PS: Here is the itch.io page as well: https://winternightgames.itch.io/arkhangel-the-house-of-the-seven-stars
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Indie Game Development |OT 2018| Come, help, learn, show and tell!
- Thread starter Popstar
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Your game looks good.
I think one thing that complicates it for you is that you have a linear single player game. Once a person has played it, general patches will not push them to return to the game. Is a content update feasible that adds gameplay in addition to the main campaign? It's not necessarily a good idea anyway but something like that could help set up a bigger marketing push. You could also try porting the game to consoles. Again that might be horrible advice depending on your situation but it could help the game in general.
Yeah, that's definitely a struggle and we knew going in that we were making a super niche game. I've been looking at porting to Switch at some point...although, I would have to do a full rewrite of the save/load system which is pretty terrifying...might be worth hiring someone that specializes in that sort of thing, though.
It does help that we *just* updated the controller to have full controller support, though, so that component is at least taken care of! :D
Looks cool! Is this an online course? I've been interested in learning Blender.
I've had a lot of fun learning Blender, and version 2.8 is around the corner with a ton of awesome new stuff, but there are also juuuuuust enough UI changes (all for the better, largely) to throw me off lol.
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Yes it is!
https://www.udemy.com/blendertutorial/
I have picked up a bunch of courses that this instructor puts out. Have really enjoyed all of the time that I've spent with them:
https://www.udemy.com/user/gamedevtv/
How is the Switch approval process nowadays?
Setting up saved games for Switch shouldn't be too bad I imagine. Are you not using playerprefs or byte arrays?
I honestly haven't gone down that rabbit hole yet. I'm vaguely terrified to do so. :D
Regarding the save system, I'm using a third-party asset called Adventure Creator as the centralized "brain" of the game and AC saves separate files to the system's Application.persistentDataPath by default - but an interface to save to PlayerPrefs is also included, so in theory, it should be fairly painless to get something working...
Famous last words. ;)
I wish you the best of luck.
On a separate note, I really need to figure out how to create good sound effects. Anyone have any advice on that? I have a high quality microphone and can use audacity but nothing I make ever sounds professional. For example right now I'm trying to make a sound effect for collecting 100s of coins after a level. Is there another program that I should try?
edt: I got the coins to sound good enough by making a unity script that repeated the sound insync with the game's visuals.
On a separate note, I really need to figure out how to create good sound effects. Anyone have any advice on that? I have a high quality microphone and can use audacity but nothing I make ever sounds professional. For example right now I'm trying to make a sound effect for collecting 100s of coins after a level. Is there another program that I should try?
edt: I got the coins to sound good enough by making a unity script that repeated the sound insync with the game's visuals.
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Thanks!
Re: SFX - what sort of style are you looking for? Something "real" sounding or something arcade-y/retro?
I will say start exploring processing like EQ, Compression/Limiting, Chorus, Delay, and Reverb. Also some good resources out there for sound design education:
http://designingsound.org/
https://www.asoundeffect.com/ - this is both an online store for SFX libraries and a huge blog/article section. You might actually see an article that I wrote buried somewhere in there. ;)
Thank you Mike! This is really great advice! Making the updates.
I'm still around for a few more days before leaving for no-internet land, but I don't foresee any earth-shattering changes to Pacha in the meantime, so here's a yearly recap post to review what happened this year: https://www.patreon.com/posts/23364410 along with a video with two concurrent unedited playthroughs of the latest prototype, each as a single character only as a challenge and means to demonstrate their strengths/weaknesses and some of the different paths available.
(also, the banner is moving at a snail's pace, sorry about that, but it's still coming - expect it sometime in january, most likely, though!)
(also, the banner is moving at a snail's pace, sorry about that, but it's still coming - expect it sometime in january, most likely, though!)
The amount of work you're putting in both Pacha and the other stuff is frankly dizzying! Feel free to post some of the gifs from your Patreon post here, I think a lot of people will appreciate them. Also, I had no clue you were working on Indivisible, wow!
