....Yes? Morality is relative as you've just described. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be morality, it would be fact & judgment. Moral absolutism doesn't hold up in the real world and is usually a tool of oppression.
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In response to some of my old posts that have been dug up
- Thread starter B-Dubs
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Looks like I got called out in one of the threads too, and while some of posts are taken out of context and I could say it was a different time, two things that were shared were really embarrassing.
First, I can't believe I was ever one of those people that made it a point to point out the difference between pedophilia and ephebophilia since when I see that kind of post these days I cringe so hard. I spent a lot of energy back then trying to make the case for treating pedophiles instead of putting the attention to victims that they deserve. Ironically I think it was a GAF mod who went too far with that kind of argument that showed me how harmful that focus was.
The second thing was a post that comes off as defending a female teacher who took advantage of a male student. I don't even remember the context there but I'm ashamed that I gave any kind of cover for the perpetrator of abuse.
I'm sure my words back then were harmful to people who read them and if I could go back and smack some sense into myself I would. I apologize to anyone who was affected by my actions.
I'm not even a mod anymore, so maybe I don't even have to address these things, but I felt it important to do so.
First, I can't believe I was ever one of those people that made it a point to point out the difference between pedophilia and ephebophilia since when I see that kind of post these days I cringe so hard. I spent a lot of energy back then trying to make the case for treating pedophiles instead of putting the attention to victims that they deserve. Ironically I think it was a GAF mod who went too far with that kind of argument that showed me how harmful that focus was.
The second thing was a post that comes off as defending a female teacher who took advantage of a male student. I don't even remember the context there but I'm ashamed that I gave any kind of cover for the perpetrator of abuse.
I'm sure my words back then were harmful to people who read them and if I could go back and smack some sense into myself I would. I apologize to anyone who was affected by my actions.
I'm not even a mod anymore, so maybe I don't even have to address these things, but I felt it important to do so.
how did i know i would come in here and see "hey man it's ok if you said nigga long time ago. it was a long time ago" lmao. i would also wager 99% of the people saying said things aren't even black. this site man lol
For the record, we just removed another post from a user whose account was compromised by the same individual who has been doing this.
You deleted one of the few posts criticising B-Dubs? You understand how bad that looks, right?
But similarly, if anyone here posted those comments a decade ago and then had them dug up, ERA would not retroactively ban that person. That's not how it works.
Also, none of those comments are permaban worthy lol, except for a couple that used language that was (unfortunately) very acceptable on the mainstream internet in 2013.
Well, yeah. They would have been labelled a transphobe and racist because what he said was transphobic and racist. What he said was completely unacceptable, and I hope no one would argue otherwise. The issue is more whether or not you think that B-dubs is still acting that way today, and the way that everything is pulled from GAF, and not anything remotely current leads me to believe that he's not. But, I also don't know the guy at all beyond the occasional post here
All signs point to it being the same malicious troll who compromised their account. Not a regular user. Their account has had their password reset.
why doesnt it work like that? time doesnt remove the fact you said some trash shit
Trolls weaponizing cancel culture was inevitable.
Because we are judged on what we post to this forum, not content from off site?
Because we are judged on what we post to this forum, not content from off site?
Why would you be banned here for something you said 10 years ago on another site? Rules enforcement has never worked like that.
You're already banned, but I don't even know who you are. Keep thinking of me though, I guess.
ah ok. so if someone made nazi posts off site, it's all good as long as they dont post it on era. got it.
because why would you want someone who said that kind of shit participating on your website?
What about the other mods?
What was said, even considering context, would get someone banned here.
I'm onboard with the "people change over the years and become better people" idea, but it's important that the community and moderators feel like this person, this leader, is at that point where they can lead others.
What happens if that's not the case?
I mean, unless yo ucan find it in the rules that states otherwise, that is my understanding of the rules.
The post wasn't being critical so much as irrational -- clearly trolling. I was about to reply to it saying as much. People can't nor shouldn't be expected to preemptively air everything they've ever said that could be construed poorly.
Time gives most people (who don't peak as an internet troll maliciously harassing a community) the chance to grow up and evolve their views and values.
And this isn't the first time this forum has fallen for it, either.
