• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Dec 28, 2017
495
I think this scrutiny should apply to all games. We still need to wait for the final version and then make decisions based on the final version. On my part I don't believe that The last of us 2 gameplay was running on ps4 and I doubt the final version will look like that.
 

AntiMacro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,136
Alberta
The hub location was kind of weird. One time you'd go through and it's daytime and almost empty. The next time it's night and it's busier. Other times it's busier during the day... No sense of a circadian rhythm to it.

I think the outside world compares, but it depends a lot of time of day. It looks so much better during the just off-noon times.

antimacro_anthemdemo_ztj45.png


antimacro_anthemdemo_5wjjj.png


antimacro_anthemdemo_c2kq6.png
 

RexNovis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,154

PS9

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,066
But the game has been scaled down to base console content parity since the reveal

So if the game has been scaled down, then why does Xbox One X look and sound horrible in Tarsis compared to the reveal video? Sure they've downgraded the visuals, but shouldn't that mean the area runs even better on X now? It's an isolated hub seperate from interference from the rest of the game world, if they had the hub running "in engine real-time on Xbox One X", they why does it look like such a turd on X now? It doesn't make sense, they've had 18 months to improve the hub since then.
 

LavaBadger

Member
Nov 14, 2017
4,988
Seemed obvious to me at the time. It was all very canned and scripted. Don't trust anything that looks like that. This gen should have taught us that much at least.
 

CozMick

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,242
My 100% accurate judgement based on pixelated/compressed youtube/twitch streams is still intact i see...

I was sceptical during the announcement but seeing it in-game during Biowares launch streams it was clear the game was heavily downgraded.
 

Unclebenny

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,766
I agree that it puts the devs in a tight spot, and the real solution is a publisher that doesn't insist on gameplay being shown years out. But given that's not always the reality of the situation, of the options you laid out, my choice would absolutely be " intentionally scale back on your aims, to then reveal a better looking game and ensure you don't overpromise". From business, to relationships, to almost any other situation in life, most people would agree that "under promise, and over deliver" is a good quality to have. Even if the initial reveal doesn't blow people's minds, and leaves them thinking "yeah, that might be alright", you have lots of time, and lots of public appearances left to improve and then have people leave thinking "man, this is looking better and better!"

Decisions like this are made solely to make a big splash, and get people hyped up, with no regard for how the next two years are gonna go. It's blowing your load early, and leaving it up to the devs to clean up the mess and pray they can live up to those expectations.

I think part of the problem is that to have a game of this size, there needs to be some marketing build up. An impression needs to be made.

As I mentioned, it's not just the makers of the game pushing for early reveals. The whole mess of Blizzard not revealing Diablo 4 showed that you can sour a lot of people by not providing them with something.

I'm not a marketer but I imagine they spend some time thinking about community management. Half the game is to get people talking about your product. For that you show your best.

Also how do you get your dev team to even aim for "this is what we hope to realistically achieve in a few years"? It is probably really difficult to render to an estimated level.

I'm not saying all this is great or anything, I just don't think they can win whatever they do and the thread title is so accusatory that I wanted to provide some blowback.
 

LavaBadger

Member
Nov 14, 2017
4,988
I struggle with the whole "downgraded" logic here.

It assumes that the game was X thing at one time, and is now a lesser Y thing.

In reality, I think X game never existed outside of a slickly produced video. So saying it was "downgraded" seems weird. Downgraded suggests to me that the vision and goals for the game ultimately outstripped the hardware/software/production limits, and they needed to dial things back to make it work. I very much doubt that was the case here at least in some areas like the hub. I doubt they ever had a game that looked like their initial demo. Maybe my intuition is wrong here.

Also how do you get your dev team to even aim for "this is what we hope to realistically achieve in a few years"? It is probably really difficult to render to an estimated level.

I think the answer here is that you shouldn't be showing target renders outside of the company if they are aspirational. That's how you set yourself up for failure. It's why my company doesn't announce new features until we're ready to launch them.
 
Last edited:

Riderz1337

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,913
Definitely a big downgrade but to be honest when I first saw the trailer I was thinking to myself that the end game won't look anywhere close to that.

Just sucks that it looks like crap on ps4 and performs like crap too.
 

