Insomniacs "Spider-Man" representation of prisoners is extremely outdated.

[Ghost of Jhoto]

Insomniacs "Spider-Man" representation of prisoners is extremely irking to me. When playing Miles Morales the other day I realized that almost anyone in an orange jumpsuit is hype aggressive and ready to fight Spiderman on a whim. This pushes the stereotype that all felons are dangerous monsters who are too dangerous to ever be on the streets. Similar issues exist in the Arkham games but it continues to irk me to see every criminal represented as an overly violent killer. This irresponsible representation existed in the original Spiderman too where, even worse, a real world location "Rykers Island" served as a level where every criminal was attempting to break free and kill you and cops. As a life long New Yorker who knows people who have been to Rykers for low level drug crimes, people who wouldn't harm a fly it's weird how insomniac essentially pushes these very outdated views of prisoners in their game.

 

[ASleepingMonkey]

The Raft is a notable super prison, essentially. It's where the worst of the worst go, not just to Ryker's Island.

Raft

186 appearance(s) of Raft 5 appearance(s) in handbook(s) of Raft 7 minor appearance(s) of Raft 103 mention(s) of Raft 12 mention(s) in handbook(s) of Raft 18 image(s) of Raft Raft at Marvel.com Raft at Wikipedia

marvel.fandom.com

 

[cmChimera]

I remember this being controversial shortly after the game's release and I agree wholeheartedly. It's bad, and I'm pretty disappointed that Miles Morales kept it up, just changed the prison to a fictional one.

Morales did seem to switch drug deals to weapon deals though, and police are much more unfriendly, so I guess some progress has been made.

 

[Mecha]

Isn't this prison filled with "criminal" that may have been captured by Spidey in the past? Also it was in the midst of a planned escape.

 

[Deleted member 17092]

Yeah I agree it's pretty cringe. Like the whole opening sequence of oh no we gotta stop these dangerous felons I'm like meh why.

Sure rhino we gotta stop but all the other dudes no need for them to get beaten up/killed by miles/peter.

 

[IamPeacock]

Because in those universes, prisoners are dangerous thugs.
Always been that way in the comics and animated series.

 

[dstarMDA]

Very good point - I agree, and it makes think about the contextualization of Arkham (which was a bit better, but with very damaging implications about mental health too). We need to do better.

 

[Lant_War]

This pushes the stereotype that all felons are dangerous monsters who are too dangerous to ever be on the streets

Click to shrink...

If you're in the Raft, this is precisely why. They're not normal criminals.

 

[mikhailguy]

excellent point

 

[Transistor]

The Raft is a notable super prison, essentially. It's where the worst of the worst go, not just to Rikers Island.

Raft

186 appearance(s) of Raft 5 appearance(s) in handbook(s) of Raft 7 minor appearance(s) of Raft 103 mention(s) of Raft 12 mention(s) in handbook(s) of Raft 18 image(s) of Raft Raft at Marvel.com Raft at Wikipedia

marvel.fandom.com

Click to shrink...

This right here. These aren't common prisoners from the local state prison. these are meant to be the most violent criminals.

 

[--R]

But not every criminal is portrayed as such. These are RAFT prisoners, maximum security (in a superhero world) criminals. These ARE dangerous, way more than other criminals in-game like the drug dealers.

 

[Expy]

The Raft is a super prison for literal thugs and dangerous felons.

 

[Solid SOAP]

I was watching my buddy play the other day and thought it was humorous that immediately after a caravan of prisoners escaped, their immediate decision was for all of them to start fighting Spiderman?

Like what? Lol.

 

[Dphex]

Because in those universes, prisoners are dangerous thugs.
Always been that way in the comics and animated series.

Click to shrink...

.

 

[Mandos]

If you're in the Raft, this is precisely why. They're not normal criminals.

Click to shrink...

Yeah basic requirements is the ability to destroy a city block or killing a huge amount of people

 

[2Blackcats]

Agreed but at the same time it's comic book prisoners. It's a dumb trope but I understand why you need multiple enemies of similar types in games

 

[Bear]

Isn't this a max security prison? Also I'm not sure why depictions of prisoners in a video game have to mirror reality precisely. It's a video game about a comic book superhero.

