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Deleted member 3812

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Oct 25, 2017
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WaPo is reporting that the Treasury Department has totally reversed their previous statement that beneficiaries of Social Security who typically do not file a tax return would need to file tax return in order to get coronavirus payment, now they're saying they do NOT need to file a tax return:


Social Security recipients who don't usually file tax returns will automatically get $1,200 payments, Treasury says in reversal
Most high school seniors and college students still won't get any money at all.

The Treasury announced late Wednesday that Social Security beneficiaries who typically do not file a tax return will automatically get the $1,200 payment.

The announcement is a reversal from earlier in the week when the Internal Revenue Service said everyone would need to file some sort of tax return in order to qualify for the payments. Democrats and some Republicans criticized the IRS for requiring so many extra hurdles for this vulnerable population to get aid when the government already has their information on file.

The reversal came as the Trump administration tries to rapidly get stimulus payments out to Americans in the face of the quickest economic decline in modern history.

"Social Security recipients who are not typically required to file a tax return need to take no action, and will receive their payment directly to their bank account," said Treasury Secretary Steven T. Mnuchin.

The $2.2 trillion aid legislation, passed in response to the coronavirus pandemic, directed the Treasury to look at Americans' 2019 or 2018 tax returns to determine if they are eligible for a payment. But the law also said Treasury should look at Social Security data for seniors and the disabled.

Criticism poured in after the IRS posted a notice on its website on Monday instructing Social Security recipients who do not normally send in a return to file a "simple" tax return, which would be available soon.

More than 15 million Americans on Social Security do not file an annual tax return because their income is so low, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.
 

shnurgleton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,864
Boston
Social security recipients and retirees don't need a stimulus check, since they aren't really affected by the economic downturn. Workers are the ones who should be being protected, and they are being inadequately so by this bill
 
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Deleted member 3812

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Social security recipients and retirees don't need a stimulus check, since they aren't really affected by the economic downturn. Workers are the ones who should be being protected, and they are being inadequately so by this bill

This isn't entirely correct, I'm on Social Security Disability Insurance and I am a single person living in annual poverty because that is the only income I receive, so this payment would help me.
 

Heromanz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,202
Social security recipients and retirees don't need a stimulus check, since they aren't really affected by the economic downturn. Workers are the ones who should be being protected, and they are being inadequately so by this bill
They are totally affected many of them can support themselves on social security and meet outside work to get by. Everyone should get a check.
 

jb1234

Very low key
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,224
Social security recipients and retirees don't need a stimulus check, since they aren't really affected by the economic downturn. Workers are the ones who should be being protected, and they are being inadequately so by this bill

We're all affected. And people on SS get jackshit to live on.
 
Oct 30, 2017
3,629
Social security recipients and retirees don't need a stimulus check, since they aren't really affected by the economic downturn. Workers are the ones who should be being protected, and they are being inadequately so by this bill

This is incorrect. Many people who received Social Security also need to work because it's not enough. My dad is over 70 and receives social security and but still works full time, otherwise, he won't have enough money for him and my mother.

He's been furloughed and it's hurting him a lot.
 

shnurgleton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,864
Boston
This isn't entirely correct, I'm on Social Security Disability Insurance and I am a single person living in annual poverty because that is the only income I receive, so this payment would help me.
It would help you but you should be being helped more already, which I think we would agree on. If the object of the stimulus is to cover the economic losses resulting from covid, then it should be targeting those who are being most affected as a result of covid, which are workers and small business
 

andymcc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,271
Columbus, OH
Social security recipients and retirees don't need a stimulus check, since they aren't really affected by the economic downturn. Workers are the ones who should be being protected, and they are being inadequately so by this bill

assuming they're just not saving the money, wouldn't the idea be they'd immediately spend thus putting money back into the economy?
 

Stooge

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,136
This is only happening for electoral reasons for Trump.

But good. They need it
 

Stooge

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,136
They're less likely to spend because this is just extra money on top of what they already earn, not a replacement for money they are suddenly not earning

How many retirees who have no income other than SS do you know?

Because people who only get SS and no other income to report from investments or dispersals from IRAs/pensions are poor as fuck.

Also, I don't think you understand how recessions work. Everyone is effected by them
 

SupremeWu

Banned
Dec 19, 2017
2,856
It would help you but you should be being helped more already, which I think we would agree on. If the object of the stimulus is to cover the economic losses resulting from covid, then it should be targeting those who are being most affected as a result of covid, which are workers and small business

Folks on social security are affected like anyone else in society when 80 percent of it shuts down. They also cannot get basic necessities that are being hoarded, etc
 

MagicDoogies

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,047
It would help you but you should be being helped more already, which I think we would agree on. If the object of the stimulus is to cover the economic losses resulting from covid, then it should be targeting those who are being most affected as a result of covid, which are workers and small business

I just don't really care about this. Like so what if they get it? Great for them. College kids got screwed over hard core because they fit in both technicalities that disqualify them. Why is it that whenever we do something we always have to find ways to exclude people for arbitrary reasons?
 

shnurgleton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,864
Boston
How many retirees who have no income other than SS do you know?

