In defense of Billionaires

[BAD]

what would you say? I can't think of anything

Silicon Valley’s richest are getting richer just as the pandemic is getting worse

The net worth of Jeff Bezos grew by a record $13 billion on Monday.

www.vox.com

are they leveraging their wealth for their lowest men and women?

Jeff Bezos added $13 billion to his net worth on Monday, his highest one day increase yet

While the US economy may have shrunk during the coronavirus pandemic, Jeff Bezos earned $74 billion in 2020, Bloomberg reported.

www.businessinsider.com

Retailers are canceling coronavirus hazard pay. That's a mistake

In March, as coronavirus cases started to rise and governors issued stay-at-home orders, major retailers took a cue from a decades-old practice used in the military.

www.cnn.com

do they seem to be well regulated and paying fair taxes?

The Rich Are Getting Richer During The Pandemic

Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Warren Buffett and Larry Ellison collectively witnessed their already incredible wealth increase by $101.7 billion between March 18 and June 17.

www.forbes.com

Bloomberg Pledged Hundreds of Millions to Defeat Trump. Where Is It?

“He made a lot of pledges at the beginning... And then he just decided not to,” said Rebecca Katz, a progressive Democratic strategist.

www.thedailybeast.com

because it feels like they take tax credits and loopholes all day and sit on their money...

Elon Musk is the 5th-wealthiest person in the world, according to Forbes

Elon Musk's net worth skyrocketed past the $74 billion mark, making him the fifth-richest person in the world on Monday, according to Forbes.

www.businessinsider.com

but I could be wrong

 

[Kyuuji]

You're not.

 

[Deleted member 9746]

I love this journey for you.

 

[Steven]

There's no defense, really. The only thing billionaires can do to make their egregious abuse of capitalism "right" is take the Bill Gates approach, but do it earlier and more often.

For all of Twitter's problems, Jack Dorsey seems to be trying in that regard.

 

[electricblue]

What would happen if we forced billionaires to use all their money to build infrastructure? Would it amount to anything or expose the fact that its all bs wall street fakery

 

[Terrell]

There's no defense, really. The only thing billionaires can do to make their egregious abuse of capitalism "right" is take the Bill Gates approach, but do it earlier and more often.

For all of Twitter's problems, Jack Dorsey seems to be trying in that regard.

Click to shrink...

The "Bill Gates" approach just means the rich get to absolutely dictate how their wealth is distributed, when that should be under the purview of the people. To say nothing of all the other ills of philathro-capitalism, including its use as PR of the "good guy billionaire" to deflect critique of their class as a whole and them specifically. I mean, your post is a prime example of how well it works.

If Gates and Buffett really want to help, they should forfeit their ability to decide how to shape the world with their wealth and voluntarily submit it through income tax at the same rate as the working class.

 

[ItRhymesWithDoom]

There isn't a defense. Maybe in strange isolated cases like someone making a successful product and simply not having the ability to go full Brewster's Billions, but those are extremely rare.

 

[MrCibb]

If Gates and Buffett really want to help, they should forfeit their ability to decide how to shape the world with their wealth and voluntarily submit it through income tax at the same rate as the working class.

Click to shrink...

Pretty sure Bill Gates has argued for higher taxes on the rich for a long time. But he can't make it happen himself. Good ol' Government!

 

[Mekanos]

It's meal time.

 

[Deleted member 4783]

At first I was "wtf is with that title" and then I was "OHHH YOU SNEAKY, YOU!"

 

[Luckett_X]

I bet they taste great.

 

[Deleted member 24052]

Lol nah

 

[killerrin]

In defence of billionaires, atleast there is atleast a small handful of them that are using their wealth correctly for the betterment of humanity...

...As for the rest, they can go fuck themselves completely and do something with their wealth that benefits humanity before we go praising them or pretending that they are worth keeping around.

 

[Lari]

People may be dying, but bizness is booming!

 

[Veliladon]

 

[Infcabbage]

It is impossible for one to obtain such an insane amount of wealth, and also be a good person. 1 billion dollars is so much fucking money, and nobody has ever gotten there without being extremely exploitative and trampling all over human rights in some capacity.
Those resources need to be returned to the people.

 

[Deleted member 2317]

Click to shrink...

fucking lmao

But seriously, yes, public executions and redisitribution of wealth.

 

[Steven]

The "Bill Gates" approach just means the rich get to absolutely dictate how their wealth is distributed, when that should be under the purview of the people. To say nothing of all the other ills of philathro-capitalism, including its use as PR of the "good guy billionaire" to deflect critique of their class as a whole and them specifically. I mean, your post is a prime example of how well it works.