Deleted member 12352

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,203
I can remember certain posters getting rather aggressive with their assertions that original announce demo was running on Xbox One X right after it was first shown.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,102
Newsflash: Until a game's basically gone gold everything is "bullshit," but especially things that are years out. That's just how game production works. Things don't even come together really until the last month or so. Before that like 99% of games are garbage.

Teams make early vertical slices to show off what they're planning.

And games change mid-production depending on a ton of things.

And of course they're going to try to make the best first impression they can. Hell, Bioware got fucking roasted for some animations in the Andromeda reveal. Think they'd do that again?
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,274
I don't think the hub world stuff was a vertical slice at all. Just straight up non-interactive CGI (made on Frostbite, but CGI still).

Devs really need stop trying to trick people into making them think they're seeing gameplay.
Yeah, the hub scenes are 100% fully scripted which would be fine if it was just marked as cutscene but with stuff like the appearing objective marker they very clearly meant to make it look like this is playable.
 
Last edited:

Taker34

QA Tester
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,122
building stone people
GTA V looked considerably "worse" compared to what was shown in the reveal trailer... and no one cared. It's one thing to try making devs look like they try to deceive their customers with vertical slices but it's obvious why Rockstar, Sony (UC4) and many other developers get a free pass. Because their games still look good after all - same thing with Anthem so I don't get this thread.
This is game development. Games are being adjusted throughout development so performance doesn't suffer just because it doesn't match the graphics of the trailer. Some studios can afford it to show their projects much later so that the end product matches with what we've seen in the reveal trailer. All major studios have done this and it's normal, whether CDPR, EA or Bethesda in case no one noticed yet.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,102
I think the answer here is that you shouldn't be showing target renders outside of the company if they are aspirational. That's how you set yourself up for failure. It's why my company doesn't announce new features until we're ready to launch them.

So then games get announced like weeks before release?

Pretty rough ask, especially in a place that fucking eats up marketing.

Tough on the business side too. Hype levels and interest are what publishers use to give projects more manpower, money, and/or time. Without that they're just swinging at nothing. That probably means we'd see less interesting ideas and more reliance on things that they know will sell well.
 

PS9

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,066
I mean they probably weren't lying, just that it's on a high end dev PC and a custom build of the game to show it off.

EA claimed during that E3 it was running on Xbox One X. They were actually given an opportunity to clarify to Digital Foundry if the footage was truly Xbox One X and not PC, EA insisted it was Xbox One X, forcing Digital Foundry to update their reporting.
 

Deepwater

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,349
Really think people should stop assigning their life's expectations to a video game's reveal. Marketers/Developers are gonna show you the best looking product they can.

When a production car ends up looking severely more realistic than its concept design, you don't see car fans get uptight. Or maybe you do, maybe there's a ResetEra for cars out there somewhere where people are still needlessly tight about the Honda Civic '11 concept drawing.

I find that video game enthusiasts are one of the few examples of a consumer good enthusiast community where the vast majority have no real idea of how the things they buy are actually made.
 

eujuan

Member
Oct 29, 2017
44
Just because it keeps happening doesn't mean we should ignore it. It's false advertisement. I can understand it happening when it's a brand new console generation and the developers are still getting to grips with the system. But they already had access to the ps4/xbone for multiple years when this was revealed. They should know what's achievable.
 

DaveLong

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,199
It looked pretty much like that trailer when I played on my Core i7 w/GTX 1070 this past weekend and the framerate was way up there too.

It has problems, sure. It also is likely that was all in engine footage from a PC.
 

Pancracio17

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,712
I really dont like the "Its a trailer it was never going to look like that" defense. Sometimes, games do look like their trailers, even better on some select scenarios. These trailers deserve to be memed.
 

Deleted member 49438

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 7, 2018
1,473
Game looks & plays amazing on PC. Everything was way more stable by Sunday. Looking forward to the open demo to see if all those issues have been ironed out.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
The core gameplay elements remain, at least. You can fly like that. Guns shoot like that. Abilities work like that. There is a fort with a market area. Yes, the graphics, details and such changed, but the core gameplay underneath all that remained relatively consistent from this vertical slice to the full game.

