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Streusel

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Dec 28, 2017
2,407
Saw this posted in the Xbox Game Studios thread, the gameplay demos for Gears 5, Outer Worlds and Quick Resume (which shows some Jedi Fallen Order footage), which were only shown partially in the Inside Series S demonstration, are available in full length here (under "See Xbox Series S in action"):
https://xbox.event.microsoft.com/#lockhart

Both the Outer Worlds and Jedi Fallen Order run in BC mode though, i think.
 

chandoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,071
Both the Outer Worlds and Jedi Fallen Order run in BC mode though, i think.

Which would mean that outside of superficial improvements like faster load times and no frame rate drops, there wouldn't be any improvements close to Gears 5's 120hz MP, right ?

As in, the game would functionally be running like it would on an Xbox One S.
 
OP
OP
Streusel

Streusel

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Dec 28, 2017
2,407
Which would mean that outside of superficial improvements like faster load times and no frame rate drops, there wouldn't be any improvements close to Gears 5's 120hz MP, right ?

As in, the game would functionally be running like it would on an Xbox One S.
don't think so, although Outer Worlds is from Xbox Game Studios, so it should probably get a nextgen patch
 

DarkManX

Member
Dec 20, 2017
752
Yeah, if they get patched, that's a different thing .. but running in barebones BC mode would mean they're the same as S right ?

To deliver the highest quality backwards compatible experience consistent with the developer's original intent, the Xbox Series S runs the Xbox One S version of backward compatible games while applying improved texture filtering, higher and more consistent frame rates, faster load times and Auto HDR."

this is what change on XsS
 

Mahonay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,316
Pencils Vania
My lord those Outer World loading times for Xbox One S lmao. Loading on Series S is literally a night and day difference. I am so happy we are finally getting our first gen where all the consoles have SSDs. It's going to be so fucking nice.
 

bcatwilly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,483
Yeah, if they get patched, that's a different thing .. but running in barebones BC mode would mean they're the same as S right ?

Microsoft has said that they will still have improved texture filtering, higher frame rates, faster load times, and auto HDR. The games just won't have Xbox One X 4K enhancement because the Series S is targeting 1440p resolution.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,578
improving load times without any patches is pretty dope!

Do we know anything about sony doing something similar? Was that spiderman load times demo a long time ago just a demonstration for the ssd tech, or will the ps4 bc of ps5 be similar?
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,116
Amalthea
improving load times without any patches is pretty dope!

Do we know anything about sony doing something similar? Was that spiderman load times demo a long time ago just a demonstration for the ssd tech, or will the ps4 bc of ps5 be similar?
I think we'll maybe hear a little bit about the OS and BC next wednesday, but at the moment the most I'm assuming is that games will load faster just not perform better than running on the PS4. So to answer your question, yes lol
 

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,991
London
Microsoft has said that they will still have improved texture filtering, higher frame rates, faster load times, and auto HDR. The games just won't have Xbox One X 4K enhancement because the Series S is targeting 1440p resolution.

I keep seeing people say that these games won't be 4K because the S is a 1440p machine, so should we expect Xbox One games to run at their original resolution or 1440p?
 

RivalGT

Member
Dec 13, 2017
6,393
Microsoft has said that they will still have improved texture filtering, higher frame rates, faster load times, and auto HDR. The games just won't have Xbox One X 4K enhancement because the Series S is targeting 1440p resolution.
Well not all xbox one X games have 4K enhancements, so really its just xbox one X enhancements that are not supported. For ex some xbox one X games run at 1080p or have 1080p performance modes.
 

chandoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,071
I keep on seeing people say that these games won't be 4K because the S is a 1440p machine, so should we expect Xbox One games to run at their original resolution or 1440p?
They went out of their way to mention performance and filtering but didn't say anything about resolutions, so guessing 720p for 360 and whatever resolution the Xbox one s version ran at.
 

caiocmsouza

Member
Jan 31, 2018
158
Saw this posted in the Xbox Game Studios thread, the gameplay demos for Gears 5, Outer Worlds and Quick Resume (which shows some Jedi Fallen Order footage), which were only shown partially in the Inside Series S demonstration, are available in full length here (under "See Xbox Series S in action"):
https://xbox.event.microsoft.com/#lockhart

Both the Outer Worlds and Jedi Fallen Order run in BC mode though, i think.

I saw in the video that gears has 2 modes: 1080 @ 120 and 1440p @ 60

What is the settings? High Settings? Ultra?
 

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,991
London
It's gonna run the One S versions unless the developer does the work and patches their game.
That isn't adequate, imo.
They went out of their way to mention performance and filtering but didn't say anything about resolutions, so guessing 720p for 360 and whatever resolution the Xbox one s version ran at.
I actually thought they were talking about BC games on One S and X in relation to the Series S.
 

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,991
London
One thing I'm hoping to see in the Series S is improved texture loading for older software. Games like Fallen Order will benefit from it.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
18,413
If the BC game has variable resolution/framerate, the Series S version will cap out both 99% of the time. Someone should spin up Bioshock.
 