Take it easy with the banner, it's not like anyone is paying you for it and you have your place full to the brim. I myself haven't been active at all in the thread (sorry about that), as a result of me being far more busy lately having to juggle my game with taking non-game-related online courses with looking for a job to sustain myself (and also ResetEra deciding that if you don't check a thread after it notifies you once, that means you don't care at all and should stop notifying you forever). I've not even been posting my own #screenshotsaturdays, so here's yesterday's:
Also, I'm considering several color schemes for the robot above. It's meant to look like a heroic super robot, even though it's an enemy, since you're the alien invader. Which ones do you guys like most?
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I finally finished our (Camjo-z & mine) game. Only took like 5 to 6 years lol. I'm excited to finally have it released.
I used to be a Nintendo Developer, so on that front I knew who to contact to give review codes, to get noticed, etc. But as a fresh PC/Mac indie, I'm unsure how to go forward to get noticed in anyway. I have a decent Twitter following, but after many years, they are mainly Nintendo only gamers lol.
Anyone have any good ideas or tips? Currently my game is on itch.io only currently. Later on I want to get it on Steam as well as Discord Game Store early next year.
Here's a prototype of my student team game, Project Abyss.
You can download the zip here.
The biggest feedback I've had so far is that people still have a hard time understanding how each light color functions. Please test it and offer any suggestions and examples.
You can download the zip here.
The biggest feedback I've had so far is that people still have a hard time understanding how each light color functions. Please test it and offer any suggestions and examples.
I really like the texture style here, reminds me of a story book.Adding winter stuff. 🤣🤣🤣
I've recently made the decision to slightly change the theming of one of my oldest levels from "prehistoric snow" to "prehistoric Christmas". Despite the nonsense of it all, it suddenly feels like a much more fun area to explore!
I made a late change to the mechanics that I'd been mulling over for months. I put in a free aim mode that is accessed by holding L2 while on the ground. It locks your feet in place and lets you aim with the analog stick.
https://streamable.com/9kz7k
(in case it's not obvious, this video is cropped in so as to be more legible when embedded)
I'm really warming up to it, since aiming at small targets (which sometimes benefits you) is pretty awkward when you have to position yourself to do it while aiming only within 45 degree increments.
https://streamable.com/9kz7k
(in case it's not obvious, this video is cropped in so as to be more legible when embedded)
I'm really warming up to it, since aiming at small targets (which sometimes benefits you) is pretty awkward when you have to position yourself to do it while aiming only within 45 degree increments.
Semi realistic but like a toy/cartoon. Here is a screenshot from my game.
Thank you for the links.
I liked the music and art. The video seemed longer than it needed to be though, especially once the walking character disappeared.
I'm currently considering commissioning some key art for my game, and I don't really know where to start. I'm planning on poking around Twitter and ArtStation and asking around, but maybe there are some obvious resources I'm missing?
I've been thinking about making a thread for this but I figure I'd try here first.
I want to produce an Indie game.
I'm aware of the lofty bounds this endeavor requires, but it's a dream of mine and a goal that is important to me. I do not pursue this goal with any expectations of monetary reward or fame. I simply want to make a game that I would want to play, and would be fulfilled solely by the fact that I contributed to it with my own effort.
I want to know where to start in terms of funding, scale, and legalities. I am not a developer, nor an artist. My creative contribution, if any, would include narrative and overall design direction. My primary motivation is to serve as a producer. Whether it be becoming involved in someone else's project, or starting from scratch, I'm eager to find like-minded developers who want a shot to start off. As for my own ideas, I have a General Design Document of a game of my own and an artist ready to drum up some concept art of certain gameplay elements and art direction. I'm not doing this expecting to make the next Journey or Braid. Like I said, I want to make a game that I'd enjoy playing, and have some funding to work with (I'd rather not disclose until I have a better understanding of the scale of projects).
Where should I start in learning the ropes of the executive side of development?
I want to produce an Indie game.
I'm aware of the lofty bounds this endeavor requires, but it's a dream of mine and a goal that is important to me. I do not pursue this goal with any expectations of monetary reward or fame. I simply want to make a game that I would want to play, and would be fulfilled solely by the fact that I contributed to it with my own effort.
