Inside Xbox Series X Optimized: Dirt 5 - Devs talk SSD & ease of development on XSX

arsene_P5 · Jun 11, 2020

McFly said:
Fascinating to see that out of the game a developer is going for 16 thread SMT and not using the higher clocked 8 core non SMT mode.

Indeed. Should be great.

Birbos said:
Isn't Microsoft working to bring the SSD utilization technology they're using for Xbox to Windows at some point?

Some of the software will carry over, but there is more to the Velocity architecture and the SSD itself. You see SSD on PC slow down due to heat and therefore don't sustain their theoretical number. This is not the case for PS5 and Xbox Series X, because both made sure to use customized hardware to tackle the heat and other issues.

In other words. A 2,4GB/s SSD on PC will be considerable slower than the SSD in the Xbox Series X.

Birbos said:
Yeah so the ssd tech will be coming to PC:

The backbone of the Xbox Series X’s ultra-fast storage technology is coming to Windows

Microsoft confirms that DirectStorage, part of the Xbox Series X Velocity Architecture, will arrive on Windows 10 gaming PCs in the future.

www.pcworld.com

Not entirely. One of the advantages that gets underestimated all the time is the fact that Sony and Microsoft show the substained speed in their spec sheet. PC SSD slow down a lot due to heat and console don't. Then there is a lot of custom hardware and I don't think all software features on Xbox will find their way to pc.

TechBoss said:
Hi guys, it's me :)
If you want more information, check out the interview I did with Major Nelson over here on Youtube:

Interview: David Springate, Technical Director for Dirt 5

Larry Hryb, Xbox's Major Nelson talks to David Springate, Technical Director for Dirt 5. Learn more about how Dirt 5 will use the power of Xbox Series X. htt...

www.youtube.com

Welcome and thanks for sharing the link. Was interesting to watch.

Ricky Ricardo said:
Finally, some discussion from a dev about the Series X's SSD.
Glad they're confirming it actually has one! /s

Haha, yeah.

Broken Hope said:
Nobodies ever said that the SX SSD is as slow as a hard drive, just plenty of people downplaying the PS5 SSD, the way most people talk Sony has spent a ton of money designing an IO system that is completely pointless and will show no advantage at all.

I think plenty of people downplayed both consoles and on the topic of Xbox Series X, since this is a Xbox thread, people constantly talked about brute force and so forth and how only the PS5 SSD will change level design using the jak example of cerny to proof a point.

And then we had people pushing the narrative that you can't possibly optimize for a slower SSD so you can do the same gameplay features like letting the character run at the same speed. Obviously you need to make sacrifices like lowering the asset quality and therefore the data needed to be pushed. But it should be possible. Some post were really hard to read.

GinoFelino said:
Pretty funny that Microsoft felt the need to put out a puff piece about

1) ease of development
2) SSD speed

Because developers have been openly talking about those characteristics re: PS5 lately.

For the record: I own an XB1X and PS4P and I think both (/all three?) nextgen consoles will be incredible. It's just a little obvious.

It's an interview and they do these from time to time. These interviews were done for Xbox One enhanced games, too. And as someone else said can you blame them, when a few people want to push the narrative new level design compared to current gen is only possible with PS5 SSD and Xbox bought their parts at best buy?

Dehnus · Jun 11, 2020

Betamaxbandit said:
You know what, I stand corrected....to a degree lol "Blast processing" didnt actually exist as it was never implemented in ANY shipped mega drive game. So in essence it was simply a marketing term as they applied it to Sonic to show how fast he moves across the screen when in actual fact it wasnt used.

Now, applying that line of thinking to velocity is plain wrong.

What I will agree on though is the naming of it and other features, not just this gen and next but across technology. But hey, our project names we use in work are equally cringe. We are currently recycling all star wars related names for some reason.

Actually, there are more interviews than just the one on euro gamer. It really was used, just not in the way Marty Franz found. Basically with a Megadrive you could update memory mid frame during scan line using DMA. While the bandwidth was lower than using the v and h blank parts you still could do some very interesting effects. I'll try to find some sources and dm them to you it is a very interesting subject if you are into engineering. The term itself ofcourse was marketing and it wasn't like velocity architecture, something that was intended from the very early design phase. But when I read that answer of the developer i was reminded of it.

I'm on mobile so it'll have to wait a bit. Mobile era is horrible on Firefox when editing.

