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Indian PM and Hindutva National Narendra Modi in America
- Thread starter OtherWorldly
- Start date
Always fun to see U.S. dogshit politicians welcome unpunished authoritarians. I wish Modi would truly feel even a smidgeon of the pain and oppression he's fostered in the country he purportedly leads.
Tulsi sure does love embracing dictators. Also fuck Modi, I hope he dies a slow and painful death.
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fun fact: modi was on the no fly list to flights to US up to the year 2015 because he was banned for his human rights performances before he became PM
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Modi has become a bigger problem for India than Trump is for America. Search twitter for modi, hardly any dissenting voice, the entire national media calling him a rockstar . The one or two voice that criticize modi are ratio'd
Disgusting. Of course the US welcomes extreme murderous authoritarian ethno nationalism. And if you thought that was limited to republicans, then you should probably ask what the heck Democratic presidential primary candidate Tulsi Gabbard has been doing embracing this guy for a while now.
Let's not forget Israel either, but that's off topic.
Let's not forget Israel either, but that's off topic.
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I'm sure it'll have something to do with the US in his explanation.
I have no idea what types of apparatus were used but Modi's influence on Indian population pertaining assenting voices, pro-modi music, et al is unprecedented. A country of over 1 billion with hindu majority, a religion that whilst still trying to rectify, has had terrible and pernicious effects by way of the caste system- a tool for legal and in times gone by, codified discrimination based on birth, from birth.
I don't know how this whole Hindutva bullshit will pan out in the long run as resources, esp. fresh water grows scarce with poor environment education general apathy leading to poor maintenance of rivers and river basins and oceans.
Hindutva - Much like any religious nationalism, only misery will come of it in due time. I dislike religion in general but I have very special hatred for hinduism.
I don't know how this whole Hindutva bullshit will pan out in the long run as resources, esp. fresh water grows scarce with poor environment education general apathy leading to poor maintenance of rivers and river basins and oceans.
Hindutva - Much like any religious nationalism, only misery will come of it in due time. I dislike religion in general but I have very special hatred for hinduism.
There has been no statistical difference in any kind of violence in India. But most people here won't understand because they don't hear much about India anyway, only forming opinions using opinion pieces from few media outlets.
Comments like "Modi is also ridiculously popular among huge swaths of India it's a huge problem." and "extreme murderous authoritarian ethno nationalism" only comes from people fed the same narrative. How many people here know the history of Kashmir conflict, the proliferation of terrorism by Pakistan with western help which generated the terrorists that killed thousands of Indians, or Sabaramati train masscare followed by Godara riots, for which the administration was cleared of any wrong doing by Supreme Court of India (more independent than US Supreme Court if you read Indian constitution). There are economic blunders by the govt and many other missteps, but again, not like people here have good sources on India anyways.
So what's going on in Kashmir is justified according to you because Pakistan does some shit? Wooooow
You do know BJP won two democratic elections? Yea, everything else is there but it is not like India is a dictatorship or an autocracy. They don't even have the majority numbers in the lower house.
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like America, it tells a lot about the Current voters than the Nation
370 was supposed to go anyway as it was a temporary constitution provision. But obviously you don't know that since you also don't know about the conflict other than what is fed to you by media. Not all regions have same laws and same standards. Do you even know that >90% of the region does not have curfew?
Whether all regions have the same laws or standards is irrelevant to whether or not what's going on is morally justified. Also saying "all the media is biased" is really not a good look.
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It would be remiss the differentiate why you hate a person. A definite moral argument can be made by many people to hate Modi, but not a legal one. Trump is only avoiding n number of issues that would have legal consequences due to being president, but that is digressing from the topic. Not agreeing with the majority does not mean majority is wrong. And unlike Trump, BJP is the most popular party by far in India.
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You do realize India does not provide any access to foreign NGOs there? Plus Amnesty does not really offer a solution to the issue. It's a law and order situation which has manifested over decades, hence curfew was placed and lifted at most places except the sensitive areas. Again, you would not understand because in JK is not a normal place, it has been under insurgency and cross border terrorism since 1989. There is a reason why world leaders are not saying much.
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like Saudi Arabia they are not saying much because of Trade deals
So Modi's human rights abuses are legal in India and thus justified, according to you? That's bullshit. The majority is wrong if they support the oppression of people.
Please the read the article carefully to understand the bias. Modi and BJP have a Hindutva agenda, definitely. But there has been no increase in reported FIRs or religious crimes. Isolated stories on just a small subset on news sources (India has >25 languages officially recognised, yet NYT only takes into account English ones). Plus this just confirms my point that its a moral argument against Modi, not a legal one. He has been a very good administrator and hence got another term.
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Of course it's a moral argument.
care to post an example of an unbiased international article ?
"no rise in religious crimes"
I really cannot make my point any clearer if you think Saudi Arabia and India are same.
Human rights abuses in Kashmir? Sure. Happening since a long while on both sides. Its not a normal place. No govt has done any different and it won't change for many years till AFSPA is removed, which won't be removed till Indo-Pak issues are solved. This is a geopolitical issue that has multiple actors with issues, with cross border terrorism the consensus one for global regime. Simplistic solutions do not work in such an environment.
I think it's pretty clear if he had any, he would've done so already.
It's definitely ironic considering his initial argument about sourcing, lol.
Hopefully he will provide something, but if he doesn't, it's really just bad faith arguing, and probably no need to continuing engaging.
Ah, "both sides". No one is blaming Modi for the human rights abuses he's not responsible for, just the ones he is responsible for...which you seem to admit he is responsible for them. Hence the criticism.
This situation being a complex geo-political problem does not justify oppression of people.
