In passionate speech to the German parliament, Merkel urges for hard lockdown and defends science

crazillo · Dec 9, 2020

(English subtitles)

The background is that in federalist Germany, chancellor Merkel cannot order a hard lockdown. She has to rely on compliance and cooperation with the 16 states and their prime ministers. She has been calling for harder restrictions for a few weeks, but some have blocked such attempts in the multiple meetings between Merkel and the 16 states. Now Covid infections are not growing but also still not shrinking.

Yes, the government didn't do enough in the summer months IMO, but still... What a leader and what a way to address people. I've not always been her fan but she's one we will miss in a couple of years. Holding speeches is not her strength but you can see this is coming straight from her heart. She'd have acted long ago if she could.

In the same speech, she also defended science and its power ever since enlightenment and said that facts will always be guiding her political actions. But she sees this threatened - for very good reasons. Merkel is a Physicist herself.

About 20,000 new cases a day in Germany ATM.

Xando · Dec 9, 2020

She and the states fucked up in november which caused this situation now people are dying and they start to panic

Klyka · Dec 9, 2020

One of my favorite parts of her speech was her talking about the schools and trying to find ways to educate the kids outside of schools but then saying "but I personally don't know what to do, this isn't my expertise and I don't want to try and tell people what to do".
Like, that was her saying she isn't some allknowing perfect leader but instead making room for actual education specialists.
I appreciate that A LOT.

Opposable · Dec 9, 2020

Last time I read about it, Germany was one of the few western countries handling this very well.

crazillo · Dec 9, 2020

Xando said:
She and the states fucked up in november which caused this situation now people are dying and they start to panic

Merkel wanted a much harder lockdown. She can't order it, as I stated. For the summer months, I also think they'd have had the time to set up clear regulations. At how many infections will we have what measures? This I blame her for, too. But for November and December, I'm incredibly mad at some of our state prime ministers who have been blocking and circumventing anything they could because they were hoping that the soft measures would work out somehow.

Ravio-li · Dec 9, 2020

Klyka said:
One of my favorite parts of her speech was her talking about the schools and trying to find ways to educate the kids outside of schools but then saying "but I personally don't know what to do, this isn't my expertise and I don't want to try and tell people what to do". Like, that was her saying she isn't some allknowing perfect leader but instead making room for actual education specialists.
I appreciate that A LOT.

This.

Opposable said:
Last time I read about it, Germany was one of the few western countries handling this very well.

It's not running particularly well... If there is no hard lockdown right now I expect alot of people having their last Christmas with their parents/grandparents and having to say goodbye over phone sometime in January...

tabris · Dec 9, 2020

Opposable said:
Last time I read about it, Germany was one of the few western countries handling this very well.

It's different in second wave. Only the nations that did true "circuit breakers" like Australia and New Zealand were successful in second wave. Every other nation did half measures or were forced into lockdown but have citizens not following it due to COVID fatigue and did it too late. Most western nations were "OK let's keep businesses open as long as possible" while community transmission was escalating instead of just a hard circuit breaker for 2-4 weeks as soon as it started up again.

Bedlam · Dec 9, 2020

Way too many people over here in Germany give her shit for everything they think is wrong and turned her into a universal scapegoat. But come next year, most citizens including most of these people will start to miss her and her calm, common sense, down to earth style of leadership.

I'm honestly afraid of what comes after, whether we will see a further rise of populism.

Doggg · Dec 9, 2020

Hope people listen.

aevanhoe · Dec 9, 2020

I always respected Chancellor Merkel, and her attpempts to handle this make me respect her even more.

Klyka · Dec 9, 2020

Bedlam said:
Way too many people over here in Germany give her shit for everything they think is wrong and turned her into a universal scapegoat. But come next year, most citizens including most of these people will start to miss her and her calm, common sense, down to earth style of leadership.

I'm honestly afraid of what comes after, whether we will see a further rise of populism.

Nothing good can come after Merkel with our current politicians who can/will take over.
I am very anxious about the political future of our country.

OhSatan · Dec 9, 2020

Merkel made me cry, what a day.

TRV · Dec 9, 2020

Edit: as Dr. Mario points out below, this information is not correct.
---
As a Dutch person, it seems to me that Germany has a much lower threshold for when the country acts. Obviously the numbers aren't good in Germany, but it's been a fair bit worse in The Netherlands for a long time now. Infections are rising again here after a brief decline, meanwhile our prime-minister announced yesterday we're not doing more restrictions. Instead, we're just encouraged to follow the rules and advice. As if things will get magically better without interfering. It's infuriating, considering the lifes at stake. What a stark contrast to Merkel.

