Trying to pull a gun on someone robbing you is a great way to get stabbed.
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In case people are considering it, please don't buy a gun.
- Thread starter ItWasMeantToBe19
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Trying to pull a gun on someone robbing you is a great way to get stabbed.
my statistical chances of getting shot increase if I keep a gun inside the house
I'd much rather keep a baseball bat under my bed
I'd much rather keep a baseball bat under my bed
There is obviously some correlation here between suicide and standard of living but it's not an overwhelming correlation (clearly ignore many of the lower end countries as they're dictatorships/authoritarian nations (eg, Saudi Arabia) that could be falsifying data).
List of countries by suicide rate - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Meanwhile, I feel very confident in arguing that if women have way more guns lying around, the suicide rate will explode considering the amount of failed suicide attempts from women each year in the United States.
Maybe it would, maybe not. That's speculation. I maintain that improving the conditions to the point that they reduce the number of people who feel suicidal is a far more important endeavor, and regardless, we live in too uncertain and dangerous times for us to allow one extremist faction take full control of this country's huge arsenal of weapons.
I don't think i'll ever own a gun...
Yet, my dad has a freaking tazer and a crossbow under his bed hahaha. Those items have never been out of his bed once.... so imagine spending extra for $$$ for a gun.
Yet, my dad has a freaking tazer and a crossbow under his bed hahaha. Those items have never been out of his bed once.... so imagine spending extra for $$$ for a gun.
You are projecting your ideas of what gun owners think onto most left/BIPOC gun owners. Anyone who trains with firearms knows full well they aren't John Wick - probably better than most of this board who doesn't know the difference between a semi-auto and a machine gun.
There are plenty of real situations (read the Katrina one I posted above) where society goes south, no cops are around, and white vigilantes take advantages of that situation to kill black people. Often it's a roving group of 4-5 hillbillies or something like that. You think that 4-5 hillbillies can't be stopped by a family of 2 with some guns? They absolutely will leave and go find a less threatening target.
Again, you are projecting what you think gun owners think they are capable of. If someone breaks into your house and you hear the door break open. It is entirely possible to close your upstairs bedroom door, lock it, call the cops, and then aim at the door and hope they just take things and leave, but also be ready to defend yourself. "Just give them what they want!" - sounds great until you read a dozen stories in your city alone of women getting assaulted and raped in home invasions.
The privilege on this forum is so real.
There's nothing responsible about buying a gun.
'Sheltered' because we do not own guns.. ok
Honestly, 15-20 feet with a knife is faster than most people can draw and shoot.
I'm very much against guns.
But seeing what's happening in the US, the failure to control guns, means that I think there's people who will, legitimately, need to protect themselves and you can't fight people who have guns with ideas and a metal pole.
But seeing what's happening in the US, the failure to control guns, means that I think there's people who will, legitimately, need to protect themselves and you can't fight people who have guns with ideas and a metal pole.
i know it's easy for me to say, in the U.K., but there is now way to own a gun responsibly
it's designed to kill people
you don't want to kill people
have you ever been robbed at knifepoint, or raped at knifepoint, or anything at knifepoint? I haven't, but I'm certainly not going to tell someone they can't arm themselves after going through an experience like that... same goes for anyone feeling scared about white terrorism in the US.
The fact that you equate what I'm saying to a "John Wick" scenario tells me you're not even trying to understand what I'm saying. Go read the links I've posted. That's my god damned evidence. It's already happened where groups of tiki torch whites got froggy and found out the hard way that SOME Negroes will fight the fuck back. I know the risks of injury/death when storing a firearm at home. Did you know those risks rise and fall depending on method of storage? I'm not advocating store it under the couch...
I'll take my gun over your spreadsheet when these bigots stop playing and decide to "do something" about the "bad" neighborhoods.
First I empathize with any one suffering from depression and having to balance out those thoughts. I lost someone very close to me from a self inflicted gun shot to the head.
I am also a gun owner and advocate of being prepared. I live(d) in West Philly, 2 blocks from where MOVE happened and if the government can bomb their own people in the 4th largest city in America, you better damn well be ready for what most of us hope never happens. Less we forget during the riots, there were armed "citizens" walking around Philly protecting Target Store and Walmarts.
The biggest problem are folks not having proper gun training and background checks. Its too reductive and dismissive to say "guns don't kill people, people kill people" but there are people and then there are untrained, know-it-alls that cant be bothered to learn about or take seriously firearm ownership. There is a lack of respect for a device that sole purpose is to injure and expire a person and that's when the bad things happen.
I can respect anti-gun owners, but as the son of a Panther I humbly disagree.