Nov 8, 2017
13,099
I keep seeing people say that these games won't be 4K because the S is a 1440p machine, so should we expect Xbox One games to run at their original resolution or 1440p?

By default, it will run at their original resolutions. If the game had a dynamic resolution scaler, it will have a higher average resolution up to the target cieling (e.g. Doom 2016 probably runs at full 1080p now).

If developers release patches, it could support any resolution they want after patching, which could be up to 4k.
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,072
Which would mean that outside of superficial improvements like faster load times and no frame rate drops, there wouldn't be any improvements close to Gears 5's 120hz MP, right ?

As in, the game would functionally be running like it would on an Xbox One S.
Gears 5 they put extra work to do 120hz, I think Matt was saying gears really isn't BC and almost more like being remade in a sense.

The BC team has little to nothing to do with games that get ported to the Series. Gears runs how it does because it's been individually tailored to the new platform by its developers.

which makes sense.
 

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,991
London
By default, it will run at their original resolutions. If the game had a dynamic resolution scaler, it will have a higher average resolution up to the target cieling (e.g. Doom 2016 probably runs at full 1080p now).

If developers release patches, it could support any resolution they want after patching, which could be up to 4k.

Yep, that is what I feared, unfortunately. I've been using a One X since launch, so playing some of the older games at One S presets on the Series S isn't enticing.

If I end up getting the Series S instead of the X, I'll likely stick with S|X optimised games.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,348
Canada
I want 1440p. But yeah I get it, there's a lot of work involved in getting current-gen games patched to display at 1440p on the Series S.
Probably not exactly what you're looking for, but when they were detailing BC on Series X a few months back, they mentioned new methods of enhancing old games without developer input. This applies to all generations of Xbox, including Xbox One. They showcased Gears of War Anniversary Edition running in 4K -- a game that was never patched on the Xbox One X. It's possible they'll have these sort of enhancements for Series S but at 1440p.
 

garion333

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,722
Gears 5 120hz runs like Unreal Tournament used to on my CRT. We've finally made it, 20 years later, we can twitch game like we used to.

Man, that took forever.
 

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,991
London
Probably not exactly what you're looking for, but when they were detailing BC on Series X a few months back, they mentioned new methods of enhancing old games without developer input. This applies to all generations of Xbox, including Xbox One. They showcased Gears of War Anniversary Edition running in 4K -- a game that was never patched on the Xbox One X. It's possible they'll have these sort of enhancements for Series S but at 1440p.

That'd be great if possible. I mean even 1080p will suffice with some good AA.
 

cyrribrae

Chicken Chaser
Member
Jan 21, 2019
12,723
Cool. Good to see the BC team is still making magic. Auto HDR is a very cool ML function, and texture filtering is nice (One X already did this for 360 and One BC games). I'm actually pretty excited for Quick Resume XD. One feature request (can I just like.. tag in Major Nelson lolll) is if we could "pin" a game as an always available Quick Resume. So like, no matter how many games I play, I want to always instantly be able to get back into a quick comfort food game, for example. Maybe that's like Stardew or Peggle or something lol.

Well not all xbox one X games have 4K enhancements, so really its just xbox one X enhancements that are not supported. For ex some xbox one X games run at 1080p or have 1080p performance modes.
I think this is getting overlooked. The One X versions of BC games are largely identical to One S versions, unless specifically enhanced by the BC team (just a handful of games). The One X versions of ONE games are better supported, but there's also many many games that never got enhancements either.

Yep, that is what I feared, unfortunately. I've been using a One X since launch, so playing some of the older games at One S presets on the Series S isn't enticing.

If I end up getting the Series S instead of the X, I'll likely stick with S|X optimised games.
I mean, yea. The Series S isn't really meant for us. The Series S is the replacement for the One S. It's a better console than anything last gen, but it's targeted at the same people who bought the One S. I think most of us on this forum weren't impressed by One/One S, and yet - it sold far, far better than the One X (and I'd even say it's not impossible better than PS4 Pro). If you want an upgraded experience at the same level as your X, well... get an X. Naming convention redeemed LOL.

I just think it's unreasonable to expect MS to prioritize the niche of gamers who are upgrading from X to S, rather than the millions of people who will be able to jump in on next gen much earlier than before because the console is $50 or $100 cheaper than if they had gone with a 6TF RDN2 and a few extra gigs of RAM. You know? *It plays all of the games* *That's already huge*
 

dock

Game Designer
Verified
Nov 5, 2017
1,368
HDR MP 120 ML RDN2 6TF BC... this thread is acronym and jargon riddled.

The lack of jargon is why I think the Xbox Series S is an excellent move for Microsoft, and it may well give them the edge for the next two years. The cheap one runs all the Xbox games, but at a lower resolution than the higher end model/s. It's like DVD vs Blu-Ray, how much fidelity do you really care about.

I also expect people Series S to migrate into a second unit in the bedroom/den with a Series X on the big new TV. It's an excellent entry point.
 
Apr 4, 2018
4,509
Vancouver, BC
Yep, that is what I feared, unfortunately. I've been using a One X since launch, so playing some of the older games at One S presets on the Series S isn't enticing.