Nightfall · Dec 9, 2020

Xando said:
She and the states fucked up in november which caused this situation now people are dying and they start to panic

I blame it more on people not giving a shit to the rules. If I'm going through town and look at all the people standing close to each other, hugging, giving hands, kisses and whatever, that may be nice for them but they clearly have no idea what social distancing means.
People took social distancing serious in April and May. But now they just don't give a fuck anymore and it makes me sad and angry.

harry the spy · Dec 9, 2020

Klyka said:
One of my favorite parts of her speech was her talking about the schools and trying to find ways to educate the kids outside of schools but then saying "but I personally don't know what to do, this isn't my expertise and I don't want to try and tell people what to do".
Like, that was her saying she isn't some allknowing perfect leader but instead making room for actual education specialists.
I appreciate that A LOT.

This, it's incredibly refreshing to hear a politician say something like this, but also kudos to the german for this statement not being completely politically untenable like it would be in so many other countries.

kVH2LpZd · Dec 9, 2020

Klyka said:
One of my favorite parts of her speech was her talking about the schools and trying to find ways to educate the kids outside of schools but then saying "but I personally don't know what to do, this isn't my expertise and I don't want to try and tell people what to do".
Like, that was her saying she isn't some allknowing perfect leader but instead making room for actual education specialists.
I appreciate that A LOT.

Unfortunately the dedicated politicians for this area(Kultusminister) are much worse. They have no clue whatsoever what is happening on the frontline in the schools, decide measures without practical usability every other week and their only objective is to keep the schools open as long as possible no matter the cost.
No help will come from them, every measure actually helping the schools / school-infections will have to go against them.

Klyka · Dec 9, 2020

Firokese said:
Unfortunately the dedicated politicians for this area(Kultusminister) are much worse. They have no clue whatsoever what is happening on the frontline in the schools, decide measures without practical usability every other week and their only objective is to keep the schools open as long as possible no matter the cost.

Yea sadly I am aware of this. I do still appreciate her saying it though. She isn't a specialist, it's not her area of expertise. She acknowledges it.

kVH2LpZd · Dec 9, 2020

Klyka said:
Yea sadly I am aware of this. I do still appreciate her saying it though. She isn't a specialist, it's not her area of expertise. She acknowledges it.

Yes absolutely, it is refreshing to hear that a politician doesn't claim to be an expert for everything.

Fliesen · Dec 9, 2020

Opposable said:
Last time I read about it, Germany was one of the few western countries handling this very well.

Thing is: The 2nd wave hit different countries at different times.

So if you read "country X is doing relatively well" 2 weeks ago, the same country might be preparing a hard lockdown right now.

It was the same thing during the first wave. Every country thought "ouuuuh, country X (Wuhan Province, Italy, Spain, whatever) are doing horribly ... thankfully we haven't been hit that hard". Just 2 weeks later "fuck, we got hit that hard, but look at country Y (Sweden, Germany) they're doing sooo much better, with much softer restrictions..." weeks later, these countries are in an equally dramatic situation.

Bedlam said:
Way too many people over here in Germany give her shit for everything they think is wrong and turned her into a universal scapegoat. But come next year, most citizens including most of these people will start to miss her and her calm, common sense, down to earth style of leadership.

I'm honestly afraid of what comes after, whether we will see a further rise of populism.

Merkel's to blame for so many things that are going wrong, but she's also to thank for so many things that are going right. (not just with regards to COVID)

Spine Crawler · Dec 9, 2020

why did the local prime minister block the hard lockdown merkel wanted in oktober?

AmFreak · Dec 9, 2020

Completely unprepared into the 2nd wave, says some "passionate" words - "what a leader".
Her popularity reminds me of Trump saying he could shoot someone and they would still vote for him (and no that doesn't mean she is Trump or even comparable to him), everything just bounces off her.

Spine Crawler · Dec 9, 2020

AmFreak said:
Completely unprepared into the 2nd wave, says some "passionate" words - "what a leader".
Her popularity reminds me of Trump saying he could shoot someone and they would still vote for him (and no that doesn't mean she is Trump or even comparable to him), everything just bounces off her.

