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Toriko

Member
Dec 29, 2017
7,683
It's fine, don't sweat it. Just seeing every single thread related to Pakistan, makes me feel uneasy being on the internet knowing I'm from a country literally everyone hates, and the people there, most of which are totally normal people and want nothing more than peace between the two countries. I have tons of Indian friends that want nothing more than for both countries to be normal fkin neighbors but I don't see that ever happening.

No one hates Pakistani people. We are all the same. We come from the same region. It is the Pakistani Government and terror camps that somehow keep getting nurtured thanks to their ineptitude that ppl hate.

I would hope most people in Pakistan relalize that the army and Govenrmrnt nurturing these criminals has done a lot of harm to not just others but to itself. Hopefully there is public pressure someday to punish guys like Hafeez Sayeed.
 

Toriko

Member
Dec 29, 2017
7,683
This is the first time I seen that India general population wants revenge badly. From celebrities and media, the talk of violence sure was something. To me it sure brings to mind that the leaders of nation sure as hell dictate the mood of the population. I'm thinking Make America Great with Trump which brought out sentiments.in people I didn't expect. Seems same has happened in India.

It happened during 26 /11 as well. It has nothing to do with leaders. It is natural to get angry after getting bombed again and again and again. It is no different than what happened after 9 / 11. People will cool down eventually.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,622
The World
You cant label people fighting in an occupied land against an army that has over the years committed atrocities as terrorists. In this case, the Indian army is the terrorist organization not the local people fighting them

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...s-kashmir-accused-human-rights-abuses-coverup

So then what were the Mumbai 26/11 attacks? Just say you are fine with the terrorism perpetrated by Pakistan because it is obvious that you are.
 

Dante316

Member
Oct 25, 2017
947
It happened during 26 /11 as well. It has nothing to do with leaders. It is natural to get angry after getting bombed again and again and again
It definitely feels different just from scouring social media. Alot of Hindu people saying they are minority in their own country. They should remove Pakistan from the map, etc.
 
Nov 1, 2017
403
Accordion to US Department of Defense, Balakot was a known JEM operated terror camp

Detainee has admitted to volunteering to fight Jihad against the US and its allies, remaining after the events of September 11th to continue to fight, and receiving training from the JEM. Detainee received training in Balakot, PK, a location known to house a training camp that offers both basic and advanced terrorist training on explosives and artillery. Detainee is a probable member of the JEM and as such, if released would likely gravitate back to that Islamic extremist group. The JEM espouses Jihad against the US and is directly supported by Al-Qaida.

https://wikileaks.org/gitmo/pdf/pk/us9pk-000301dp.pdf

But Pakistani's will sill say, their country does not harbor terrorists. SMH
 

Toriko

Member
Dec 29, 2017
7,683
It definitely feels different just from scouring social media. Alot of Hindu people saying they are minority in their own country. They should remove Pakistan from the map, etc.

Lot of Muslims in India are saying the same thing about Pakistan too. All are united in their anger. I mean it is natural. Everyone will cool down eventually until the next unfortunate attack. It is just a never ending vicious cycle. A terrible nightmare one cannot wake up from.
 

Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,835
That's the problem all around. Everyone feels wronged and that causes them to retaliate. It's a perfect example of multiple wrongs not making a right.

It's especially worrying now that Pakistan is cozying up with Saudi Arabia. I wouldn't be surprised if we see an increase in propaganda and terrorism.
 

malik180

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
376
So then what were the Mumbai 26/11 attacks? Just say you are fine with the terrorism perpetrated by Pakistan because it is obvious that you are.
I am not fine with anything both countries are doing. All they are doing is spreading hatred and hurting their economy by beefing their militaries. Just that no one is a saint in this. Everyone has blood on their hands. Just that what's happening in Kashmir is open state-sponsored terrorism by a country's military itself. No use of proxies. Straight up use of official forces.