GinoFelino · Jun 11, 2020

arsene_P5 said:
.
It's an interview and they do these from time to time. These interviews were done for Xbox One enhanced games, too. And as someone else said can you blame them, when a few people want to push the narrative new level design compared to current gen is only possible with PS5 SSD and Xbox bought their parts at best buy?

Pryme said:
Perhaps this wouldn't have been necessary if console warriors haven't been painting a false narrative about the XSX capabilities?

Sony did something in that vein some months back when the 'teraflop' narrative was gathering steam.

Raigor said:
Are you really blaming them when there are people thinking that Xbox Series X game will have "elevators" to hide loading screens?

Lot of stuff about blaming here. Just said it was a little obvious and funny. It's alright to not take everything about these consoles extremely seriously, right?

I hadn't heard about this narrative being pushed. Like all narratives being pushed by console warriors, you're better off ignoring them entirely. XSX will obviously have a kickass SSD, and like every console from the current generation onward, will be easy to develop for.

Let's find out what firstparty nextgen titles can look like tonight, and get excited :)

jroc74 · Jun 11, 2020

Matt said:
It's great. MS can honestly say "most powerful," Sony can honestly say "fastest," and the only people with a problem with either of those will be irrational "fans."

Thank you, as always.

domthybomb said:
Here's hoping more developers look into having a performance mode and resolution one.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

NinjaBoiX said:
These SSD's are going to be game changers, very exciting stuff!

Yup, that was always the overall point, message.

GinoFelino said:
Lot of stuff about blaming here. Just said it was a little obvious and funny. It's alright to not take everything about these consoles extremely seriously, right?

I hadn't heard about this narrative being pushed. Like all narratives being pushed by console warriors, you're better off ignoring them entirely. XSX will obviously have a kickass SSD, and like every console from the current generation onward, will be easy to develop for.

Let's find out what firstparty nextgen titles can look like tonight, and get excited :)

Thank you. if its really that bad, thats what the ignore button is for. Trust me, it works.

And its ok for each console to have a strength. Damn near every device since forever has cons in the pro vs con list.

christocolus · Jun 11, 2020

McFly said:
Fascinating to see that out of the game a developer is going for 16 thread SMT and not using the higher clocked 8 core non SMT mode.

I am not tech savy but I would like to know what this means and how it benefits the creation of amazing games. :)

jroc74 · Jun 11, 2020

McFly · Jun 11, 2020

christocolus said:
I am not tech savy but I would like to know what this means and how it benefits the creation of amazing games. :)

Means their engine is highly threaded and favors more cores/threads rather than fewer higher clocked cores. SMT allows independent threads of execution to better utilize the resources and improves the overall efficiency of CPUs . To me this benefits games on PC that has lots of cores and threads.

christocolus · Jun 11, 2020

McFly said:
Means their engine is highly threaded and favors more cores/threads rather than fewer higher clocked cores. SMT allows independent threads of execution to better utilize the resources and improves the overall efficiency of CPUs . To me this benefits games on PC that has lots of cores and threads.

I understand it just a bit better now. lol. Thanks.

Kiekura · Jun 11, 2020

Transistor said:
SSDs are gonna make next gen so damn good

God dam right.gif

Deleted member 50658 · Jun 11, 2020

christocolus said:
I am not tech savy but I would like to know what this means and how it benefits the creation of amazing games. :)

Basically every AAA developer will chose to use the "slower" 16 threads since that is by far the better option enabling them to get much more out of the CPU and this will especially be the case when building a new game on next gen consoles while the other mode will probably only be used by Xbox BC (last gen consoles had 8 cores and no hyperthreading) and perhaps some indie games that will never be CPU bound regardless.

Explaining how threads and cores are related is kind of hard and requires some CPU knowledge but if you want to dig deeper just google it and you will find tons of information.

Scottoest · Jun 11, 2020

Rumpestump said:
Basically every AAA developer will chose to use the "slower" 16 threads since that is by far the better option enabling them to get much more out of the CPU and this will especially be the case when building a new game on next gen consoles while the other mode will probably only be used by Xbox BC (last gen consoles had 8 cores and no hyperthreading) and perhaps some indie games that will never be CPU bound regardless.

Explaining how threads and cores are related is kind of hard and requires some CPU knowledge but if you want to dig deeper just google it and you will find tons of information.