If I end up getting the Series S instead of the X, I'll likely stick with S|X optimised games.

I would expect the same treatment and dedication from the BC team for both XSX and XSS that X1X got. All X1 games will now be considered BC, and if the developer doesn't upgrade them, then I would expect the backwards compatibility team to possibly focus a lot of their efforts on releasing 60fps and resolution upgrades for X1 games.

For example, they've already shown Gears of War Ultimate Edition running at 4K on Series X. I would expect it to also run at 1440p on XSS. I would also not be surprised at all to see the backcompat team tweak a lot, if not all their older X1X upgrades for XSS and XSX. What I'm most excited for though, is to see what games the BC team double framerate on. The FPS upgrades will definitely come to both consoles.


Come to think of it. not all games will support it or it works for.
For example. Destiny kicks you out of the game after inactivity for a while. With it being a online game really.

Yep, some of the games I want it most for would be MP games. It would be amazing to hop right onto the Sea in Sea of Thieves, but we will always be bottlenecked by matchmaking. At least we'll be able to completely bypass initial loads, and hope straight into the main menu. It will be glorious for SP games especially though.
 

chandoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,071
Come to think of it. not all games will support it or it works for.
For example. Destiny kicks you out of the game after inactivity for a while. With it being a online game really.

Avengers on the PS4 was also real bad in terms of suspend/resume. 3 out of 4 times the game straight up crashed when I tried to do that.

Hopefully the coming gen is much better about these features.
 

NickMitch

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,289
Online games will never be suspendeable i think. Why would you be able to occupy server space, while not playing the game? Hopefully though, developers will learn to break out the single player offline parts, so it actually becomes suspendeable. Unlikely though sad enough.
 

TechnicPuppet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,809
improving load times without any patches is pretty dope!

Do we know anything about sony doing something similar? Was that spiderman load times demo a long time ago just a demonstration for the ssd tech, or will the ps4 bc of ps5 be similar?

It will be the same on PS5. BC stuff without any patches or that will still load way quicker.
 

Liabe Brave

Professionally Enhanced
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,672
...and texture filtering is nice (One X already did this for 360 and One BC games).
It's not certain that Series S will add higher AF to Xbox One games by default. This features is reliant on VRAM bandwidth, which is exactly the area believed to be bottlenecking the Series S and stopping universal One X enhancements. (It'll probably still improve AF for the less-demanding 360 games.)

The One X versions of BC games are largely identical to One S versions, unless specifically enhanced by the BC team (just a handful of games). The One X versions of ONE games are better supported, but there's also many many games that never got enhancements either.
You're right that enhanced original Xbox and 360 games are a pretty small number, less than 100 titles. But One X enhanced games, though they represent a minority percentage of Xbox One games overall, aren't negligible. It's over 600 titles, and is concentrated on the most popular and widest played. (I bet almost all of the top 100 are in there; only Minecraft and Roblox come to mind as exceptions.)

I think most of us on this forum weren't impressed by One/One S, and yet - it sold far, far better than the One X (and I'd even say it's not impossible better than PS4 Pro).
This is partially incorrect. When both were around the Xbox One S sold only a little better than One X. Initial reports were that it was about 70:30 to start (2.3x), but quickly the X proportion increased. For much of its lifespan the ratio was about 60:40 (1.5x), if not even lower. The gap is greater in absolute terms, because One S launched a year earlier, and apparently will stay on shelves a bit longer too. But when consumers had a choice between them, the One S price advantage didn't translate to a gigantic preference.

You're right that One S and PS4 Pro sold close to the same amount, though. Not when One X was on shelves--then, Pro was outselling One S by a wide margin. But there was a year where Pro was out but One S was the only Xbox One model available, so it outsold Sony's machine and built a headstart. If after Pro launched it represents less than 30% of sales, then One S was never surpassed. If over 30%, Pro has by now sold more. From what we can reconstruct about sales ratios, the former is the case and One S edged out the win.

Wouldn't this also apply for the the 360 and OG back compatibility games? Meaning they would have improvements over them running on the One S - even if they wouldn't run in 4k like they did on the One X..
As far as we can surmise, here's how the benefits break down:

Code:
                    XBOX ONE X       XBOX SERIES S
Original Xbox       1920p            960p
n=~50               Maxed fps        Maxed fps
                                     Faster loading
                                     Simulated HDR

Xbox 360            2160p  (usual)   720p (usual)
(One X patch)       Maxed fps        Maxed fps
n=~50               Higher AF        Higher AF
                    Some HDR or      Faster loading
                    other benefits   Simulated HDR

Xbox 360            720p (usual)     720p (usual)
(other)             Maxed fps        Maxed fps
n=~550              Higher AF        Higher AF
                                     Faster loading
                                     Simulated HDR

Xbox One            2160p (usual)    900p (usual)
(One X patch)       Maxed fps, or    Maxed fps
n=~600              high fps mode    Faster loading
                    Some textures    Simulated HDR
                    or f/x improved

Xbox One            900p (usual)     900p (usual)
(other)             Maxed fps        Maxed fps
n=~2000             Higher AF        ???
                                     Faster loading
                                     Simulated HDR