Both countries having nukes is a blessing really. Acts as a deterrent to any serious escalation of war
 

xChildofhatex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,223
You cant label people fighting in an occupied land against an army that has over the years committed atrocities as terrorists. In this case, the Indian army is the terrorist organization not the local people fighting them

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...s-kashmir-accused-human-rights-abuses-coverup
You are either all sorts of ignorant or a supporter of terrorist activities if you believe this trash.
Jammu and Kashmir is as much an "occupied land" as Texas is for USA. It was a kingdom whose king signed it off to India. Pakistan Govt. has zero claim over it despite managing to grab pieces of it with the help of the Chinese Govt. The only reason that there's any dispute in the region is because India's first PM was a stupid piece of shit who unconditionally accepted all the terms of accession and included the idiotic Section 370 into the Constitution which has essentially held J&K's development back thus encouraging extremist rats to entice young people without many opportunities to join this "War for Independence" of Kashmir.
 

malik180

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
376
You are either all sorts of ignorant or a supporter of terrorist activities if you believe this trash.
Jammu and Kashmir is as much an "occupied land" as Texas is for USA. It was a kingdom whose king signed it off to India. Pakistan Govt. has zero claim over it despite managing to grab pieces of it with the help of the Chinese Govt. The only reason that there's any dispute in the region is because India's first PM was a stupid piece of shit who unconditionally accepted all the terms of accession and included the idiotic Section 370 into the Constitution which has essentially held J&K's development back thus encouraging extremist rats to entice young people without many opportunities to join this "War for Independence" of Kashmir.
likewise https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24159594
India has no rightful claim over Hyderabad

Hyderabad 1948: India's hidden massacre

In confidential notes attached to the Sunderlal report, its authors detailed the gruesome nature of the Hindu revenge: "In many places we were shown wells still full of corpses that were rotting. In one such we counted 11 bodies, which included that of a woman with a small child sticking to her breast. "

And it went on: "We saw remnants of corpses lying in ditches. At several places the bodies had been burnt and we would see the charred bones and skulls still lying there."

The Sunderlal report estimated that between 27,000 to 40,000 people lost their lives.

No official explanation was given for Nehru's decision not to publish the contents of the Sunderlal report, though it is likely that, in the powder-keg years that followed independence, news of what happened might have sparked more Muslim reprisals against Hindus.

It is also unclear why, all these decades later, there is still no reference to what happened in the nation's schoolbooks. Even today few Indians have any idea what happened.

The Sunderlal report, although unknown to many, is now open for viewing at the Nehru Memorial Museum and Library in New Delhi.

The current Prime minister of India is a mass murderer of thousands of Muslims while he was the minister of the state.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/aug/18/india.uk

In the inferno that followed more than 2,000 Muslims were killed, as Hindu mobs went on a spree of raping, burning and murdering. The dead included three Britons visiting India on holiday.

Instead of trying to prevent the slaughter, Mr Modi - a member of India's right-wing Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata party (BJP) - instructed his administration to do nothing.

These are all international sources just so that they cant be labeled as pro Pakistan outlets spreading anti India agenda

Just makes me realize even more MGS2 as a masterpiece. Control of information.
 
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xChildofhatex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,223
likewise https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24159594
India has no rightful claim over Hyderabad

Hyderabad 1948: India's hidden massacre



The current Prime minister of India is a mass murderer of thousands of Muslims while he was the minister of the state.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/aug/18/india.uk



These are all international sources just so that they cant be labeled as pro Pakistan outlets spreading anti India agenda
Hey look Whataboutism. When lacking facts or unable to come up with a logical argument, just drop a couple of "What About" in there.
India's annexation of Hyderabad was pretty brutal, Modi is a right wing nut and Pakistani Govt is still an inept exporter and enabler of Terrorism. All of these statements can be true at the same time because their validity isn't dependent on each other. Also, FYI, the "Hyderabad" region is a pretty peaceful and economically developed area of India which has no bearing on our current discussion. Try harder next time.
 

malik180

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
376
Hey look Whataboutism. When lacking facts or unable to come up with a logical argument, just drop a couple of "What About" in there.
India's annexation of Hyderabad was pretty brutal, Modi is a right wing nut and Pakistani Govt is still an inept exporter and enabler of Terrorism. All of these statements can be true at the same time because their validity isn't dependent on each other. Also, FYI, the "Hyderabad" region is a pretty peaceful and economically developed area of India which has no bearing on our current discussion. Try harder next time.
Does that wipe away all the atrocities committed in the past just because right now Hyderabad is economically secure? Tell that to people that were murdered in cold blood under the supervision of the Indian army.