I'm wondering if there's a more elegant want to go about this; something that doesn't threaten the appearance of transparency.
For example, if you were to reset the user password, then edit a note into the post that the post may have been a compromised user, then leave it to the user to edit their post after resetting the password if they want to comment on the subject.
Too bad Royolan got demodded for comments he made years ago, how is that different from what's happening here? Different standards for different people. I read some of the posts made and were posted in that Imgur album. Any celebrity/normal person would be crucified for the same comments. There is a double standard in this thread with all the hand waving.
Edit: not necessarily demodded, but ganged on and essentially had to step down.
What you asking for, era mods to retroactively enforce their rules on other sites?
People can change 10 years from now. I think b dubs post shows he's changed.
if the rules can be interpreted as "you can be a racist/xenophobe/any type of terrible person *as long as* you do it off site" those are terrible rules
im just laughing at the fact that somebody can be shown to be a piece of shit and it's fine because they didnt post it somewhere specifically
I'd note there's a couple blatant differences: his comments weren't exactly that old and were directly relevant to an ongoing controversy (ERA staff not listening to concerns of trans users), and he wasn't demodded, he willingly stepped down.
I can assure you that no one has expressed a lack of faith or discomfort with him. He's always taken the concerns of minorities seriously, has shown compassion and kindness to us, and has pushed to have our voices heard. I quoted you because I felt comfortable wading into the thread. I'm not going to ask or expect for anyone else to do that, though.
mountain out of a mole hill. Who hasn't said something dumb once in a given 10 years span of time.
I checked some of the dates of the posts. 2016, 2017. It was not all that long ago. Yes, the screenshots range over the past decade. I also edited my post before you quoted it.
You can't retroactively punish someone for someone they said years ago on an entirely different website. That is stupid.if the rules can be interpreted as "you can be a racist/xenophobe/any type of terrible person *as long as* you do it off site" those are terrible rules
im just laughing at the fact that somebody can be shown to be a piece of shit and it's fine because they didnt post it somewhere specifically
It's not so much the where as the when in this instance. If someone is posting vile shit concurrently then by all means. But if it was 5+ years ago. People grow a lot in 5 years and can change. And if they don't change the truth will come out eventually anyway.if the rules can be interpreted as "you can be a racist/xenophobe/any type of terrible person *as long as* you do it off site" those are terrible rules
im just laughing at the fact that somebody can be shown to be a piece of shit and it's fine because they didnt post it somewhere specifically
Put it this way: I'm a transgender woman, and I trust and respect the person that B-Dubs is today. If I didn't, I wouldn't have accepted the mod captain position. I can't say I knew the person B-Dubs might have been in these images, but in the time I've been a staffer I've been treated with nothing but kindness and respect by him. He's looked out for me during the hardest moments I've had as a staffer, and I've seen him do the same for the other minorities on staff.
Fact is there is no real rhyme or reason to why some people seem to be able to escape any lasting effects of saying awful things and others are unable.
Celebrities get shredded on here all the time and it isn't always for something they said last week.
When we hold our community to a standard where we are perfect at all times with what we post, something like this was inevitable.
We all have a trail a mile long on the internet, for better or worse. We've all said things we look back on and regret. Yet it seems likely that when things like this are discovered we all gather round and produce the same types of comments regarding that person almost regardless of context.
Ask yourself this. If some celebrity said something really awful in the early to mid 2010s, would it be okay to brush it off as "well that was years ago?".
And at times like this it is critically important that we first and foremost listen to those impacted by these statements, and that is certainly not me. I want those people to chime in with their thoughts and feelings.
edit: I realize I'm coming off as very harsh and don't really mean to. Fact is I don't know B-Dubs. I didn't know him on GAF and I don't really know him now. It's harder for me personally to judge how sincere someone is with things like this when I don't know them. But I do know what our community stands for and what that means to many people and that I want it to continue to stand for those things.
Celebrities get shredded on here all the time and it isn't always for something they said last week.
When we hold our community to a standard where we are perfect at all times with what we post, something like this was inevitable.
We all have a trail a mile long on the internet, for better or worse. We've all said things we look back on and regret. Yet it seems likely that when things like this are discovered we all gather round and produce the same types of comments regarding that person almost regardless of context.
