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Boycott?

  • Yes

    Votes: 601 57.5%
  • No

    Votes: 390 37.3%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 54 5.2%

  • Total voters
    1,045

IamFlying

Alt Account
Banned
Apr 6, 2019
765
as if Google has a much better stance on China. It doesn't, while simultaneously also being worse on privacy, so bravo
...
and instead they often come off as an opportunity to be racist against Chinese people
...
I know Google and Microsoft have the same (or frankly worse) history of bowing down to CCP pressure and they are also usually worse on personal privacy (I'm not even dignifying the comments suggesting buying a device made by a Chinese company with an answer, other than that I would distrust both that hardware and software). This is precisely why I'm so extremely disappointed in Apple.
...

The difference between your post and Op post: Op has actual facts. You are writing with the "I know something" and "often" phrases, that are "often" used when there are no facts to support the argument.

You may be right, may be not. Just give sources if you want to be taken seriously.
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,342
I use Apple products everyday and I'm invested in the ecosystem, so no.

As awareness, a user on Reddit compiled a list of companies that have censored stuff for China. Here it is.

I dont think its fair to put Red Candle Games in that list because afaik they were the biggest victims of it and didnt do it out of wanting to comply with China but for their own safety
 

FreeangelGP05

Member
Oct 31, 2017
303
Raleigh, NC
I dont think its fair to put Red Candle Games in that list because afaik they were the biggest victims of it and didnt do it out of wanting to comply with China but for their own safety

I'm not saying a company should be on there or not, just mostly sharing for awareness for people who may be looking for more information into this issue. I just want everyone to have as much information as possible about this since it is so complicated.
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,342
I'm not saying a company should be on there or not, just mostly sharing for awareness for people who may be looking for more information into this issue. I just want everyone to have as much information as possible about this since it is so complicated.

But just namedropping them in that list without giving the full context of what happened is the opposite of information, its misinformation. Makes someone who suffered dearly from the China censorship looks like all other companies that are bowing down to get the chinese money
 

Furyous

Banned
Jan 7, 2018
433
Honestly, I'm not willing to boycot Apple over this.

There a few things the mob of people outraged must realize:

These are global corporations operating in a highly competitive market that demands their values are upheld. You literally cannot operate business in China by pissing off their government.

If we're honest a portion of people outraged by Apple want it to fall and this a great excuse...

Can everyone outraged apply this same fervor to issues in our own country? There's shit going on our government that literally threatens the fabric of democracy yet you're railing against Apple. If this energy was redirected to other causes America is a better place today.

I hate to break it to you but every corporation that operates in China is dealing with this issue. Let's not limit this to Apple. If any corporation was in Apple's position they would take similar actions or shareholders replace them with people that take similar actions.

Business is brutal, at times ruthless, and unfair but it's business. Take your emotions and alleged patriotism away from this situation to put yourselves in Apple decision Maker's hands.

If you've read this far, I'm too worried about getting shot by police for no reason, getting the cops called on me for breathing in your presence to mascot ambulance chase for free speech in China. I deal with historic targeted issues that disproportionately affect my country to go out my way to boycott a corporation for following Chinese business rules. While you rail against free speech in China and reforming their government please allocate some of that energy to fix our country.

If you feel Apple is wrong don't buy their products but I doubt everyone agreeing with the op did in the first place...
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,618
Spain
Not sure where you get your info from but they are the largest smartphone company in China and have their own cloud services that hosts people's data in China, therefore requiring those back doors.

It's also been suspected that these phones have backdoors as well.

I get people want to boycott apple and jump ship, but these companies y'all choose are far more sketchier than you think.
I mean, personally I haven't owned a single Apple product ever save for a first gen iPod Shuffle that was given to me when it was old. I don't necessarily boycott Apple, I simply don't think their offerings are competitive for a number of reasons that include their price and their hostility to repairs.

Boycotting China and still using technology is completely unfeasible because so much of the supply chain relies on Chinese firms at all levels. And then you have the people who just want a cold war against China, probably not realizing that it would probably cause far more suffering and tyranny around the world than the alternative of accepting that there's going to be authoritarian regimes around the world and there's nothing America can do to bring freedom to them.
 

Deleted member 49611

Nov 14, 2018
5,052
will never use another apple product/service again.
 

TechnicPuppet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,807
Honestly, I'm not willing to boycot Apple over this.

There a few things the mob of people outraged must realize:

These are global corporations operating in a highly competitive market that demands their values are upheld. You literally cannot operate business in China by pissing off their government.

If we're honest a portion of people outraged by Apple want it to fall and this a great excuse...

Can everyone outraged apply this same fervor to issues in our own country? There's shit going on our government that literally threatens the fabric of democracy yet you're railing against Apple. If this energy was redirected to other causes America is a better place today.