If Gates and Buffett really want to help, they should forfeit their ability to decide how to shape the world with their wealth and voluntarily submit it through income tax at the same rate as the working class.

Click to shrink...

Let's be real, as long as capitalism exists in its current form, what you suggest will never happen. What Bill Gates is doing is better than hoarding the wealth entirely.

I never said that he's a good guy. I said the best they can do realistically is take that approach

 

[BAD]

Pretty sure Bill Gates has argued for higher taxes on the rich for a long time. But he can't make it happen himself. Good ol' Government!

Click to shrink...

Using exploitation to get yourself so comfortably rich you can afford any tax does not mean you were ethical and don't have exploited wealth

Gates has plenty of controversy for wage issues, Union issues, tax loopholes, and every other scummy move to make a business blow up faster at the expense of the lowest people working to make your business function

 

[Sordid Plebeian]

Billionaires are the fault of a broken system, I couldn't care less if they existed if everyone's basic needs were taken care of first instead of jeopardized so they can accumulate even more wealth

 

[nekkid]

The "Bill Gates" approach just means the rich get to absolutely dictate how their wealth is distributed, when that should be under the purview of the people. To say nothing of all the other ills of philathro-capitalism, including its use as PR of the "good guy billionaire" to deflect critique of their class as a whole and them specifically. I mean, your post is a prime example of how well it works.

If Gates and Buffett really want to help, they should forfeit their ability to decide how to shape the world with their wealth and voluntarily submit it through income tax at the same rate as the working class.

Click to shrink...

The thing I'd say there is that if they were taxed to high heaven or, as you say, their wealth was distributed as the populace see fit, it would largely if not wholly remain domestic. That's not to say there's not good causes there, but at least Gates is addressing global issues with his fortune.

 

[jakeh111]

There's no defense, really. The only thing billionaires can do to make their egregious abuse of capitalism "right" is take the Bill Gates approach, but do it earlier and more often.

For all of Twitter's problems, Jack Dorsey seems to be trying in that regard.

Click to shrink...

Nothing against you but fuck the bill gates approach. They need to be taxed accordingly.

 

[Chaos Legion]

What would happen if we forced billionaires to use all their money to build infrastructure? Would it amount to anything or expose the fact that its all bs wall street fakery

Click to shrink...

People would begin to realize what net worth means, hopefully.

But theoretically, if we took the global net worth of all billionaires and assumed that it was tangible and could be utilized to fund...whatever. You'd have $8 trillion dollars. Remember, that is on a global basis. So, eating them all would equate to an appetizer.

 

[Dennis8K]

They shouldn't exist. Tax so no one has more than $999 million to their name.

If you have $999,000,000 you don't need any more. You maxed out your level cap. Just be happy and enjoy life.

 

[Wetwork]

They might make good fertilizer for crops.

The working class and the employer class have nothing in common. Billionaires have no right to exist.

 

[BAD]

People would begin to realize what net worth means, hopefully.

But theoretically, if we took the global net worth of all billionaires and assumed that it was tangible and could be utilized to fund...whatever. You'd have $8 trillion dollars. Remember, that is on a global basis. So, eating them all would equate to an appetizer.

Click to shrink...

Is your point:

1. billionaires aren't a big issue because they only control $8 trillion so we can look away and let them go on?
2. their wealth isn't enough to solve everything so we shouldn't address it in conjunction with other issues?
3. the companies they used to get wealth figures this high by taking tax credits and loopholes to not pay taxes are a separate issue and not intertwined with the intentionally exploitive management of these billionaires?

What is your point by minimizing them and their companies' predatory existences?

 

[SnakeXs]

They shouldn't exist. Tax so no one has more than $999 million to their name.

If you have $999,000,000 you don't need any more. You maxed out your level cap. Just be happy and enjoy life.

Click to shrink...

And there should be a deeply progressive tax rate up to that point. The concentration of wealth is a scourge on humanity as a whole.

But how else will we get fancy mountain clocks.

 

[Rendering...]

The best thing you can say about billionaires is that it might prove convenient to have so much wealth concentrated around high profile individuals if governments ever find the balls to tax them appropriately.

Of course, the smart ones would keep their assets so dispersed that it wouldn't matter.

They shouldn't exist. Tax so no one has more than $999 million to their name.

If you have $999,000,000 you don't need any more. You maxed out your level cap. Just be happy and enjoy life.

Click to shrink...