I want to know where to start in terms of funding, scale, and legalities. I am not a developer, nor an artist. My creative contribution, if any, would include narrative and overall design direction. My primary motivation is to serve as a producer. Whether it be becoming involved in someone else's project, or starting from scratch, I'm eager to find like-minded developers who want a shot to start off. As for my own ideas, I have a General Design Document of a game of my own and an artist ready to drum up some concept art of certain gameplay elements and art direction. I'm not doing this expecting to make the next Journey or Braid. Like I said, I want to make a game that I'd enjoy playing, and have some funding to work with (I'd rather not disclose until I have a better understanding of the scale of projects).
Where should I start in learning the ropes of the executive side of development?
This is going to come across as dismissive but please trust I've seen something like this enough to know what I'm talking about, and I'm not just trying to be callous and rude.
Loads of people have ideas for games. Loads of people would love to be the creative lead. And, frankly, ideas are a dime a dozen. Good games might start with a good idea, but they only shine with good execution. So what do you do if you want to make a game and you don't have a pedigree strong enough to procure funding and employees? Make it yourself. Learn to draw. Learn to program.
The vast majority of independent developers are not raising funding. Maybe a lot of the ones you've heard of did, but that's almost always because they were able to show some proof of concept or are a known quantity in the industry ahead of raising funds. There's no investor or bank out there that you can just say "plz give me money for making a game". They'll want to see that you have the skills and work ethic to actually get the job done. They'll want to see that your game has an audience. They'll want to see that you're not just going to take their money and run or goof off, and that enough people will eventually buy the game.
You don't have to be the lead programmer. You don't have to be the lead artist. But you should be at least somewhat competent in both of those areas so that you can put something together and prove that you're worth helping out.
I'm afraid that getting funding for indie games is really hard even for projects that are quite far along and don't need a lot of money. For a project that's a design document and would require at least three people (you, the artist and the programmer), and where the producer has no experience in prior shipped titles, you're simply not going to find any publisher or private investor that's willing to throw their money at you. Think of it this way, would you give your money to someone who has made no games and asks you for the salaries of three people to make their dream game?
The only viable options I see are:
- If you have a huge online presence (in other words, you're a Youtuber / influencer and have hundreds of thousands of followers), you might be able to make a successful Kickstarter. Getting your game noticed is a huge challenge, probably the biggest one today, so if you already have an audience, that's an enormous boost.
- Otherwise, just make your game as a hobby, in your free time, while having a day job. This may sound depressing and it's certainly going to take more (and need more discipline), but it's an actual possibility, because nowadays game development takes relatively little investment beyond time from everyone involved.
Also, if you're serious about this, I would check out the courses I mentioned here:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/in...ome-help-learn-show-and-tell.463/post-5908836
They're entry level; I think anyone can follow them without any issue, and will give you a holistic understanding of everything that goes into a game and how they work, which will be crucial for any kind of informed decision or estimation about your game. Especially if you intend to be a game designer, knowing your way around Unity will allow you to, say, put together all the levels, without having to write a line of code.
Thanks for the suggestions! I'm still not sure if this is something I want to do, but inquiries can't hurt.
No doubt that I should be familiar with the tools that are going to be used. However, it's bigger picture things like even figuring out which tools/engines will work best for a project depending on the scope of the game which I want to learn. Before any of the groundwork, and the initial investment, there are a few basic logistical issues that Id want to have knowledge before attempting to organize a project. That's the issue I came into the thread seeking help with. I live in one of the few areas where access to young, eager developers is in no short supply and have artists who have expressed a desire to work together already. The issue for me is getting a sense of the scale of the executive side of producing a game. So many inexperienced, inspired young devs jump into projects with their friends or coworkers out of sheer comraderie and excitement, and quickly find the process to be far more daunting than what just passing interest can overcome. If Im going to do this, I want to do it right, and I want to familiarize myself with the process more than just what surface level knowledge most gamers have of indie development. Again, this isnt a starry-eyed passion that I think can get whipped up over night. It's an important goal for me in my business life.