 

[Violater]

I just find it jarring that these guys are running around as a group the whole time in an orange jump suits.
"Yup I think those are the escaped prisoners, but I am not sure"

 

[Miya Moto]

It's a game - don't see the problem with it. I don't expect the developers to dev prisoners with different behavioral elements and i'm fine with that.

 

[DontHateTheBacon]

It's a comic book game. Lol.

 

[andymcc]

does miles get to use his super-strength to permanently immobilize someone buying an eighth?

 

[SapientWolf]

Some of those prisoners have blue and red skin so I'm thinking it's not your typical penitentiary. And mohawk guy clearly means business. When was the last time you've seen someone rocking a mohawk in a video game who was not there to fuck shit up?

 

[Lord Fanny]

Pretty much everything in the Spider-Man games regarding law enforcement is 'outdated,' to put it nicely. In this case, it's obviously just a way to make trash mob enemies easier to explain in universe, but like a lot of superhero stuff, there's a lot of fascist undertone to everything you just kind of have to accept to some degree.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

If you're in the Raft, this is precisely why. They're not normal criminals.

Click to shrink...

Yep if your on the raft you are the worst of the worst in some way or the other .
Also high likely that spidey put you there also .

 

[L Thammy]

The Raft is a notable super prison, essentially. It's where the worst of the worst go, not just to Ryker's Island.

Raft

186 appearance(s) of Raft 5 appearance(s) in handbook(s) of Raft 7 minor appearance(s) of Raft 103 mention(s) of Raft 12 mention(s) in handbook(s) of Raft 18 image(s) of Raft Raft at Marvel.com Raft at Wikipedia

marvel.fandom.com

Click to shrink...

The Marvel universe might have an explanation of why this is true within the universe, but then it still falls into the old Batman problem where even if the villains are all dangerously insane, the entire series end up being about dangerous mentally ill people who need to be locked up.

 

[TheGhost]

As a life long New Yorker it's Rikers Island.

but yeah the raft is where the baddest of the bad go. It's not like they put people who didn't pay their taxes or low level drug offenders in there.

 

[DvdGzz]

It's a comic book game and they needed more enemy types.

 

[MrCarter]

Because in those universes, prisoners are dangerous thugs.
Always been that way in the comics and animated series.

Click to shrink...

Basically this. It's fiction and not meant to portray the real world.

 

[Deleted member 60582]

Because in those universes, prisoners are dangerous thugs.
Always been that way in the comics and animated series.

Click to shrink...

^

In literally every piece of comic-related media, the second a superhero or whatever is stuck in a prison it's on. Especially a place like The Raft. This is comics 101.

 

[Aerial51]

I love how people try to justify this with Lore reasons. Therefore Quiet being almost naked is also not bad because Kojima made us regret our words and deeds.

 

[Stalker]

1. It's not real and it's not portrayed as real or even attemping it.
2. The raft is a super prison for the worst of humanity in the Marvel universe

 

[Thera]

I thought it was more a comics view. At least, this is how I see it and neither Arkham or SM New York are real life to me.
Not arguing about the fact this is outdated.
The friendly cop Neighborhood Spider-Man was more problematic (but in the same vein).

 

[Deleted member 1003]

It's the RAFT! Which historically is filled with the absolute worst humans on the planet.

 

[hey it's that dog]

I just played this part last night and I definitely saw it through a different lens than the first time I played it.

However, you don't have to interpret it as the game saying "all prisoners are violent killers" because 1) these are prisoners from the most serious prison, specifically for the most serious criminals, and 2) you can just imagine that the prisoners attacking Spiderman are the worst of the worst and the ones who aren't decided to go do something else and you never encounter them in the game.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Don't you people get tired of over-analyzing every single thing in videogames?

 

[--R]

I love how people try to justify this with Lore reasons. Therefore Quiet being almost naked is also not bad because Kojima made us regret our words and deeds.

Click to shrink...

Did you make that strawman yourself?

 

[PaperSparrow]

Saying "it's the Raft" is a bit of a cop out for discussion. To have a place with so many highly dangerous people in the first place still says something.