Uh, wasnt Merkel for a hard lockdown?

Bedlam · Dec 9, 2020

AmFreak said:
Completely unprepared into the 2nd wave, says some "passionate" words - "what a leader".
Her popularity reminds me of Trump saying he could shoot someone and they would still vote for him (and no that doesn't mean she is Trump or even comparable to him), everything just bounces off her.

Um what kind of bs am I reading here?!

smh

Pokémon · Dec 9, 2020

Bedlam said:
Way too many people over here in Germany give her shit for everything they think is wrong and turned her into a universal scapegoat. But come next year, most citizens including most of these people will start to miss her and her calm, common sense, down to earth style of leadership.

I'm honestly afraid of what comes after, whether we will see a further rise of populism.

That's exactly how I feel as well. I will miss Merkel when she's gone.

Dr. Mario · Dec 9, 2020

TRV said:
As a Dutch person, it seems to me that Germany has a much lower threshold for when the country acts. Obviously the numbers aren't good in Germany, but it's been a fair bit worse in The Netherlands for a long time now. Infections are rising again here after a brief decline, meanwhile our prime-minister announced yesterday we're not doing more restrictions. Instead, we're just encouraged to follow the rules and advice. As if things will get magically better without interfering. It's infuriating, considering the lifes at stake. What a stark contrast to Merkel.

It isn't, Germany has about 2x as many deaths per capita now. We've been hovering around 60 deaths per day and they have been around 600 deaths per day for the past few days, with around 5x the number of inhabitants. They did a lot better during the first wave.

Fiddler · Dec 9, 2020

The federal gouverment is advocating for stricter rules for months now but it has actually no say on this matter, the states do and how the rules get executed varies from community to community.
No unified rules and too many people behaving reckless will lead to a lot of deaths come january.

EloKa · Dec 9, 2020

AmFreak said:
Completely unprepared into the 2nd wave, says some "passionate" words - "what a leader".
Her popularity reminds me of Trump saying he could shoot someone and they would still vote for him (and no that doesn't mean she is Trump or even comparable to him), everything just bounces off her.

wat.gif

GiantEnemyCrab · Dec 9, 2020

I'm really critical of most of her policies in the past but in this pandemic she seems the most reasonable (dare I say "sane"?) person in the room (of other politicians).

Johnny Blaze · Dec 9, 2020

AmFreak said:
Completely unprepared into the 2nd wave, says some "passionate" words - "what a leader".
Her popularity reminds me of Trump saying he could shoot someone and they would still vote for him (and no that doesn't mean she is Trump or even comparable to him), everything just bounces off her.

Federal states have the final say in lockdown rules which makes sense, not every Bundesland was hit equally hard, but most were reluctant to make the lockdown harder before Winter, even the ones hit most hard.

Noppie · Dec 9, 2020

TRV said:
As a Dutch person, it seems to me that Germany has a much lower threshold for when the country acts. Obviously the numbers aren't good in Germany, but it's been a fair bit worse in The Netherlands for a long time now. Infections are rising again here after a brief decline, meanwhile our prime-minister announced yesterday we're not doing more restrictions. Instead, we're just encouraged to follow the rules and advice. As if things will get magically better without interfering. It's infuriating, considering the lifes at stake. What a stark contrast to Merkel.

Situation are comparable, if not a bit worse in Germany. Also, it's not 'our prime minister', it's our CDC (RIVM) and OMT currently advising the government further action is not yet needed.

Haunted · Dec 9, 2020

The situation is not nearly as bad as in other countries, but you can tell that covid fatigue is setting in and civil obedience is on the decline. As a population, we are not magically immune to the bullshit of the conspiracy theorists or the laziness of the previously privileged.

Merkel is a good chancellor. This was a heartfelt appeal. No need for cynicism or mockery when someone opens up like this. A seasoned politician is still a human being and she has never lost this quality in her years as chancellor. Can't help but be proud of her representing and leading the country.

It'll be tough to replace her adequately, especially looking at the crop we get to choose from next. The way she handled herself during times of crises and particularly this pandemic makes me want to have more people with a firm scientific background in leading positions instead of people from finances or law (most others before her and up now).

Spine Crawler · Dec 9, 2020

Haunted said:
The situation is not nearly as bad as in other countries, but you can tell that covid fatigue is setting in and civil obedience is on the decline. As a population, we are not magically immune to the bullshit of the conspiracy theorists or the laziness of the previously privileged.