I can fathom why any normal person would need more than $100 million. Even that is a bonkers number.

 

[Gawge]

In defence of billionaires, atleast there is atleast a small handful of them that are using their wealth correctly for the betterment of humanity...

Click to shrink...

That's just good PR. Easy to do when you have billions.

 

[Rendering...]

That's just good PR. Easy to do when you have billions.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, the philanthropic actions of most billionaires are probably equivalent to an average person donating less than $100 per month to charity. I mean, if you break down the ratio of their net worth that they're giving away.

Billionaires are stupid rich. If you're rich enough that losing $1 million is like dropping a $10 bill in the street, that's fucking nutballs.

 

[Terrell]

Pretty sure Bill Gates has argued for higher taxes on the rich for a long time. But he can't make it happen himself. Good ol' Government!

Click to shrink...

He also used that argument to poo-poo candidates like Elizabeth Warren. So it's "I want a higher tax rate, but I don't want it in a way that sacrifices my position."
He could pay higher taxes right now by working to dismantle Microsoft's tax shelters. Guess which way he and his company went with that? Instead of fighting for that, he left the board in 2020 so he could absolve himself of the day-to-day responsibility of this tax dodging, while still benefiting from it with the shares he possesses.

Asking for a higher tax rate doesn't mean shit when you're sheltering your wealth through tax havens and... oh, I dunno, hiding it in a charitable foundation. Dude doesn't mean anything when he discusses that, because he knows all the ways around it.

The IRS Decided to Get Tough Against Microsoft. Microsoft Got Tougher.

For years, the company has moved billions in profits to Puerto Rico to avoid taxes. When the IRS pushed it to pay, Microsoft protested that the agency wasn’t being nice. Then it aggressively fought back in court, lobbied Congress and changed the law.

www.propublica.org

Let's be real, as long as capitalism exists in its current form, what you suggest will never happen. What Bill Gates is doing is better than hoarding the wealth entirely.

I never said that he's a good guy. I said the best they can do realistically is take that approach

Click to shrink...

Yeah, instead he gets to shelter it as charitable money and pretend he's doing the world a favour instead of shaping it to his whims.

And perhaps if that'll never happen, capitalism shouldn't and doesn't deserve its comfortable existence.

Lastly, you never argued that he's a good guy, just a better guy than most because of his doing the "right" thing, which is certainly not the same thing, but not much better. And it's exactly what he wants to happen with his current swindle.

The thing I'd say there is that if they were taxed to high heaven or, as you say, their wealth was distributed as the populace see fit, it would largely if not wholly remain domestic. That's not to say there's not good causes there, but at least Gates is addressing global issues with his fortune.

Click to shrink...

Yes, because public money is never given to foreign aid. Nope. Never. /s

And besides, he can do that good work overseas with his principal wealth, of which he will still have an absolute abundance of. He always talks about not wanting to die with his money. Time to practice what he damn-well preaches at every damn opportunity.

 

[Justin Bailey]

Warren Buffett is pretty cool.

But seriously I mean there isn't much defense of Musk being a jackass. One thing I can think of is that we tend to think wrongly about their actual money. The "billions" they have aren't sitting in their checking out somewhere, it's usually just the worth of some company they started/own. From there we end up seeing Twitter posts/news articles saying things like "Jeff Bezos can give everyone in the world X dollars." or "Bill Gates can stack $1 bills to the moon." or something. No they can't. Their "money" only exists in the collective marketplace that places a value on something they started. They don't have anywhere near that amount of cash sitting on hand and they never will.

To make an analogy to governing bodies - business owners are basically modern feudal lords, and companies are structured as dictatorships or oligarchies. Billionaires are inevitable in this environment. I think the only way to prevent this would be to force companies to be employee-owned.

 

[Chaos Legion]

Is your point:

1. billionaires aren't a big issue because they only control $8 trillion so we can look away and let them go on?
2. their wealth isn't enough to solve everything so we shouldn't address it in conjunction with other issues?
3. the companies they used to get wealth figures this high by taking tax credits and loopholes to not pay taxes are a separate issue and not intertwined with the intentionally exploitive management of these billionaires?

What is your point by minimizing them and their companies' predatory existences?

Click to shrink...

My point was to answer a theoretical raised by another poster.

They shouldn't exist. Tax so no one has more than $999 million to their name.

If you have $999,000,000 you don't need any more. You maxed out your level cap. Just be happy and enjoy life.

Click to shrink...