Ask yourself this. If some celebrity said something really awful in the early to mid 2010s, would it be okay to brush it off as "well that was years ago?".
And at times like this it is critically important that we first and foremost listen to those impacted by these statements, and that is certainly not me. I want those people to chime in with their thoughts and feelings.
edit: I realize I'm coming off as very harsh and don't really mean to. Fact is I don't know B-Dubs. I didn't know him on GAF and I don't really know him now. It's harder for me personally to judge how sincere someone is with things like this when I don't know them. But I do know what our community stands for and what that means to many people and that I want it to continue to stand for those things.
your logic = anything is excusable from a user, especially the general manager, as long as it was off site and time has passed. never change era
do you think people stop being bigots and the like over time? lmao that shit is engrained in who you are as a person. just because you stop posting it doesnt mean you don't feel that way. when in the history of humanity has someone ever gone "you know, that group of people i hate arent all that bad"
Like, the idea of losing you account here for something you said 8 years ago on a different website is such a stupid precedent.
It would legitimise DetectiveEra and encourage the trolls to make fake accounts on other sites to try and get prominent users banned here.
I doubt you thought this over more than a few seconds, but this is a profoundly terrible idea.
The way this post is framed makes me think you don't believe anyone can change who they are from several years ago, which is bogus.
Your logic = no matter how much time has passed and how much a person has changed in that time they should be punished for what they said no matter what.
I say again. That is stupid.
I would say that the celebrities who get shredded are ones that continue to dismiss or deny their prior bad acts vs the ones to have admitted them and taken steps to change themselves, make amends to any victims, and move forward while acknowledging their past. I don't think anyone is asking anyone to forget.
For example, there are a lot of members who get warned or banned one time and never violate the rules again.
The Royalan situation was a mess, and I agree with you that was out of hand. A lot of the fault for that lies with me though, and not the random people in here looking past B-dubs past comments. Due to vague comments that I made about current issues that I felt existed on staff, people were digging into posts from GAF to see who had a history of the behavior that I was talking about. Royalan's past comments were also inexcusable, but the issue for a lot of people was the assumption that he was still making these comments today.
I believe people change if they have the desire but like I said, if he hasn't changed then the truth will come out eventually. There has been no evidence of that here. And plenty of proof of the contrary.
except you aren't. nothing you said was harsh. it was just the ugly truth
the fact you jumped to the worst case scenario to defend this is hilarious. if we hold people accountable for shit they said, ppl will make fake posts to frame them. lmao.
it's not bogus. if you were a racist 7 years ago, you are a racist today. that you think people change from those things is laughable
how do you know a person has changed? cause they stopped posting it? when a person shows you who they are, time doesnt change it. people should be held accountable for shit they said. i dont care if it was 500 years ago.
what is the proof that he changed? cause he said so? if hitler was resurrected today and said "you know what, that was wrong, that's not me anymore" you would say "oh that was 60 years ago. he's different" lmao
This is so ridiculously wrong. Nobody is the same person their entire lives. People learn. People grow. People change. Their opinions change. Their outlooks change.
To say that it's impossible for anyone to change when given time and information is absurd.
anyone's 2016 stormfront comments wouldn't be held against them here? I kinda doubt it, even though those comments weren't made on this site
I'm just a member now, but I did work with Dubs for over a year.
In my time working with him, I never knew him as anything other than compassionate and considerate. He's extremely committed to this community and its members. Nobody who didn't believe in the ideals of this forum would dedicate themselves as intensely as he does.
In problem solving he was always one of the last to talk. He's a big listener. He cares a lot about the experiences and perspectives of other people and doesn't make decisions without them. He never acted like he knew better than anyone else, something I wish I could say for myself. It made sense to me when I heard he took over the GM responsibilities here. He's the kind of guy who listens to everyone and cares what everyone has to say. It makes sense that somebody with these qualities would better and grow over time. He's also the kind of person I trust to help run a community like ours.
Our community has always had enemies since its inception. There are entire communities dedicated just to hating us and wanting us to hate each other too. This isn't the first and probably won't be the last time they try to trick us in to eating each other. I believe very firmly that we have to love each other here — we are all we have. That means trusting each other over trolls.
I trust Dubs, easily.
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