I think street level super hero games have a unique hurdle when it comes to "generic enemies". You either have to have criminals roaming the streets or bland non-humans like robots. Speaks to an issue with video games in how you need so many enemies for gameplay and comic books that often have a hard time reconciling with views of criminals and justice.

 

[Kain]

I think those are dangerous prisoners from a maximum security facility. Not everything has to relate to real life, specially in a game with a spider dude.

There are games where prisoners are nice normal people, for example Yakuza 4 does a good job with this.

 

[Sephzilla]

All of the escaped prisoners in Miles Morales are people likely serving life sentences for unforgiveable crimes, and like 95% of them were probably locked up by Spidey himself so there's probably a grudge. These people were so dangerous they were being transported along with fucking Rhino. People busted for stealing a car or selling drugs aren't going to The Raft.

This is one of those instances were you're ignoring what the game is telling you in order to mold it to your own narrative.

 

[Lord Fanny]

Yeah basic requirements is the ability to destroy a city block or killing a huge amount of people

Click to shrink...

Yeah, none of the prisoners the OP is talking about does that lol. They are just relatively normal people who display no superhuman abilities. I'm not entirely sure these people are all even going to the Raft. They are part of convoy transporting Rhino to the Raft, but it's never made explicitly clear everyone is going to the same destination since they are in trucks and Rhino is being flown in.

Doesn't really matter anyway to what OP is really talking about. You can make justifications like this 'in-universe' for anything. You can try and say NYPD is nice, good old folks in universe so the 2018 is okay for furiously sucking cop dick. Not really sure that matters to the argument.

 

[Deleted member 16876]

I love how people try to justify this with Lore reasons. Therefore Quiet being almost naked is also not bad because Kojima made us regret our words and deeds.

Click to shrink...

It is not even the same thing.

What are you on about?

 

[The Laughing Man]

I love how people try to justify this with Lore reasons. Therefore Quiet being almost naked is also not bad because Kojima made us regret our words and deeds.

Click to shrink...

What? Who is talking about Quiet?

 

[RestEerie]

Erm...the raft is supermax prison...

Unless some of u guys wanna argue that some of these supermax prisoners are prisoners of conscious and being framed by 'teh system', that I rest my case and you do you.


It's probably better to set these games outside the US or a fantasy settings so that 'overreading' is not a thing.

Who am I kidding....even ppl overreading children's books like LOTR into war & peace.

 

[Uzupedro]

I'm pretty sure that most criminals you found in the game are framed in a way that they are really bad people or something, at best you fight random drug dealers but they aren't portrayed in the same way as Raft prisoners or Fisk's ''employees''(unless I am misremembering).

The Spider-Cop shit is way worse IMO but I understand your point.

 

[Wabba]

Its a comic book game its not there to be representative of what a prison is and dont needs to be. I dont see the need to be offended by it.

 

[Aerial51]

Did you make that strawman yourself?

Click to shrink...

Tell me why it's a strawman then. If you honestly think the added Context of the raft being a super prison that only keeps the worst of the worst is a good justification for portraying criminals the way they are then ok, but i don't.
The Arkham Games also always have some nicer prisoners here and there, especially in City, but that doesn't change the fact that the general implication of those games is that Prisoners are always cartoonishly evil.

 

[Edge]

This right here. These aren't common prisoners from the local state prison. these are meant to be the most violent criminals.

Click to shrink...

Exactly, and we're done here.
Don't see the problem.

 

[daybreak]

This is just as valid criticism as the game's positive portrayal of the police, so I'm not sure why it should be hand-waved with "it's just fiction."

How things are represented in fictional media matters.

 

[Jeffram]

Isn't the redemption arc of a past criminal a core pilar of the the story?

 

[sonicmj1]

If you're in the Raft, this is precisely why. They're not normal criminals.

Click to shrink...

At least in the first Spider-Man, the prison break starts on Rikers itself with people there blowing up everything in sight, and the people who are manning prisoner camps in the aftermath are from Rikers, not superpowered Raft prisoners.

It's an assumption built in to the world of Spider-Man that there's a fairly large population of people that are just violent criminals that want to do harm to the public at the first opportunity and can only be stopped with force.