As I recall, Microsoft expected a lot of early next- and cross-gen games to use the SMT-disabled mode too, because many existing engines aren't yet optimized for it.

christocolus · Jun 11, 2020

Rumpestump said:
Basically every AAA developer will chose to use the "slower" 16 threads since that is by far the better option enabling them to get much more out of the CPU and this will especially be the case when building a new game on next gen consoles while the other mode will probably only be used by Xbox BC (last gen consoles had 8 cores and no hyperthreading) and perhaps some indie games that will never be CPU bound regardless.

Explaining how threads and cores are related is kind of hard and requires some CPU knowledge but if you want to dig deeper just google it and you will find tons of information.

Thanks a lot. I think it's much clearer now.

TechBoss · Jun 11, 2020

McFly said:
Means their engine is highly threaded and favors more cores/threads rather than fewer higher clocked cores. SMT allows independent threads of execution to better utilize the resources and improves the overall efficiency of CPUs . To me this benefits games on PC that has lots of cores and threads.

^

McFly · Jun 11, 2020

TechBoss said:
^

Congratulations on your game and hats off to giving us a 120fps mode. I can't wait to play it on next Gen consoles.

christocolus said:
I understand it just a bit better now. lol. Thanks.

Awesome. I pick up a few things hanging around this forum with lots of smart folks. ^^^

Stacey · Jun 11, 2020

McFly said:
Means their engine is highly threaded and favors more cores/threads rather than fewer higher clocked cores. SMT allows independent threads of execution to better utilize the resources and improves the overall efficiency of CPUs . To me this benefits games on PC that has lots of cores and threads.

So owners of the "recommended" Ryzen 3600 are shit out of luck?

McFly · Jun 11, 2020

Stacey said:
So owners of the "recommended" Ryzen 3600 are shit out of luck?

Not at all. Ryzen 3600 is still very performant and has 12 threads SMT. I'm just glad we're finally leaving quad cores behind. Its been a long time coming.

Stacey · Jun 11, 2020

McFly said:
Not at all. Ryzen 3600 is still very performant and has 12 threads SMT. I'm just glad we're finally leaving quad cores behind. Its been a long time coming.

Indeed. Thanks for your reply.

Pitchfork · Jun 11, 2020

Matt said:
It's great. MS can honestly say "most powerful," Sony can honestly say "fastest," and the only people with a problem with either of those will be irrational "fans."

Marvel vs DC - Thor vs Flash

eso76 · Jun 11, 2020

MrKlaw said:
Its an odd interview. A strange mix of nice detailed technical bits, sprinkled with PR phrases straight from the MS playbook.

I won't lie, that's what I thought at first; the interview did sound an awful lot like PR requested from MS.
And it was needed in days when everyone seems to be in love with PS5 and Sony.

But the interview shows tech director's enthusiasm is genuine.
Interesting stuff. Still, I don't like Major Nelson's character.

CliveLH · Jun 11, 2020

TechBoss said:
^

I'm still a bit confused about that part

Some people have a misconception that frame times and performance are limited to just how fast your GPU is, but CPU performance is obviously critical too, it would be no good if you had a GPU that can render beautiful visuals at 4K at 120fps if you don't have a CPU that can generate enough frame data to render that quickly on the GPU. A powerful GPU needs a powerful CPU to back it up and Xbox Series X delivers this. Being able to spread more work across all those cores, in a scalable engine like the one we have at Cheshire Studio means that we have more CPU time left to spend on improved physics, lower latency input, AI updates – we're able to deliver more than we could before.

I get the messaging there, but the example mention running 4K at 120 FPS. It was my understanding that the game would run at 4K OR 120 FPS but not both at the same time. Is Dirt 5 actually gonna run at 4K@120 ?

Niks · Jun 11, 2020

McFly said:
Congratulations on your game and hats off to giving us a 120fps mode. I can't wait to play it on next Gen consoles.

Afaik youtube doesnt support 120 fps videos?

I wonder if MS and Sony will make a push for youtube to support it, because how else are devs able to "show" it.
(then again you would need a supporting monitor or tv to be able to "see" it).

MrKlaw · Jun 11, 2020

eso76 said:
I won't lie, that's what I thought at first; the interview did sound an awful lot like PR requested from MS.
And it was needed in days when everyone seems to be in love with PS5 and Sony.

But the interview shows tech director's enthusiasm is genuine.
Interesting stuff. Still, I don't like Major Nelson's character.

must be a nightmare to be the media face of a game. "Lets tell them all about our amazing engine. It has great weather fe....what's that Fred? We can't tell them much about the weather becuase that's planned for a gamespot article in August? Ok I'll talk around it. But they'll love what we have to say about F1 cla.... we can't talk about F1 becuase thats an exclusive with IGN in September... ok. What the fuck can I say?"