So if Bezos restructures Amazon so he gets rid of all of his economic ownership in the Company (at least to $999 million) while maintaining control through voting stock and remaining CEO, he'll be a "good guy" because his net worth is below $1 billion?

 

[Tsuyu]

There is only 1 defense and that is they as a group do not fully represent the issue.

Every bourgeois has his lackeys. These lackeys made up much more than the arbitrary 0.0001% class, they are your lobbyists, politicians donors right to the average middle-class who will vote in favor of the current capitalist system.

 

[captive]

If Gates and Buffett really want to help, they should forfeit their ability to decide how to shape the world with their wealth and voluntarily submit it through income tax at the same rate as the working class.

Click to shrink...

Irrespective of how much taxes rich people should pay, this is a really dumb take because Gates is spending loads of money to help other countries. If you just taxed that into the US system no benefit would go to other countries.

So unless you're also proposing a global taxation system along with that, there not really much point in your proposal.

 

[Terrell]

Irrespective of how much taxes rich people should pay, this is a really dumb take because Gates is spending loads of money to help other countries. If you just taxed that into the US system no benefit would go to other countries.

So unless you're also proposing a global taxation system along with that, there not really much point in your proposal.

Click to shrink...

TIL people think fair taxation = poverty.

Again, he would still have plenty of money to spend as he sees fit, even if he was taxed at the same rate as the rest of the population. It's private wealth, there's no "shareholder" argument to be made against it. And he talks about not leaving behind a gross sum in inheritance, so... again, he can practice what he preaches, unless we're ready to admit that he preaches bullshit.

 

[nekkid]

Yes, because public money is never given to foreign aid. Nope. Never. /s

And besides, he can do that good work overseas with his principal wealth, of which he will still have an absolute abundance of. He always talks about not wanting to die with his money. Time to practice what he damn-well preaches at every damn opportunity.

Click to shrink...

Yes of course there's foreign aid. But how much of his taxes would actually go to that in comparison to, say, defence spend?

 

[Shroki]

I can't help but roll my eyes at anyone using Bill Gates and Warren Buffett as the example here.

Even if they don't 100% align with your particular tax code of choice, they both publicly and repeatedly - without prompting in many cases - support higher marginal tax rates for the wealthy.

Meanwhile you have the Adelson's and the Koch's and the Walton's and almost every hedge-fund billionaire on earth actively campaigning against tax code reform and nobody will say their names.

 

[Deleted member 7130]

Don't just tax the rich. End wealth accumulation by the rich and exploitation of labor. Seize the means of production and end capitalism

 

[MrCibb]

Using exploitation to get yourself so comfortably rich you can afford any tax does not mean you were ethical and don't have exploited wealth

Gates has plenty of controversy for wage issues, Union issues, tax loopholes, and every other scummy move to make a business blow up faster at the expense of the lowest people working to make your business function

Click to shrink...

I don't think I said anything about it being ethical or anything else about Gates? Was just pointing out that increasing taxation on the rich is a decision made by the Government, not the wealthy. Tax evasion and other things are an entirely different matter I wasn't talking about.

 

[Terrell]

I can't help but roll my eyes at anyone using Bill Gates and Warren Buffett as the example here.

Even if they don't 100% align with your particular tax code of choice, they both publicly and repeatedly - without prompting in many cases - support higher marginal tax rates for the wealthy.

Meanwhile you have the Adelson's and the Koch's and the Walton's and almost every hedge-fund billionaire on earth actively campaigning against tax code reform and nobody will say their names.

Click to shrink...

That's the point. The "better billionaire" sucks all the oxygen out of the conversation with "they should be like those two" rhetoric. I've got to a point where I can't help but think that's the entire purpose of Gates and Buffett's rhetoric, to protect the rest of their class and provide a defence against the dismantling of capitalism.

 

[captive]

TIL people think fair taxation = poverty.

Again, he would still have plenty of money to spend as he sees fit, even if he was taxed at the same rate as the rest of the population. It's private wealth, there's no "shareholder" argument to be made against it. And he talks about not leaving behind a gross sum in inheritance, so... again, he can practice what he preaches, unless we're ready to admit that he preaches bullshit.

Click to shrink...

TIL people continue to not read people's posts and just make shit up as they go. Oh wait, that's been an age long thing on the internet.

Literally the first line of my posts says irrespective of how much rich people should pay in taxes.

Your post specifically said they should forfeit their right to shape the world. Key word world.
I was simply pointing out it doesn't matter how much you tax them that money going into the US system is going to do fuck all for the world. Especially under this administration, but historically as well.