I hate to break it to you but every corporation that operates in China is dealing with this issue. Let's not limit this to Apple. If any corporation was in Apple's position they would take similar actions or shareholders replace them with people that take similar actions.

Business is brutal, at times ruthless, and unfair but it's business. Take your emotions and alleged patriotism away from this situation to put yourselves in Apple decision Maker's hands.

If you've read this far, I'm too worried about getting shot by police for no reason, getting the cops called on me for breathing in your presence to mascot ambulance chase for free speech in China. I deal with historic targeted issues that disproportionately affect my country to go out my way to boycott a corporation for following Chinese business rules. While you rail against free speech in China and reforming their government please allocate some of that energy to fix our country.

If you feel Apple is wrong don't buy their products but I doubt everyone agreeing with the op did in the first place...

What's with the ... is there something ominious?
 

FreeangelGP05

Member
Oct 31, 2017
303
Raleigh, NC
But just namedropping them in that list without giving the full context of what happened is the opposite of information, its misinformation. Makes someone who suffered dearly from the China censorship looks like all other companies that are bowing down to get the chinese money

I didn't make the list. This issue is so complicated and a lot of stuff is being posted without context and a lot of misinformation is going around about this issue.
If you feel the list is misinformation, I will remove it.
 

Dezzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,431
USA
Do we cherry pick what we should boycott now? Everyone went after Blizzard over one incident, but when Apple does something, or many things just as bad, people are like ehh I like my Apple products too much.

If people are gonna claim that they put human rights over products, then at least be consistent.
 

Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
Do we cherry pick what we should boycott now? Everyone went after Blizzard over one incident, but when Apple does something, or many things just as bad, people are like ehh I like my Apple products too much.

If people are gonna claim that they put human rights over products, then at least be consistent.
You don't have to be consistent to make a difference.
 

MegaXZero

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jun 21, 2018
5,079
The only apple product I have is my phone, and it looks like I'll now be leaving the ecosystem when I get my next one.
 

Dezzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,431
USA
You don't have to be consistent to make a difference.
No, but my real point is that people were looking down on others who didn't want to give up Blizzard games, but at the same time aren't willing to give up Apple products. Boycott all you want, or don't. Just don't judge other's decisions if they feel differently.
 

Seirith

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,306
I actually really like android but the iPhone is just better and higher quality than any android phone . They all feel cheap in comparison and the iPhone plus Mac book eco system is too good for me business wise.
so no
My Galaxy S5 and now S8 have never had any issues, even after being dropped or knocked off by my cats where as every single iphone user I know has cracked their screen, some multiple times. My cousin broke her screen when her phone fell out of her pocket while sitting on a chair onto carpet, not once but twice. It being "better" is preference.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,789
While nowhere near a total boycott I already avoid them due to sleazy market practice. Will never sub to their services, will always buy 3rd party accessories, will never buy from Apple directly. I am forced to own Apple products as the nature of being a developer, you can't actually get certification or test without those devices (even though little prevents it from being possible to develop in alternate environments aside from Apple forcing you to go through their tools, testing-only would at least be acceptable).

What I do recommend everyone do even if you are completely poisoned by koolaid: use, embrace and share PWAs and put pressure on Apple to support those APIs. PWAs (or Progressive Web Apps) are web applications using modern APIs to work and behave like any native app. Functionality, there is very little web cannot do today that would require a native app (and the rest is being filled in with help from projects like Microsoft's "The web we want" and Google's "Project Fugu") aside from Apple drag-assing on support. Apps should not come from apps stores, they should come from the web itself. This means that neither Google or Apple or anyone else can dictate what apps are appropriate for use, nor can they leverage fees upon them unless they actually are providing a valuable service and not just a monopoly gatekeeper. It means anyone in any ecosystem can use the app. It also means users have to fully install far fewer bullshit single purpose apps. Pressure companies to make their mobile apps PWAs instead, or at least in addition to whatever native offering they want to give.

That and tell your representative that app stores need competition and that Google and Apple must provide alternatives out of the box.
 

Midas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,535
I only use their hardware so it's easy. But when it's time for a new computer? Who knows, MacOS is getting worse with every new release. Might consider Windows in the future.
 

Slime Stack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,189
Puerto Rico
What would the alternative be? Google is not exactly innocent either so that leaves android out. At least Apple has better privacy measures state side.
 

Deleted member 11822

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,644
Yep. The last apple thing I use day to day is my company-issued laptop. In a few months, when I am eligible for a new machine so I'll be requesting a Linux laptop.
 

Castor Archer

Member
Jan 8, 2019
2,296
Never bought an Apple product and always thought they were a shit company, I've hated every time I had to use their products for school and work. So I'll continue not buying them.
 

Seirith

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,306
You don't have to be consistent to make a difference.