I am also a gun owner and advocate of being prepared. I live(d) in West Philly, 2 blocks from where MOVE happened and if the government can bomb their own people in the 4th largest city in America, you better damn well be ready for what most of us hope never happens. Less we forget during the riots, there were armed "citizens" walking around Philly protecting Target Store and Walmarts.
The biggest problem are folks not having proper gun training and background checks. Its too reductive and dismissive to say "guns don't kill people, people kill people" but there are people and then there are untrained, know-it-alls that cant be bothered to learn about or take seriously firearm ownership. There is a lack of respect for a device that sole purpose is to injure and expire a person and that's when the bad things happen.
I can respect anti-gun owners, but as the son of a Panther I humbly disagree.
Sorry to hear! Nothing increases your risk of getting shot as much as buying your own weapon. Accidents are very common, and very dangerous.
If somebody really wanted to kill themselves they can choose other ways other than shooting themselves with a gun.
I understand that a gun gets a higher risk of suicide, but in my neighborhood there are a risk of break-ins recently. Most likely those who break in will be packing a gun as well.
My thing is, if someone who is breaking in has a gun and you don't have one, you kind of put in a spot of they may shoot you to avoid witnesses.
Sure you could put an alarm system in, but then you may not be able to afford one where is buying one gun would be cheaper in Long battle.
There are a lot of pros and cons in the United States for buying and owning a gun. If guns were illegal or restricted then I would say I agree no guns in house, but everybody including the criminal themselves have a gun.
This is kind of a both sides argument that only the United States can have because of those saturation of guns in the country and how the law is Pro guns in the first place.
There is obviously some correlation here between suicide and standard of living but it's not an overwhelming correlation (clearly ignore many of the lower end countries as they're dictatorships/authoritarian nations (eg, Saudi Arabia) that could be falsifying data).
List of countries by suicide rate - Wikipedia
Meanwhile, I feel very confident in arguing that if women have way more guns lying around, the suicide rate will explode considering the amount of failed suicide attempts from women each year in the United States.
You're argument is flawed considering this pattern is consistent in many parts of the world.
The suicide gap: Why men are more likely to kill themselves - Healthy Debate
Suicide is often thought of as a gender-neutral issue, but in reality, three times as many Canadian men than women kill themselves every year.
healthydebate.ca
It sounds like you want to live in a perfect world. "Well if we just policed the police then all problems are solved and no need for guns". Except how does that help the here and now, the reality? If an entire angry mob is coming to your house to kill you a gun will do you no good and I think anyone will recognize that. But what is your solution? To ask them politely to stop breaking down your door? Beg them not to kill you even though they already intend to apparently? With a gun the power is more in your favor and you can at least try and take some out with you.
For me, it doesn't make sense to buy a gun. I live in a neighborhood with mostly old people, crime is extremely low (any sort of crime) and I'm white.
Having said that, I am not going to say that others shouldn't have one. I am almost always against gun ownership, but those laws won't do anything to ridwhite racist people from arming themselves.
Having said that, I am not going to say that others shouldn't have one. I am almost always against gun ownership, but those laws won't do anything to rid
Are serious suggesting black people are better off begging white people to not kill them rather than defend themselves?
yo this forum.
OP:
1. Yes, it will
2. If someone is suicidal, they'll find a way
3. You may be projecting / stereotyping here
If you are reaching for a once in a lifetime situation(Katrina and being confronted by 4 hillbillies) to justify a lifetime of heightened risks of gun ownership, I'm not sure you are making the case you think.
Much more likely is the story of the person I knew who's family kept a gun at home in a safe and the son hit a bought of depression over a number of things, found the safe code through some sleuthing and shot himself in the head at a local grocery store while on the phone with his ex. Or the kid down the street from me growing up that found daddy's gun when they were playing cops and robbers with some other kids and their was a bullet in the chamber and he shot and paralyzed another kid. Or the friend I worked with who's uncle, In another bought of depression and desperation, took his son's hunting rifle from his son's home and killed him and his girlfriend in some contorted attempt to get insurance money by framing a break in. Or the shootout that occurred in a bar I worked at because someone, who I am sure thought they had their gun for self defense, lost his temper and pulled it out on someone else who also had a gun, they started shooting and next thing you know multiple people were in the hospital and some in critical condition, one dead.
And as for Katrina, I could tell you any number of stories, like my aunt and uncle, who were being shot at in a hospital by some looters looking for medication to steal. A gun wasn't going to help them but running and sealing off a ward where hand ventilated patients were did. A gun would have not in anyway helped that situation.
Like I said, I'm personally in support of gun ownership under certain circumstances, including toward the state violence against minorities, but from my experience and all the good faith research I have done, unless it is done in a certain context, you are simply heightening your risk of harm, not alleviating it
A gun is probably cheaper than a crossbow and a taser though. Thats no reason for buying one, but you can get yourself a pistol for dirt cheap. How much does a home defense crossbow go for these days?