As somebody who hadn't followed Indian politics too closely, it was super disheartening to learn that Modi and his backers are more or less the MAGA hats of the subcontinent. Aggressive ethno-religious nationalism, anti-intellectualism, savvy media manipulation, and covering for corporate looting of the public sector.
Lol Modi Bhakts like you are just as delusional and vapid like Trump supporters. No increase in religious crimes? Fuck outta here.
Also just as predicted, instantly fall back to English news vs Local news nonsense Modi supporters rely on. Fake news!!
It's a very linear firing squad actually. I know I'm not on the side of fascists
No, because I am obviously operating on more information than most people on this forum.
One is an exhaustive database of FIRs in India, another is an indicative collection that by its own definition in nowhere near complete. There is hardly any international media that offers proper coverage to most Asian countries, including China and Japan. By the lofty standards of few here Japan would be the most racist country ever because they are so homogenous, but that is their culture. And that majority Chinese actually like their one party system which obviously is not a democracy. Each one has its flaws, but judging other people and cases based on your moral compass does not work.
Please read the entire history of Kashmir issue. From the original UN resolution, 2 wars of 1949, 1964, then 1971, 1989 Soviet loss in Afg leading to Mujahideen focus on India, 1999 Kargil, 2001 Indian Parliament attack, 2008 mumbai attacks and the history of 370. I also suggest reading Sino-Pakistan Agreement of 1963. Its reductive analysis to saying anything about this issue without having proper background about it.
There is plenty of good coverage of Japan in English language media sources, as well as China (though China attempts to have state control over media so obviously thats more difficult). Japan DOES have societal problems with racism, not because it is a homogeneous culture but because...Japanese culture and society are sometimes racist. See the treatment of the Ainu, Korean and Chinese immigrants, Okinawans even, the fact that Japan will still air blackface on national TV, etc. But that's completely unrelated to the topic at hand.
Again, the situation being complex does not justify oppression. There is no justification for oppression. You can say "the history of this region is fraught with conflict" a thousand times over and it still wouldnt justify oppression.
Obviously my point in not cutting across and I am already a fascist. But labels don't work in a complex problem. Not understanding an issue (in this case an world's largest democracy's politics) and making reductive agruments about it based on incomplete information is what I would expect obviously in any forum. This forum is majority US or EU people, so obviously you are not understanding how any suggestions from those groups are interpreted in other socities.
There is another issue that I did not hear that I thought I would. NRC in Assam. The initial knee jerk reaction in western media was hillarious. Point being it was a Supreme Court appointed commitee that actually excluded more Hindus than Muslims (much to the chagrin of BJP obviously). But while NRC was criticized, most western media forgot to report facts when NRC was released. My entire point is your sources are incomplete about Asian countries.
There is another issue that I did not hear that I thought I would. NRC in Assam. The initial knee jerk reaction in western media was hillarious. Point being it was a Supreme Court appointed commitee that actually excluded more Hindus than Muslims (much to the chagrin of BJP obviously). But while NRC was criticized, most western media forgot to report facts when NRC was released. My entire point is your sources are incomplete about Asian countries.
User Banned (Permanent): Rationalizing Violence and Discrimination and Excusing Blackface Over a Series of Posts; Account in Junior Phase
Why would Japanese worry about blackface when African population is non existent there? It is a culturally inappropriate thing in US and other countries. That does not mean that morality scale should or will be followed by everyone. Making an argument that everyone should adhere to your moral compass is a form of oppressive practice itself as followed by every victor in history.
USA is a country of immigrants, not every country is. Obviously you are free to agree or disagree on that, but it will help you understand opinions of people that don't live in the same place.
Japan will die without immigration and hence Abe is working on that, but nobody else can tell them about it.
Meanwhile, a cursory glance over this topic has me labelled a fascist, bad faith actor, Modi bhakt et al while I am only suggesting that people don't about this issue enough, not having proper facts, and should know more to understand global politics using local news sources. Btw, for India, I suggest ToI, NDTV, Economic Times, India Today for local news. For China, CCTV is a must to gain perspective about official media. China is a special case with higher restriction than most.
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There are still black people that live in Japan. They should care about blackface because racism is wrong and it perpetuates harmful stereotypes about black people in their own culture.
Japanese culture is really insular, and xenophobic in general, i doubt criticism about blackface will be listened to in Japan, when it comes to ignorance like that, exposure, and gentle explanations would probably do better in expanding tolerance. but thats my opinion.
Liar.
From the very source you mentioned:
Also in the page you linked:
So why on earth do you link to an NCRB pdf as a source?
This sure aged well.
They don't. Because your moral compass and what you and your culture interprets as blackface does not remotely correspond to what it may mean in other regions. A foreigner's view on Japan is worth nothing, just like its for most other countries. If people can only understand that not all people subscribe to the same set of rules that you develop due to your culture and society.
Most western world see a turned Swastika and go Nazi, while it is a sacred Hindu symbol since millennia.
I can only suggest you to visit multiple countries in person or read world history in depth. You would see how things can be viewed much differently based on region. Every group of people have the right to live as they wish, and even this has limitations in a real case.
I bet all people here also don't know about Uniform Civil Code that BJP wants to introduce. Its the most "left" of policies that makes all religions treated the same way, but yet an argument can be made that it should not happen.
Now what about this case of textbook bigotry? Does every other commenter here agree with this just because this comment also had some views in support of your general argument?
Anyway this topic won't go beyond 1-2 pages max because nobody would actually read much about the topic.
What can I say. I cannot compensate for your lack of understanding of the topic.
Section 153A. The article presents factually wrong info about IPC.
Also obviously this was not quoted by you - "The project does not aspire to be an exhaustive record of hate violence in India. "
I am indeed operating on more info about the topic, you were saying?