Merkel is a good chancellor. This was a heartfelt appeal. No need for cynicism or mockery when someone opens up like this. A seasoned politician is still a human being and she has never lost this quality in her years as chancellor. Can't help but be proud of her representing and leading the country.

It'll be tough to replace her adequately, especially looking at the crop we get to choose from next. The way she handled herself during times of crises and particularly this pandemic makes me want to have more people with a firm scientific background in leading positions instead of people from finances or law (most others before her and up now).

Kanzler Markus Söder

(I hate that guy, although he did well with Corona.)

Xando · Dec 9, 2020

Nightfall said:
I blame it more on people not giving a shit to the rules. If I'm going through town and look at all the people standing close to each other, hugging, giving hands, kisses and whatever, that may be nice for them but they clearly have no idea what social distancing means.
People took social distancing serious in April and May. But now they just don't give a fuck anymore and it makes me sad and angry.

People are idiots. We learned that early in the year which is why this whole self responsibility thing was doomed from the beginning. Force people to behave or they'll never do

Gandie · Dec 9, 2020

They had all summer to find a solution for schools, then they half assed a circuit breaker lockdown using Christmas and New Year's as an incentive, which was a huge mistake. Now we're screwed, 500 people are dying a day and easing restrictions for Christmas would kill so many old people it's abhorrent that it is still even being considered. This isn't on Merkel, mind you, this is on the Kultusministerkonferenz for failing to do their jobs regarding school and the Ministerpräsidenten (head of states) for everything else.

Spine Crawler said:
Kanzler Markus Söder

(I hate that guy, although he did well with Corona.)

Talking loudly and announcing measures a day ahead of everybody else does not mean he did well.

Clessidor · Dec 9, 2020

Bedlam said:
Way too many people over here in Germany give her shit for everything they think is wrong and turned her into a universal scapegoat. But come next year, most citizens including most of these people will start to miss her and her calm, common sense, down to earth style of leadership.

I'm honestly afraid of what comes after, whether we will see a further rise of populism.

She is definitively a good crisis manager. Especially in this one, because she takes the situation as serious as it is. But we shouldn't forget for how long she is leading the goverment in Germany. There is a bunch of stuff not handled well. Nuclear power phase-out to give one example, but I won't go into detail, not to derail the thread. I just want to say a lot of critic is justified.

Spine Crawler · Dec 9, 2020

Gandie said:
They had all summer to find a solution for schools, then they half assed a circuit breaker lockdown using Christmas and New Year's as an incentive, which was a huge mistake. Now we're screwed, 500 people are dying a day and easing restrictions for Christmas would kill so many old people it's abhorrent that it is still even being considered. This isn't on Merkel, mind you, this is on the Kultusministerkonferenz for failing to do their jobs regarding school and the Ministerpräsidenten (head of states) for everything else.

Talking loudly and announcing measures a day ahead of everybody else does not mean he did well.

But buying notebooks for those poor kids is too expensive. Also you have data privacy to consider.

Spine Crawler · Dec 9, 2020

Gandie said:
They had all summer to find a solution for schools, then they half assed a circuit breaker lockdown using Christmas and New Year's as an incentive, which was a huge mistake. Now we're screwed, 500 people are dying a day and easing restrictions for Christmas would kill so many old people it's abhorrent that it is still even being considered. This isn't on Merkel, mind you, this is on the Kultusministerkonferenz for failing to do their jobs regarding school and the Ministerpräsidenten (head of states) for everything else.

Talking loudly and announcing measures a day ahead of everybody else does not mean he did well.

actually finding the right tone is important at this stage, so yes.

sapien85 · Dec 9, 2020

Reminds me of Democrat governors in the US, at first they tried to be very hard with the measures and they received massive backlash (which I think helped Trump do much better in the election than expected) and then they decided to be loose and keep businesses open as long as possible and that backfired and now people still hate them (even more so). So the backlash was going to be bad no matter what, they should have focused on containing the virus. In the US, the federal government didn't support the states with money because of Trump and Republicans and that forced reopening to some extent.

KDR_11k · Dec 9, 2020

Spine Crawler said:
why did the local prime minister block the hard lockdown merkel wanted in oktober?

Same reason politicians everywhere have been blocking or delaying measures against COVID, "Think of the economy!"