McFly · Jun 11, 2020

Niks said:
Afaik youtube doesnt support 120 fps videos?

I wonder if MS and Sony will make a push for youtube to support it, because how else are devs able to "show" it.
(then again you would need a supporting monitor or tv to be able to "see" it).

I'm holding out for a good 120Hz TV.

Respawn · Jun 11, 2020

A driving game on consoles with instant loading. I love it.

Tappin Brews · Jun 11, 2020

blodtann said:
Well, the old one broke. Happens all the time!

i've already planted those seeds ;)

TV help, weird screen defect, Panasonic P60S60

Hey guys, I've had this weird pattern for 6-12 months on my tv, but either I'm getting more sensitive to it, or its getting worse - it seems to have grown from primarily the center of the screen outward. Heres a picture with the TV off where you can see the semi-broken vertical column like...

www.resetera.com

Edgar · Jun 11, 2020

Pitchfork said:
Marvel vs DC - Thor vs Flash

More like hulk vs flash

Dokkaebi G0SU · Jun 11, 2020

"It really came to life when i started to use SMT"*

the CPU is going to be so goooood.

Biggzy · Jun 11, 2020

Samurai G0SU said:
"It really came to life when i started to use SMT"*

the CPU is going to be so goooood.

It will feel good to get away from the jaguar cpus. What developers have managed to extract from them has been astonishing this gen.

professor_t · Jun 11, 2020

TechBoss said:
Hi guys, it's me :)
If you want more information, check out the interview I did with Major Nelson over here on Youtube:

Interview: David Springate, Technical Director for Dirt 5

Larry Hryb, Xbox's Major Nelson talks to David Springate, Technical Director for Dirt 5. Learn more about how Dirt 5 will use the power of Xbox Series X. htt...

www.youtube.com

Great stuff! Thanks for the insights.

Just one other thing - when you say it's a holiday release, what you're really saying is that it's a launch game, but you can't give the date until MS reveals it. If I'm warm, blink twice.

Dokkaebi G0SU · Jun 11, 2020

Biggzy said:
It will feel good to get away from the jaguar cpus. What développers have managed to extract from them has been astonishing this gen.

Absolutely agree. These next-gen machines are going to be wonderful for everyone involved. :) Really excited but wish i was a bit younger when i had more time to play all of these games! lol

HaloForzaGuy · Jun 11, 2020

https://twitter.com/xboxuk/status/1271096604867649536?s=19

Confirmed

Stacey · Jun 11, 2020

Wave said:
https://twitter.com/xboxuk/status/1271096604867649536?s=19

Confirmed

4k
120fps
ray tracing

WTF.

EDIT:: Oh, I forget its a cross gen game.

Terbinator · Jun 11, 2020

Wave said:
https://twitter.com/xboxuk/status/1271096604867649536?s=19

Confirmed

You realise you will see every game in 4K as your output right?

HaloForzaGuy · Jun 11, 2020

Terbinator said:
You realise you will see every game in 4K as your output right?

The inclusion of raytracing with 120FPS is new

TheTyrantShow · Jun 11, 2020

shark97 said:
Well this is the closest thing to an xbox hardware thread I could find on a quick look. I just noticed from a tweet and then going o Xbox Wire, Xbox is playing up "Most powerful gaming console" a lot now. Before they would asterisk it to say most powerful Xbox console or whatever. Now they're just saying it (I guess it's safe after PS5 Flops reveal).

Everything You Need to Know about Xbox Series X and The Future of Xbox… So Far - Xbox Wire

MORE IMMERSIVE AND RESPONSIVE GAMES FROM THE WORLD’S MOST POWERFUL CONSOLE The Xbox Series X will be the ultimate console for players who want the most immersive games from a device designed, built and optimized for gaming with zero compromises. Powered by our next generation, custom designed...

news.xbox.com

Examples

They are laying it on thick. Maybe they have been and I just noticed?

Have you read Greenberg's twitter?

Theorry · Jun 13, 2020

4K isnt really a fixed thing anymore to be fair. In gaming language.

Broman1978 · Jun 13, 2020

Is TechBoss allowed to talk about the differences between the XSX and PS5 version of Dirt5? Just curious 🤔🙂

Inside Xbox Series X Optimized: Dirt 5 - Devs talk SSD & ease of development on XSX

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