I imagine non-Americans shaking their heads in this thread.
There are tons of studies that show families members are way more likely to die with gun owners
There are tons of studies that show families members are way more likely to die with gun owners
I do not give a single flying fuck how YOU want to see it channeled, lmao. You really think with me and my family having the legitimate concern about mobs of angry white men and women murdering us in a country with a long tradition of mobs of angry white men and women murdering us that we supposed to stop and give pause to how YOU want us to channel our concerns?
You don't comprehend how ridiculously condescending and patronizing that comes across?
Let me be clear: I'm not advocating going out and doing shit. Nope. I'm gonna work and take care of my family. But if someone determined to bring that tiki torch capiitol building shit to me and mine then I'm doing to defend. Nothing more, nothing less.
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OP, this sounds like the thread should have been "don't own a gun if you're depressed."
Also, women are less likely to choose methods like gunshots for suicide, so I'm not sure why you're singling out liberal women.
I imagine most revolutionaries think being armed is important, hence the leftists
And on the liberal end, some people are just more dogmatic about their beliefs.
I think most humans in general are far more fluid on a case-by-case basis, and don't fit within that dogma all the time.
Also, women are less likely to choose methods like gunshots for suicide, so I'm not sure why you're singling out liberal women.
I imagine most revolutionaries think being armed is important, hence the leftists
And on the liberal end, some people are just more dogmatic about their beliefs.
I think most humans in general are far more fluid on a case-by-case basis, and don't fit within that dogma all the time.
In one study (of 4000 patients), men were recorded to have more suicidal intent, which is theorised as the reason why they choose guns as they are so final.
While women do attempt it more (1.2 times in the US as likely from what I can see), men choose more violent means overall not limited to guns.
There's no doubt that a gun is an efficient killing device, but we shouldn't overlook the fact that the violence is an inherent thing to the suicidal process of these men.
I think that point is important to clarify here: men kill themselves more not because they shoot themselves, but because they have more violent tendencies and intent when it comes to suicide which leads them to using guns.
This needs to be acknowledged directly, there are many important conversations that need to be had surrounding the root issues.
Ain't like their countries willing to let black folks in as a safe haven so they can kick rocks too as far as I'm concerned.
Man, I gotta leave this thread before I really go in on somebody. Everyone should read this Mammoth Jones post, these books, watch some fucking civil rights documentaries, and maybe talk to a black friend's mom or dad who grew up in the 1950's (like my dad did) before saying shit like...
post by Mammoth Jones (fuck the quotes because people need to see the covers of these books)
Good. They get to carry their shit and make statements. So should we. I'll never advocate aggressive violence. But defense? 100%.
I truly believe historical context is required to really discuss this subject properly. Cause a lot of folks aren't taught that black people in America did fight back with guns against racist violence and in many cases prevailed. But we can't go teaching black folks that shooting racists caused other racists to fall the fuck back when they came around in their pickup trucks starting shit.
So I consider these required reading for this subject.
post by Mammoth Jones (fuck the quotes because people need to see the covers of these books)
Good. They get to carry their shit and make statements. So should we. I'll never advocate aggressive violence. But defense? 100%.
I truly believe historical context is required to really discuss this subject properly. Cause a lot of folks aren't taught that black people in America did fight back with guns against racist violence and in many cases prevailed. But we can't go teaching black folks that shooting racists caused other racists to fall the fuck back when they came around in their pickup trucks starting shit.
So I consider these required reading for this subject.
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Responsible and gun owner is like an ecological coal plant.
Doesn't the stats go up on someone or something getting smashed with that bat?
To those saying more background checks would be enough, it wouldn't have stopped me when I tried to commit suicide twice in a month a few years ago. It'd stop me now but not back then. I first used a knife and failed, then after they released me I tried again by ODing on pain medication but failed again. If I had a gun I wouldn't be here. Guess I'm glad I oppose guns morally.
I personally won't get a gun as I do struggle with depression. All it takes is one bad day and an irrational thought to shoot myself. Don't have a similar fear with other objects.
If we ever get to a civil war type of situation (which I for sure hope not), if I got shot by an someone and die, I'll just die. I don't want to live in a world that the only option to survive is to fight. These are just hypotheticals though. I don't think that will happen in my life time, personally.
If we ever get to a civil war type of situation (which I for sure hope not), if I got shot by an someone and die, I'll just die. I don't want to live in a world that the only option to survive is to fight. These are just hypotheticals though. I don't think that will happen in my life time, personally.