So what Blizzard did was horrible and people should never buy/play a Blizzard game again but what Apple did is fine because people want to keep their iphones and computers? It doesn't make sense to act like people who don't boycott Blizzard are "trash people that don't care about human rights" but then think it is fine to keep using Apple devices when they too are doing bad things.
 

hanshen

Member
Jun 24, 2018
3,849
Chicago, IL
The difference between your post and Op post: Op has actual facts. You are writing with the "I know something" and "often" phrases, that are "often" used when there are no facts to support the argument.

You may be right, may be not. Just give sources if you want to be taken seriously.

he also says he prefers a British HK.
Ive got no time for colonial nostalgia.
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Yes, absolutely. Working on extending boycott to my family members.
 

Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
So what Blizzard did was horrible and people should never buy/play a Blizzard game again but what Apple did is fine because people want to keep their iphones and computers? It doesn't make sense to act like people who don't boycott Blizzard are "trash people that don't care about human rights" but then think it is fine to keep using Apple devices when they too are doing bad things.
It makes perfect sense. You don't need to be morally pure or even morally consistent in order to make an impact.
 

Deleted member 16609

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,828
Harlem, NYC
The same Apple that said "fuck you to the FBI" When other US companies were like "here you go" with their customer information. Hate on Apple all you want but this ain't it.
 

aevanhoe

Slayer of the Eternal Voidslurper
Member
Aug 28, 2018
7,316
Just so people know, it's not like Apple has a choice here. Peter Kafka, writing at Recode:

Unlike tech companies that haven't broken into the country or only do minor business in it, Apple is now so deep in China that leaving it could be catastrophic. Even if the company was willing to forgo the $44 billion a year in sales it makes in China, it can't leave the deep network of suppliers and assemblers that build hundreds of millions of iPhones every year.
Earlier this year, in response to the escalating US-China trade war, Apple floated the idea that it could move some of its production outside of China to hedge its bets. But it was only willing to suggest that it would move a third of production.
So even if Apple decided to make the wrenching decision to get out of China today, it couldn't. It is stuck there, for better and for worse.
 

Negatorous

Member
Jul 14, 2018
1,253
I don't participate at all with cancel culture or boycotts etc. If you dig deep enough on most of these large companies you can and will find shit you would be upset about. I don't play games on my phone for a long time now anyway.
 

BashNasty

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,891
This place is super anti-Apple so the results were a given.

Yep, Era is generally anti-Blizzard and anti-Apple, so the responses these threads are getting isn't surprising in the least (could you imagine a boycott Bungie thread... my god). I'd love to see the dissonance if a company like Naughty Dog or CD Projekt did something deemed boycott-worthy.

I won't be boycotting Apple, and I'm not boycotting Blizzard either, for the simple fact that I love both companies' products and have no desire to stop using them.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,431
Yep, Era is generally anti-Blizzard and anti-Apple, so the responses these threads are getting isn't surprising in the least (could you imagine a boycott Bungie thread... my god). I'd love to see the dissonance if a company like Naughty Dog or CD Projekt did something deemed boycott-worthy.

I won't be boycotting Apple, and I'm not boycotting Blizzard either, for the simple fact that I love both companies' products and have no desire to stop using them.
We saw what happened with the sexual harassment at Naughty Dog, eg. nothing happened.
 

Captain of Outer Space

Come Sale Away With Me
Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,288
I stopped supporting them 10 years after bad experiences with the iPod Touch I had where they let devs update games I owned to make them unplayable and blocked me from getting basic features, so this just adds to the reasons to not buy any of their crap.
 

shinken

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,917
Not sure where you get your info from but they are the largest smartphone company in China and have their own cloud services that hosts people's data in China, therefore requiring those back doors.

It's also been suspected that these phones have backdoors as well.

I get people want to boycott apple and jump ship, but these companies y'all choose are far more sketchier than you think.
Huawei is the biggest smartphone maker in China, not Xiaomi, they are like at no.4. vivo and Oppo are at no.2 and 3 respectively.

Q2 2019:
1. Huawei - 37% Marketshare, +27% YoY change, 36.3m shipments
4. Xiaomi - 11.9% Marketshare , -19% YoY change, 11.7m shipments

But yeah, the other person was wrong. Xiaomi doesn't use standard Android, but their own version called miui and has their own cloud services. Their smartphone OS and services are actually very similar to that of Apple's iOS.
 

Finaika

Member
Dec 11, 2017
13,250
Huawei is the biggest smartphone maker in China, not Xiaomi, they are like at no.4. vivo and Oppo are at no.2 and 3 respectively.

Q2 2019:
1. Huawei - 37% Marketshare, +27% YoY change, 36.3m shipments
4. Xiaomi - 11.9% Marketshare , -19% YoY change, 11.7m shipments

But yeah, the other person was wrong. Xiaomi doesn't use standard Android, but their own version called miui and has their own cloud services. Their smartphone OS and services are actually very similar to that of Apple's iOS.
Damn I'm using a Huawei modem.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961