I'm not sure what point this thread serves because it feels like an obvious statement. You can pick almost any E3 trailer, and it is rarely, if ever, a completely accurate representation of the final product. That is the nature of E3 and vertical slice game reveals. If you don't like it, I would encourage you not to buy into the E3 hype. That hype is what fuels the same vertical slice problems that you're upset by.
Really now? It's false advertisement, no matter how you slice it, and there are companies far more guilty of it than others in this industry. DOOM or Mario Odyssey never looked better in trailers than in actual gameplay.
 

CloseTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,583
I think part of the problem is that to have a game of this size, there needs to be some marketing build up. An impression needs to be made.

As I mentioned, it's not just the makers of the game pushing for early reveals. The whole mess of Blizzard not revealing Diablo 4 showed that you can sour a lot of people by not providing them with something.

I'm not a marketer but I imagine they spend some time thinking about community management. Half the game is to get people talking about your product. For that you show your best.

Also how do you get your dev team to even aim for "this is what we hope to realistically achieve in a few years"? It is probably really difficult to render to an estimated level.

I'm not saying all this is great or anything, I just don't think they can win whatever they do and the thread title is so accusatory that I wanted to provide some blowback.
I know what you're saying, and I definitely empathize. I guess all I'd say is that it's not up to me, the consumer, to find a solution. We're the ones that are essentially being lied to to some degree (what other facet of the entertainment industry does this?), but that doesn't mean it's also on us to create the solution.

I know it's a difficult problem, but it's just marketing. From games, to film, to books, to music, to anything else, marketing has existed for a good long time. People have gotten pretty good at it. I may not know the perfect solution, but I also don't feel comfortable just saying "well, what do we expect the devs to do then?" and leaving it at that. This isn't an impossible mountain to climb, humans have solved much greater problems than marketing a video game without being borderline deceitful. And the people who solve the problem can be the ones being paid good money to handle it in the first place. Until then, my only job as a consumer is to continue calling it out, and letting them know we can see the bullshit.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
GTA V looked considerably "worse" compared to what was shown in the reveal trailer... and no one cared. It's one thing to try making devs look like they try to deceive their customers with vertical slices but it's obvious why Rockstar, Sony (UC4) and many other developers get a free pass. Because their games still look good after all - same thing with Anthem so I don't get this thread.
This is game development. Games are being adjusted throughout development so performance doesn't suffer just because it doesn't match the graphics of the trailer. Some studios can afford it to show their projects much later so that the end product matches with what we've seen in the reveal trailer. All major studios have done this and it's normal, whether CDPR, EA or Bethesda in case no one noticed yet.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Everyone does it, but they should stop doing it. You know what the hardware specs are, you know what you're working with, just be more honest. There's having to make changes during development and then there is "YOLO we know we'll never be able to do this render, but put it out anyway to get cheers at E3".

Though what I would say to OP is including Killzone 2 is just a bit unfair. That was straight up next-level bullshit.
 

Maple

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,722
Graphics aside, that trailer looks far more interesting than the actual game. Seamless transition between the hub city and the world, dynamic events, a more engaging world, etc.
 

MillionIII

Banned
Sep 11, 2018
6,816
GTA V looked considerably "worse" compared to what was shown in the reveal trailer... and no one cared. It's one thing to try making devs look like they try to deceive their customers with vertical slices but it's obvious why Rockstar, Sony (UC4) and many other developers get a free pass. Because their games still look good after all - same thing with Anthem so I don't get this thread.
This is game development. Games are being adjusted throughout development so performance doesn't suffer just because it doesn't match the graphics of the trailer. Some studios can afford it to show their projects much later so that the end product matches with what we've seen in the reveal trailer. All major studios have done this and it's normal, whether CDPR, EA or Bethesda in case no one noticed yet.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
They literally said it won't be downgraded, they lied.
 

sirap

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,210
South East Asia
I really hope the PC build lets you crank up settings to look like that , but after hearing all the complaints from the demo I don't have much confidence in a decent port :/
 

Deleted member 4072

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
880
EA claimed during that E3 it was running on Xbox One X. They were actually given an opportunity to clarify to Digital Foundry if the footage was truly Xbox One X and not PC, EA insisted it was Xbox One X, forcing Digital Foundry to update their reporting.
I mean they weren't lying about it being in game and real time. Just on a high end PC.