 

[MisterSnrub]

I don't mind there being an incentive structure in society to motivate people, or a meritocratic approach - to an extent - but it benefits nobody for billionaires to exist and the few who do reach that level tend to be absolutely awful human beings. I long for the day we drain their bank accounts.

 

[Shroki]

That's the point. The "better billionaire" sucks all the oxygen out of the conversation with "they should be like those two" rhetoric. I've got to a point where I can't help but think that's the entire purpose of Gates and Buffett's rhetoric, to protect the rest of their class and provide a defence against the dismantling of capitalism.

Click to shrink...

It's awfully weird of Buffett and Gates to repeatedly say "we're not being taxed enough" if their goal is to obfuscate from the tax code for all their other, shittier billionaire peers. Especially Buffett who has been saying this since long before any real socialist movement existed outside of college campuses, internet message boards and fringe third parties.

I don't think a thread called "in defense of Billionaires" needs to exist. Bill Gates and Warren Buffett don't need me or anyone else to cape for them. But if we're going to come at them, we can at least go after the ones who are actively throwing their money against changes to the tax code.

 

[BAD]

Irrespective of how much taxes rich people should pay, this is a really dumb take because Gates is spending loads of money to help other countries. If you just taxed that into the US system no benefit would go to other countries.

So unless you're also proposing a global taxation system along with that, there not really much point in your proposal.

Click to shrink...

This doesn't make sense. The wealth accumulation and wealth inequality of the USA is important to address.

The notion that programs and regulations benefitting millions in the USA as workers or through better funded assistance and healthcare in a properly taxed economy, would be less people significantly benefitting than the number who benefit for singular philanthropy efforts chosen at will by Billionaires is... misguided.

Billionaires are not doing more good through their relatively small philanthropy than the whole USA would experience from them and their companies being properly taxed and regulated.

Add to this, the USA does give at least tens of billions in foreign aid and would potentially be able to do more if sufficient leadership and regulation were in place.

Frankly, there's just no argument for letting billionaires keep control of so much wealth and letting their businesses that fueled it continue the exploitation it took to get here.

 

[Deleted member 4783]

People would begin to realize what net worth means, hopefully.

But theoretically, if we took the global net worth of all billionaires and assumed that it was tangible and could be utilized to fund...whatever. You'd have $8 trillion dollars. Remember, that is on a global basis. So, eating them all would equate to an appetizer.

Click to shrink...

Ah yes, the classic "IT'S NOT LIQUIDITY" defense.

 

[-COOLIO-]

They shouldn't exist. Tax so no one has more than $999 million to their name.

If you have $999,000,000 you don't need any more. You maxed out your level cap. Just be happy and enjoy life.

Click to shrink...

yup

 

[BAD]

It's awfully weird of Buffett and Gates to repeatedly say "we're not being taxed enough" if their goal is to obfuscate from the tax code for all their other, shittier billionaire peers. Especially Buffett who has been saying this since long before any real socialist movement existed outside of college campuses, internet message boards and fringe third parties.

I don't think a thread called "in defense of Billionaires" needs to exist. Bill Gates and Warren Buffett don't need me or anyone else to cape for them. But if we're going to come at them, we can at least go after the ones who are actively throwing their money against changes to the tax code.

Click to shrink...

Gates and Buffet are not better people just because they got themselves comfortable enough to never struggle and then are willing to give back portions they got through exploitation. Gates even is not as receptive as we'd hope. He was called out just last year for being coy about supporting someone like Elizabeth Warren specifically because he thought her taxes would be too high.

But if we are being picky, there's plenty of "bad" billionaires in the OP headlines. I didn't go after Buffet or Gates specifically, but I don't consider them better for saying they'll give back some of what they leveraged out of the little guys.

 

[LastCaress]

They shouldn't exist. Tax so no one has more than $999 million to their name.

If you have $999,000,000 you don't need any more. You maxed out your level cap. Just be happy and enjoy life.

Click to shrink...

I don't know where the line should be drawn, but let's at least do something. Sure let's start at 999 million, that's already obscene, and work our way downwards.

 

[Bio]

There's no defense, really. The only thing billionaires can do to make their egregious abuse of capitalism "right" is take the Bill Gates approach, but do it earlier and more often.

For all of Twitter's problems, Jack Dorsey seems to be trying in that regard.

Click to shrink...

The only morally acceptable thing for a billionaire to do is to give away a minimum of 95% of their wealth immediately. Any billionaire who doesn't is complete and utter trash.

Bill Gates shouldn't get to dictate medical or climate policy just because he's obscenely wealthy.