd be surprised if the quests and writing here weren't better than base FO4.
Yeah, saw that. I suppose that's something. However the lead writer on Fallout 4 is now "design director", both of them are in the video. Not sure about the dynamics of those respective roles.
 
Last edited:
Jan 4, 2018
8,650
EVERY STARFIELD CONCEPT ART TO DATE (I think). Credits: Bethesda Game Studios and their artists

I feel that The Art of Starfield is going to be as massive and mindblowing as The Art of Fallout 4. Can't wait to have it.

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Buckle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
41,131
Todd is saying all the right things about character building and RPG mechanics. Really hoping this game lives up to the hype. It's sounding really good.
Heres hoping its not as dumbed down as Fallout 4.

I really miss all the fun dialog choices and character building/role playing from stuff like Skyrim and Fallout 3.
 

Izanagi89

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,609
Heres hoping its not as dumbed down as Fallout 4.

I really miss all the fun dialog choices and character building/role playing from stuff like Skyrim and Fallout 3.

That's my biggest worry. The watered down dialogue options in FO4 compared to 3 was staggering to say the least. I enjoyed FO4 but it's probably my least fav RPG from Bethesda.
 

Ales34

Member
Apr 15, 2018
6,455
Yeah, well, jokes aside I'm talking more about the minute details... Like: are you supposed to visit multiple planets? Are you doing combat in space? Is moving between planets a loading screen or are we getting seamless transition?
That kind of shit.
Visit multiple planets: yes. We don't know about combat in space yet. There are space pirates that you can join, but whether you'll get to be an actual space pirate (as in space combat) is still unknown.
 

CosmicGP

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,889
Hope this goes well, I'd like to see something fresh and groundbreaking.

Also, on an unimportant note, I thought this video was an interview at first but turns out it's all people on the dev team chatting with each other about "how good is this game? So good"
😅
 

Vex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,213
Seems your character will start different based off of which faction you select for your starter?

I also like the sound of pretending to be a pirate and reporting back. Basically being a snitch. I'm really good at snitching IRL so I'll be able to judge that mission structure really well.
 

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
54,597
Seems your character will start different based off of which faction you select for your starter?

I also like the sound of pretending to be a pirate and reporting back. Basically being a snitch. I'm really good at snitching IRL so I'll be able to judge that mission structure really well.
could be really interesting with the newer dialogue mechanics for influencing people. Having to defend yourself or really carefully select options to not blow your cover
 

canderous

Prophet of Truth
Member
Jun 12, 2020
8,701
Like every Bethesda game since Oblivion, we're gonna see gameplay about 5 months before launch. This isn't anything new folks.
 

Ra

Rap Genius
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
12,212
Dark Space
Bethesda is great at talking their shit over dramatic music, whether on stage or in these orchestrated developer videos. The game itself is going to have to prove it all to me this time.
 

SpottieO

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,618
Seems your character will start different based off of which faction you select for your starter?

I also like the sound of pretending to be a pirate and reporting back. Basically being a snitch. I'm really good at snitching IRL so I'll be able to judge that mission structure really well.
I think that's maybe a misinterpretation about starting? I would be shocked if there were different starting points.