Once in a lifetime? Are you serious? Look at the posts in here from POC and all of the sources Mammoth Jones posted. This is regular reality for many POC.
And what does it matter if it's "once in a lifetime?" If that moment is the moment where you lose your life and watch your family die or you live, that moment is worth it. Fuck. Let's just argue that seatbelts aren't needed because it's only a few times in your life, if ever, you will need them. Life insurance too! Why lock your doors while we're at it? Most people never will have someone try to open it!
Obviously those stupid examples I gave don't carry with it a risk of self-harm. This is true. Which is why I advocate that anyone who owns a gun takes it VERY seriously. I have had over 30 hours of training, my guns are double locked, ammo separated. Any time I touch them, I go through a whole process to make sure they are safe to move and unloaded and even then, I will never point it at something that I care about.
Those stories are tragic that you shared. I know many of those too. I also know many tragic stories about other methods of death and self-harm that have nothing to do with guns. We all should strive for a better value of life. But to plug your ears to the experiences in this country and just pretend they'll go away or tell people that are regularly threatened "Statistically you'll probably never need it but one time when your life depends on it." is peak privilege.
I've been anti-gun for some time now so I'm not going to double back and buy a gun especially with a young child at home and another on the way. I have however loaded up on pepper spray and have no problems using it
Ah yes, and since there is always an increased risk of dying in a car if you drive then there are no responsible drivers.
This is such a ridiculous statement.
So much truth to this. Look I get it, guns are dangerous and it should not even be a thing. But it is in this country. Until the day where gun is banned in the USA, I can totally sympathize that a PoC who is mentally fit would want to own one.
That's literally exactly what was said. I'm so astounded at that dumb shit.
That mentality explains how the compromise of 1877 happened. And black people been paying for it ever since...
OP
OP
Seatbelts don't heighten you and your friends/families day to day risk of death by having them, what an absurd comparison.
This thread is a screaming example of liberals not listening to POC's experiences IMO while shouting them down with "data."
Did you read my entire post where I acknowledged that? If you want to selectively pick out lines though and ignore the experiences of people on here, go ahead.
Relevant to this discussion, I'm reminded of the "opportunity" I had to sit down with an open white supremacist in college. A relative of a good friend. About an hour-long conversation, maybe I'll write more about it in the future. But overall, I walked away with three takes I'd always suspected (that most Black people have always suspected).
1) A lot of these people simply can't be reached. This was true 15 years ago, and it feels truer today.
2) A lot of white supremacists who arm themselves really, truly believe in the idea of an impending race war. It's like their Armageddon.
3) The one thing that keeps groups of white supremacists from hopping in their trucks, riding into Black neighborhoods, and terrorizing Black folks (like they used to back in the day) is not moral conflict; it's not fear of God or the law (we were reminded two weeks ago how easily white supremacists can twist both). No, it's the perceived fear that all Black people are armed, OP, and will retaliate.
And it's fucking scary. Think about it, really think about it, what it must feel like to be a Black person living in this society and KNOWING this, and being told by your white allies not to protect yourselves against this reality.
Like I said, I don't own a gun. I make that choice. But fuck if I'm going to tell another Black person not to, or imply that their fears are unfounded.
1) A lot of these people simply can't be reached. This was true 15 years ago, and it feels truer today.
2) A lot of white supremacists who arm themselves really, truly believe in the idea of an impending race war. It's like their Armageddon.
3) The one thing that keeps groups of white supremacists from hopping in their trucks, riding into Black neighborhoods, and terrorizing Black folks (like they used to back in the day) is not moral conflict; it's not fear of God or the law (we were reminded two weeks ago how easily white supremacists can twist both). No, it's the perceived fear that all Black people are armed, OP, and will retaliate.
And it's fucking scary. Think about it, really think about it, what it must feel like to be a Black person living in this society and KNOWING this, and being told by your white allies not to protect yourselves against this reality.
Like I said, I don't own a gun. I make that choice. But fuck if I'm going to tell another Black person not to, or imply that their fears are unfounded.
And some of us grew up in more rural areas, or around guns and have used them since we were kids, so seeing people with no gun experience being so aghast about owning them seems weird. Like why would we take gun advice from a person who has never used a gun?
You can be liberal and pro-gun. It's ok to think people should have guns but we should also have background check laws, etc.
I completely agree that you shouldn't ever own a gun. 100% with you on that. But for me? My situation is a bit different. The history of my situation is vastly different. That's all I'm trying to articulate.
yup, sometimes I feel like posts here are mostly just for white folks. Like, you saying I shouldn't own a gun meanwhile racists are armed to the teeth. I hate guns but damn, love and hugs ain't gonna protect us from crazy racists.
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