Thank you for the link, I'm going to spend the day looking into this.
I meant to allude that I have a fair bit of capital to work with in funding my own title, not so much that Im trying to raise funding myself, but the issue I stated earlier is getting my bearings on the scale of production and how to become more familiar and/or learning from devs who've produced their own games. The bolded is more akin to my expectations. Like I said, it's not so much about making a "dream" game as just making a game that I enjoy playing myself and being proud of the effort.
EDIT: And on the very miniscule offchance our game has any level of success, knowing how to build on that success and dealing with the legal and logistical issues is what Id want to have a grasp on before committing to that much of an initial investment.
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Since you're putting your own money in this, I think this might be of interest to you. It was handed to us by Jason Della Rocca during a lecture I recently attended:
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/JakeBirkett/20181008/328091/How_to_choose_what_game_to_make_next.php
It seems kind of obvious in retrospect but it's true many of us forget one of these aspects.
As for getting a grasp of the logistics and amount of work involved in a game... well that's the million dollar question. :) Pretty much literally everyone gets these estimates wrong, including people who have worked on multiple shipped titles in the past. The rule of thumb is that your estimate is going to undershoot reality every time: it's just a matter of trying to undershoot by units rather than orders of magnitude. I guess you could do worse than to tell us about the kind and scope of the game that you want to make, and gather opinions from everyone in the thread.
I'll PM you specifics but as for my own ideas in terms of scope (and again I'm fully aware that the collaborative effort of employing and producing a game may very well end up leading to an entirely different project than what simple ideas I have in mind) I'm very much inspired by the tactical RPG style gameplay that Darkest Dungeon provides, as well as the basic format of collecting currency from missions that the player sends a party of hired characters to complete in order to complete increasingly rewarding/difficult missions. There would be a central hub to customize/upgrade a party of characters and maintain certain gameplay elements, and then there would be a larger map (basically a mission table) to choose missions from, not unlike the basic framework of Darkest Dungeon. The gameplay itself would obviously revolve around combat, and the core appeal of the game is the player making smart decisions in deciding how to invest their currencies correctly to get maximum efficiency with a goal of completing the main objective. Not completing the main objective does not spell out a hard fail-state, but simply a reset that encourages the player to reevaluate their strategy and approach the map with different tactics in mind. Completing the goal will ultimately reward them with a better starting-off point for the next playthrough, but the game will have adjusted to countering the strategies they used in the previous playthrough to ensure a challenge.
To that end, I don't expect an +18 month development timetable or, least of all, $313,000 in crowdfunding to work with, but that general experience I think can be replicated on a smaller scale with some of the ideas I have in mind. I want to emphasize party composition, character customization, and player retention in the form of tactical decision making (every decision in choosing which mission to undertake/which party composition to use should have advantages and disadvantages) that provides a satisfying gameplay loop. One of the pillars of what I believe makes a good game is that the player should feel satisfied walking away from every gameplay session, and designing a game with playthroughs around 1-2 hours of play at a time is the goal. As such, replayability is key.
I am certainly not fain in using the term "roguelike" in achieving this goal, but the same sense of satisfaction should be thought of when describing the gameplay loop. I believe using a humble pixelated artstyle will be best for maintaining the modular approach of the design (consistently outfitting characters, different landscapes, etc.) Whereas something like Darkest Dungeon earnestly leans into the moodiness and gothic style of its setting, I would want to be more tongue-in-cheek and humorous (in a specific way which I won't mention here) in order to maintain the overall brevity that I feel is essential to making a fun game that is meant to be played and replayed in short bursts.
Even with a minuscule budget or amount of experience to work with, I don't believe such an experience is unfeasible in realizing.
OK, I have a lot to say and I'm afraid a lot of it will be discouraging. So, please bear with me, and perhaps take a deep breath before reasing.