Just allow Kashmiri people to decide their own fate then. Dont need 150,000 regular army soldiers deployed over there if they are so willing to be a part of India
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,622
The World
I am not fine with anything both countries are doing. All they are doing is spreading hatred and hurting their economy by beefing their militaries. Just that no one is a saint in this. Everyone has blood on their hands. Just that what's happening in Kashmir is open state-sponsored terrorism by a country's military itself. No use of proxies. Straight up use of official forces.

Both countries having nukes is a blessing really. Acts as a deterrent to any serious escalation of war

No, there is no equivalence between Pakistan's naked sponsorship, support of terrorism and whatever India has done till now. Like, you literally have proof of 26/11 terrorists being given orders from Pakistan. You literally have proof of JeM magizines in Punjab province calling for youths to join jihad.
 
Oct 30, 2017
762
Edit: just saw the mod warning. Is this considered on-topic. Also accidentally double posted 😕

Back in the late 90s when i was deployed to the gulf, I believe this got really bad. The hate between these two countries is deep, like hundreds of years deep.

Can't be hundreds of years deep when these countries are not even a 100 years old. Thank the British for fucking things up again.
 

malik180

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
376
No, there is no equivalence between Pakistan's naked sponsorship, support of terrorism and whatever India has done till now. Like, you literally have proof of 26/11 terrorists being given orders from Pakistan. You literally have proof of JeM magizines in Punjab province calling for youths to join jihad.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...mes-India-for-Lahore-cricket-terror-plot.html
Uhh no they recklessly bombed several countries after that. They did so well
And now back to holding peace talks with Taliban after 20 years
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47351369

All this war for what?

The thread title should be ambiguous though. Nothing is for certain what happened
 

Decarb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,641
Uhh no they recklessly bombed several countries after that. They did so well

Well there hasn't been another major attack on US soil after that, is there? The terrorist bombings and killing of innocents used to be an annual affair in India but its not anymore. Hopefully the bombing of the rat's nest will at least deter them from acting out again for few more years.
 

xChildofhatex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,223
Does that wipe away all the atrocities committed in the past just because right now Hyderabad is economically secure? Tell that to people that were murdered in cold blood under the supervision of the Indian army.

Just allow Kashmiri people to decide their own fate then. Dont need 150,000 regular army soldiers deployed over there if they are so willing to be a part of India
This has worked out great during Brexit, can't see anything going wrong here. I'm also interested in knowing your stance on the Balochistan nationalists who have regularly seeked independence from Pakistan. Should Pakistan hold a referendum in Balochistan too, just like you're suggesting India should do for J&K?
Also, like I said, we're not discussing Hyderabad. If you don't have anything to contribute don't vomit Whataboutisms all over the place.
Lmao. The main source is a report from ISI. Yes, very credible. Do you keep these bookmarked to support your pro-ISI and pro-Terrorism stance?
You might want to read them all, coz here's a quote:
The accusation contradicts earlier statements by President Asif Ali Zardari in which he blamed Islamic militants based along the border with Afghanistan.
So inept they can't even get their stories straight.
 
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malik180

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
376
This has worked out great during Brexit, can't see anything going wrong here. I'm also interested in knowing your stance on the Balochistan nationalists who have regularly seeked independence from Pakistan. Should Pakistan hold a referendum in Balochistan too, just like you're suggesting India should do for J&K?
Also, like I said, we're not discussing Hyderabad. If you don't have anything to contribute don't vomit Whataboutisms all over the place.
So your not in favor of people that are oppressed vote for their stance just because of Brexit say what ? what has Brexit got to do with Kashmiri people.

The Kashmir- India situation is the same as Palestine - Israel. The world watches the show go on and gives a free pass for oppression to continue
 

JayBee

Alt-account
Banned
Dec 6, 2018
1,332
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...mes-India-for-Lahore-cricket-terror-plot.html

And now back to holding peace talks with Taliban after 20 years
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47351369

All this war for what?