Deleted member 8166 · Dec 9, 2020

Spine Crawler said:
why did the local prime minister block the hard lockdown merkel wanted in oktober?

Economy

Gandie · Dec 9, 2020

Spine Crawler said:
actually finding the right tone is important at this stage, so yes.

More important than tone is taking the right measures, looking at the numbers Söder has clearly screwed up. The fact that he is hailed as some sort of savant because of strong words is mind boggling.

bionic77 · Dec 9, 2020

It is kind of scary how badly everyone from governments to citizens have been at handling this crisis around the world.

You want to believe that competent people in charge know how to take care of everyone but this really makes one doubt that.

Shodan14 · Dec 9, 2020

Clessidor said:
She is definitively a good crisis manager. Especially in this one, because she takes the situation as serious as it is. But we shouldn't forget for how long she is leading the goverment in Germany. There is a bunch of stuff not handled well. Nuclear power phase-out to give one example, but I won't go into detail, not to derail the thread. I just want to say a lot of critic is justified.

ERA seems very quick to forget that in addition to being a very savvy political operator, Merkel is also the ultimate centrist. Not to mention that her very large shadow will have messed up German politics for a good long time after she leaves.

Spine Crawler · Dec 9, 2020

Gandie said:
More important than tone is taking the right measures, looking at the numbers Söder has clearly screwed up. The fact that he is hailed as some sort of savant because of strong words is mind boggling.

Well as I said, I dont like him very much. However Bayern is a big state and Munich is one of the densest areas. Also Bayern is near to Austria, Czech, Poland, Swiss and Italy.

Gandie · Dec 9, 2020

Spine Crawler said:
Well as I said, I dont like him very much. However Bayern is a big state and Munich is one of the densest areas. Also Bayern is near to Austria, Czech, Poland, Swiss and Italy.

I'm of course talking about numbers relative to capita. Other states are much more densly populated and got hit harder earlier and have better numbers.

AmFreak · Dec 9, 2020

Dirt McGirt said:
Federal states have the final say in lockdown rules which makes sense, not every Bundesland was hit equally hard, but most were reluctant to make the lockdown harder before Winter, even the ones hit most hard.

I'm not talking about a lockdown, i'm talking about preparation for the 2nd wave.
Preparing health offices, schools, ffp2 masks/rapid tests, improving the corona app and making sure it works as intended.

crazillo · Dec 9, 2020

Obviously I also hope Merkel's call gets through to the federal states and they will finally act. However, I'm so upset that it even has to come this far given that people are just not taking the pandemic seriously anymore. They are to blame at least as much as the governments at this point. If people do what they are allowed to do to the utmost limit of the law rather than using their rationality and compassion to act sensibly for each other, then governments have no choice but to enact those harder and harder measures. God, I wish people were better. Our individualism in the west has gone so far that it will cost us bitterly.

Deleted member 10612 · Dec 9, 2020

It's not her fault that there are so so many stupid people around. Would we all just adhere to the very simple rules all of this would have been over six months ago.

Dekuman · Dec 9, 2020

In Canada too there are the muh freedom crowd. While a majority is in favor of masks its only in the 60 to 70% range leaving 30 to 40% crazies

The narrative that this is primarily a US issue has made lots of people quite complacent

The vaccination story is even more complex with only 59% in support of mandatory vaccination https://globalnews.ca/news/7488523/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-canada-mandatory-ipsos/amp/

Chairmanchuck (另一个我) · Dec 9, 2020

crazillo said:
Obviously I also hope Merkel's call gets through to the federal states and they will finally act. However, I'm so upset that it even has to come this far given that people are just not taking the pandemic seriously anymore. They are to blame at least as much as the governments at this point. If people do what they are allowed to do to the utmost limit of the law rather than using their rationality and compassion to act sensibly for each other, then governments have no choice but to enact those harder and harder measures. God, I wish people were better. Our individualism in the west has gone so far that it will cost us bitterly.

I wouldnt put the blame all on people though.

For schools, we are in 2020. Other countries somehow are able to provide schooling via web, but somehow Germany cant.
For shopping, other countries actually have times where certain ages should do their groceries. Somehow Germany cant.
Other countries close non-necessary shops during the pandemic. Germany cant/does not want.

And the only cities where you cant go out outside of doctors appointments or shopping for necessities, those measures are all taken after they become a covid hotspot.

In passionate speech to the German parliament, Merkel urges for hard lockdown and defends science

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