1) After seeing the overall pitch you PMed me, I'm not seeing any single game insight that got me thinking "oh, this is a fascinating idea!". It's a marrying of games, with elements taken from each of them, but with no specifically previously unseen elements or even a particularly exciting new marrying of old mechanics that I could see. That doesn't mean it cannot work as a game, or that you shouldn't make it (it does sound like something that could be fun), but I think overprotecting your idea may be counterproductive. Nobody scours ideas like ours to build their own take on it and steal your thunder. When people copy ideas, it's from completed games that have been massively successful, not some unknown indie developer like ourselves with ideas that will most likely not make back the money spent on them. I think discussing your game in depth during development is not only beneficial, but entirely necessary if you want to form any kind of community and fandom for the game.
2) Depending on how complex or simple you want to make your game, and with three people involved, my estimation would be between 2 to 5 years. With 2 years being a highly optimistic scenario of being as unambitious as possible, everyone working full time, having absolutely no setbacks like people leaving the project, your coder being a master that makes the final debugging phase minimal, etc. This is a quite more complex project than it seems on the surface.
3) Don't expect to make money out of this. This isn't the kind of game that sells a lot. That said, most of us are making the games we want, not ones that will sell, so if you're fine with sinking time and money into a game that may sell 500 / 1000 copies, go nuts.
4) 7k$ won't pay for more than a few months of development. If you have people working full time, that's three people's worth of salaries every month. If they're working during their free time while they support themselves with a day job, expect time to completion to dramatically increase. And iIt's going to be nearly impossible to rope in a competent programmer for any significant amount of time unless you pay them.
Sorry to be so negative, but it really doesn't look good at all, and I think you'd be better served with cold realism than with encouragement to take that step forward at the edge of a precipice.
1) After seeing the overall pitch you PMed me, I'm not seeing any single game insight that got me thinking "oh, this is a fascinating idea!". It's a marrying of games, with elements taken from each of them, but with no specifically previously unseen elements or even a particularly exciting new marrying of old mechanics that I could see. That doesn't mean it cannot work as a game, or that you shouldn't make it (it does sound like something that could be fun), but I think overprotecting your idea may be counterproductive. Nobody scours ideas like ours to build their own take on it and steal your thunder. When people copy ideas, it's from completed games that have been massively successful, not some unknown indie developer like ourselves with ideas that will most likely not make back the money spent on them. I think discussing your game in depth during development is not only beneficial, but entirely necessary if you want to form any kind of community and fandom for the game.
2) Depending on how complex or simple you want to make your game, and with three people involved, my estimation would be between 2 to 5 years. With 2 years being a highly optimistic scenario of being as unambitious as possible, everyone working full time, having absolutely no setbacks like people leaving the project, your coder being a master that makes the final debugging phase minimal, etc. This is a quite more complex project than it seems on the surface.
3) Don't expect to make money out of this. This isn't the kind of game that sells a lot. That said, most of us are making the games we want, not ones that will sell, so if you're fine with sinking time and money into a game that may sell 500 / 1000 copies, go nuts.
4) 7k$ won't pay for more than a few months of development. If you have people working full time, that's three people's worth of salaries every month. If they're working during their free time while they support themselves with a day job, expect time to completion to dramatically increase. And iIt's going to be nearly impossible to rope in a competent programmer for any significant amount of time unless you pay them.
Sorry to be so negative, but it really doesn't look good at all, and I think you'd be better served with cold realism than with encouragement to take that step forward at the edge of a precipice.
That's a good point. I've seen a horror story or two from my own profession (not gaming related) that probably makes my caution unnecessary. This is why my goal from the outset isn't necessarily about fulfilling my own personal ideas, but providing a platform for a collaborative effort to be made.
That seems reasonable when put that way. Probably no one could provide a clean answer, but the consistent answer seems to be around 3 years when I read about the development of other Indie games. These games being notable and successful enough to even have their production be something of study already makes them exceptions rather than the rule, but that seems like the most consistent estimate.
If the primary motivation for doing anything creative was making money I wouldn't want to do it.
That's where the logistics question of payment comes in, since the degree of development time and scope can be so wildly varied. So maintaining a salary for a programmer, or an artist, depending on the scale of that kind of project is determined by what standard? (X amount per month or X amount upon completion, etc.)