The thread title should be ambiguous though. Nothing is for certain what happened
You're actually doubling down. Just saying the US is a terrible example of how you handle these things. Hopefully india does better
Well there hasn't been another major attack on US soil after that, is there? The terrorist bombings and killing of innocents used to be an annual affair in India but its not anymore. Hopefully the bombing of the rat's nest will at least deter them from acting out again for few more years.
I don't necesarily agree that the world has become safer because of US recklessness but either way it isn't strange recklessly bombing/destroying several countries is going to help in some way.
 
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Mar Tuuk

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,566
Now that India's done this, Imran Khan has to do something otherwise he'll look weak considering he said India shouldn't escalate this earlier but to work together on the situation. Since Pulwama a lot of Indian media has been so focused on revenge and war hawkish. I'm not saying India shouldn't have done this in their defense but it should've been thought out more of repercussions and I feel Modi really wants to cement his place as India's savior in modern history from Gujarat. No better way to do that than have the next Kargil.
 

xChildofhatex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,223
User Warned: Ignoring Modpost
So your not in favor of people that are oppressed vote for their stance just because of Brexit say what ? what has Brexit got to do with Kashmiri people.
Sure. What about Balochistan? Do you support a referendum for that region too? Or are those people not oppressed enough to warrant one?
Edit - Are you for or against the descendents of Kashmiri Pandits from voting on this referendum?
Do you understand how a representative democracy even works? Do you even know about J&K's own state Constitution and the amount of autonomy it grants J&K. It's basically a separate entity from India which has done nothing but hold back its development. An independent Kashmir would collapse into nothing before the end of the week. You clearly have no grasp of the situation and are just stanning for Pakistan Govt. propaganda. Kind of a shame, really, since I didn't expect people like you on this board.

Now that India's done this, Imran Khan has to do something otherwise he'll look weak considering he said India shouldn't escalate this earlier but to work together on the situation. Since Pulwama a lot of Indian media has been so focused on revenge and war hawkish. I'm not saying India shouldn't have done this in their defense but it should've been thought out more of repercussions and I feel Modi really wants to cement his place as India's savior in modern history from Gujarat. No better way to do that than have the next Kargil.
Imran Khan is a puppet. He'll do exactly what his puppet masters, aka, Pakistan Army make him do.
 
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Sabretooth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,052
India
Scroll.in has a round-up of commentators believing that the situation will likely not escalate further.

Internationally, China and the UK are the only ones to have commented on the attack. China has asked both countries to "exercise restraint", while the UK has asked the two countries to find "diplomatic solutions" to the situation.

Imran Khan, meanwhile has "directed the armed forces and the people of Pakistan to remain prepared for all eventualities".
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,626
How the world allowed India and Pakistan to get nukes is the biggest wtf question of the XX century
The world is themselves to be blamed for that, when you ask everyone to not make nuclear weapons while still keeping and making your own it's lopsided, hypocritical and divides the world into two factions where one has nuclear weapons and other doesn't.

If they really wanted India to sign the non prolifirstion treaty then the original nuclear powers themselves should have followed up on the treaty they created by dismantling their weapons and not making any new ones. And had India not developed them then Pakistan probably would not have either. You can't tell everyone X is bad for you and the world then expect the world to follow while you keep doing it yourself.
 
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Jan 27, 2019
16,073
Fuck off
This is one of the scariest situations in the world even ahead of North Korea, because both sides have nukes and the hostility between them goes back a very long time. If it comes to outright war, all bets are off.
 

DarkLordMalik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,626
Just to comment on the topic, there has been zero evidence given that they killed alleged 'militants'

BBC source from the place which has been claimed to hit by the Indian media (100 KG bombs, 200-300 Casualties) simply says that they heard blasts and one person was wounded.

https://twitter.com/BBCUrdu/status/1100297657396932608

Indians are trying to paint it as a victory, while it appears as a failure of both sides. Pakistan shouldn't have let Indians invade that far from LoC and if India wanted to achieve some target, they failed miserably.

Just to give an example of the Indian media desperately trying to twist facts. This second fake video was being circulated as from BBC Urdu and it was quickly shut down by them.

https://twitter.com/AliyaNazki/status/1100333138696376321

An Indian Journalist claiming the exact opposite of the video by saying the local was talking about many casualties when he just said one person was wounded.

https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/status/1100306627624923136

TL;DR Indian Air Force violated LoC and were on a mission but perhaps had to abort or revert and go back. They dropped payload (pics available in OP) presumably in a hurry to head back. Pakistan should have shot them down for violating their LoC but they didn't. Whether it was a failure by them or a cool-headed response, no one knows.
 

AshenOne

Member
Feb 21, 2018
6,089
Pakistan
Well ok now i hope india doesn't get all shocked and surprised when Pakistan retaliates and something similar happens in some Indian region because there will be a response. If we Pakistanis keep letting this sort of joke happening then other countries will try to pull similar shit. I've had enough of listening to the Indian Media Gibberish.
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,972
Scotland
I swear to god there are sizeable minorities in both countries that would happily nuke eachother into oblivion, only Palestine and Israel is more fucked up atleast they don't both(I know Israel does) have nukes.
 

Sabretooth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,052
India
Thought it was surprising that Australia's statement, apart from urging peace and diplomacy, actively called on Pakistan to dismantle terrorist groups:

Pakistan must take urgent and meaningful action against terrorist groups in its territory, including Jaish-e-Mohammed which has claimed responsibility for the 14 February bombing, and Lashkar-e-Taiba.

Pakistan must do everything possible to implement its own proscription of Jaish-e-Mohammed. It can no longer allow extremist groups the legal and physical space to operate from its territory.

These steps would make a substantial contribution to easing tensions and resolving the underlying causes of conflict.

Australia urges both sides to exercise restraint, avoid any action which would endanger peace and security in the region and engage in dialogue to ensure that these issues are resolved peacefully.

On a more general note, so far I've seen statements from China, UK, Australia, and the EU, and none of them have called out India's violation of Pakistani airspace, even as they stress diplomacy and restraint. I don't really know what to make of that. It comes across awfully like those powers want to give India a pass on this, or are siding with India's stance as in the case of Australia.
 
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Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,626
I swear to god there are sizeable minorities in both countries that would happily nuke eachother into oblivion, only Palestine and Israel is more fucked up atleast they don't both(I know Israel does) have nukes.
I'm an Indian and I've been heavily involved in the Palestine-Israel debate and in my experience this is even more fucked up than that actually because both are great powers.
 

DarkLordMalik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,626
Thought it was surprising that Australia's statement, apart from urging peace and diplomacy, actively called on Pakistan to dismantle terrorist groups:



On a more general note, so far I've seen statements from China, UK, Australia, and the EU, and none of them have called out India's violation of Pakistani airspace, even as they stress diplomacy and restraint. I don't really know what to make of that. It comes across awfully like those powers want to give India a pass on this, or are siding with India's stance as in the case of Australia.
Easy to do this if you peddle the narrative that it was on terrorist camps.

In reality, the situation here is completely opposite and even us Pakistanis are confused over Indian claims. If such an attack happened, there are no casualties or even signs of bombings aside from what has been shared so far, which doesn't fit the Indian narrative.
 

SlothmanAllen

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,834
Hopefully we will get images from someone like PlanetLabs soon. I think they take pictures of the entire planet every day don't they?
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Hoping Pakistan to show restraint tbh.
 

Sabretooth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,052
India
Easy to do this if you peddle the narrative that it was on terrorist camps.

In reality, the situation here is completely opposite and even us Pakistanis are confused over Indian claims. If such an attack happened, there are no casualties or even signs of bombings aside from what has been shared so far, which doesn't fit the Indian narrative.
It's arguably for the best that both sides have completely different stories.


 

DarkLordMalik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,626
I still don't understand how Pakistan gets away with openly doing nothing or flat out supporting terrorists within its borders.
You should read more on the Pulwana Attack that led to this current tension between India and Pakistan.

Also, I don't want to go off-topic since there is a mod warning but this is not the time to make such comment in this thread.
 
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