My business is no doubt just as callous and discouraging so I'm used to it. But this is why if I'm going to make the effort, I'd want to do it right, with all the uglier aspects understood before diving in.
Echoing what Weltall has pointed out. Programmers a super expensive. Look at the median pay for software devs. If you get someone who is inexperienced and willing to work for less, then the you are probably going to get what you are paying for. And if issues pop up and then you decide to go with an experienced dev, they may have to clean up the work the inexperienced dev did.
In my time in college I threw out most of my codebase for my game once because I actually learned how to create a well designed code base. Took off progress on the project but it allowed me to work much faster.
In my time in college I threw out most of my codebase for my game once because I actually learned how to create a well designed code base. Took off progress on the project but it allowed me to work much faster.
Just want to point out you can absolutetly find interested and talented people that are willing to "help out" on a project without having to throw down to much.
You just have to be open and communicate with them, letting them know how it is and what your end-goal is.
As a first time project I would recommend to hold as many ideas back as possible, things gets complex fairly fast.
You just have to be open and communicate with them, letting them know how it is and what your end-goal is.
As a first time project I would recommend to hold as many ideas back as possible, things gets complex fairly fast.
What are the typical entry-level salaries that a new programmer can leverage if they were to be approached? Say you're fresh out of school and you've got some small works from school, student projects etc. and looking at marketing yourself. What are you looking at?
Considering that was just me literally a month ago, the lowest I was willing to work for was 50k a year for most jobs. I have debt to pay back and I can't afford to undersell myself. I probably could go a bit lower depending on the project/contract terms/ expectations.
Just recently got a job I'm starting in the beginning of the year paying more than the 50k I mentioned though so I'm thankful for that. Indie dev stuff will probably be more hobby related for a while now.
So I've been working on design on a game very personal to me to try and get back into dev stuff. Life has been hectic and stressful and just very busy lately so my main project got sidelined.
I've been debating what to use to make this much smaller passion project, it's 2D and basically entirely takes place in a fake tindr equivalent. So everything is just a menu basically.
I want to work quickly and easily on this and I had the idea of using UMG in ue4 to make it but I wanted to know if I'm crazy for making a game that is 99% UMG before I started coding anything xD
I've been debating what to use to make this much smaller passion project, it's 2D and basically entirely takes place in a fake tindr equivalent. So everything is just a menu basically.
I want to work quickly and easily on this and I had the idea of using UMG in ue4 to make it but I wanted to know if I'm crazy for making a game that is 99% UMG before I started coding anything xD
Getting back into Unity scripting with a weekend protoype - bowling with Valve knuckles controllers!
The feeling of throwing the bowling ball works really solidly with knuckles - better feeling than VR bowling with other controllers or the Wiimote.
Getting bowling physics right is still a pain - I'm approximating oil spread with trigger volumes that change the physic material of the ball as it goes down the alley. You can spin the ball but it won't curve as tightly as it would in real life - I imagine that would have to be faked. If you offset the center of mass on the ball a bit to mimic a spin-friendly ball drilling, it works a bit better.
The feeling of throwing the bowling ball works really solidly with knuckles - better feeling than VR bowling with other controllers or the Wiimote.
Getting bowling physics right is still a pain - I'm approximating oil spread with trigger volumes that change the physic material of the ball as it goes down the alley. You can spin the ball but it won't curve as tightly as it would in real life - I imagine that would have to be faked. If you offset the center of mass on the ball a bit to mimic a spin-friendly ball drilling, it works a bit better.
So, definitely record tangible elements like handling/manipulating different real-life objects. For your game, I'd start with plastic items/toys like nerf guns, flashlights, etc...Then do some recordings of different little toys/instruments. Stuff like pop guns, castanets, balloons, etc...If you want to go with some retro sfx layers, check something like this out:Semi realistic but like a toy/cartoon. Here is a screenshot from my game.
Thank you for the links.
.
https://www.bfxr.net/
Experiment with mixing layers together and routing all layers through a final "mastering chain" that can help glue it all together. This is where EQ, compression, limiting, and a tiny bit of reverb can help.
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