Because people who only get SS and no other income to report from investments or dispersals from IRAs/pensions are poor as fuck.
Yes. This is evidence of the weakness of SS, which hasn't been adjusted for years. Obviously it should be adjusted up. It would be great if they used this stimulus bill as an opportunity to adjust up SS benefits, and while we're at it, healthcare. If the object of this bill is solely to replace economic losses due to covid though, it's not well targeted
 

Android Sophia

The Absolute Sword
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,096
They're less likely to spend because this is just extra money on top of what they already earn, not a replacement for money they are suddenly not earning

Many people on social security have limitations in regards to how much they can earn, especially the disabled. So in addition to being among some of the poorest people in our country, they can't exactly save it even if they wanted to.
 

Deleted member 43

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Oct 24, 2017
9,271
Yes. This is evidence of the weakness of SS, which hasn't been adjusted for years. Obviously it should be adjusted up. It would be great if they used this stimulus bill as an opportunity to adjust up SS benefits, and while we're at it, healthcare. If the object of this bill is solely to replace economic losses due to covid though, it's not well targeted
As has been said, a lot of workers are on Social Security. They need relief just like everyone else. No one receiving the stimulus is getting it at the expense of anyone else not receiving it.
 

Stooge

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,136
Yes. This is evidence of the weakness of SS, which hasn't been adjusted for years. Obviously it should be adjusted up. It would be great if they used this stimulus bill as an opportunity to adjust up SS benefits, and while we're at it, healthcare. If the object of this bill is solely to replace economic losses due to covid though, it's not well targeted

But you just said they are less likely to spend. Which isn't true.

The point here is to replace some lost income but also economic stimulus
 

Mett

Member
Oct 29, 2017
673
Social security recipients and retirees don't need a stimulus check, since they aren't really affected by the economic downturn. Workers are the ones who should be being protected, and they are being inadequately so by this bill

Neither do these big corporations but they sure as shit get some, so why not some of the poorer Americans.

Not to mention having to buy higher priced items with what little we have cause people have depleted the stock of most everything.
 

SupremeWu

Banned
Dec 19, 2017
2,856
As has been said, a lot of workers are on Social Security. They need relief just like everyone else. No one receiving the stimulus is getting it at the expense of anyone else not receiving it.

This is unfortunately not how people think although they should start. People instead think 'Why should my neighbor and I each get something, when I deserve everything and they deserve nothing'
 

Sawneeks

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,842
This won't cause horrible confusion and stress/anxiety for people, no sir.

Glad they changed it because the original position was awful but this should've been it all along. Just hope the right word gets out.
 

shnurgleton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,864
Boston
Neither do these big corporations but they sure as shit get some, so why not some of the poorer Americans.
Agreed. It would be much better to use the stimulus to help workers as well as lift people out of poverty. Keeping workers and small businesses afloat are a big part of making this sustainable. If we're going to have to bail out big businesses, we should be at least partially nationalizing them
 
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Deleted member 3812

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Many people on social security have limitations in regards to how much they can earn, especially the disabled. So in addition to being among some of the poorest people in our country, they can't exactly save it even if they wanted to.

Absolutely correct. SSDI beneficiaries can only have a specific amount saved, and if you go over that amount, you risk losing all SSDI benefits.

EDIT: I was told this by a Social Security benefits person, apparently this is not correct and only applies to SSI recipients, not SSDI.
 
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jb1234

Very low key
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,224
Absolutely correct. SSDI beneficiaries can only have a specific amount saved, and if you go over that amount, you risk losing all SSDI benefits.

SSDI is different from SSI in that I can have as much money in my savings account as I want, as long as I didn't earn it from income (which becomes a whole different issue). Your assets can continue to accrue money, you can receive inheritance, no issue. But SSI is much more restricted. I was on it for a long time and it could be infuriating.
 

fontguy

Avenger
Oct 8, 2018
16,150
Yes. This is evidence of the weakness of SS, which hasn't been adjusted for years. Obviously it should be adjusted up. It would be great if they used this stimulus bill as an opportunity to adjust up SS benefits, and while we're at it, healthcare. If the object of this bill is solely to replace economic losses due to covid though, it's not well targeted

"People on Social Security don't need this money."
"Here's why they actually do."
"I mean of course they need it, but they need more than this so they shouldn't get it."
 
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Deleted member 3812

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Oct 25, 2017
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SSDI is different from SSI in that I can have as much money in my savings account as I want, as long as I didn't earn it from income (which becomes a whole different issue). Your assets can continue to accrue money, you can receive inheritance, no issue. But SSI is much more restricted. I was on it for a long time and it could be infuriating.

As it was explained to me by a Social Security benefits person, I cannot have over a certain amount on SSDI.
 

greenbird

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Oct 25, 2017
3,094
Not to mention, if they weren't included, their purchasing power would be even more reduced compared to those who did receive it. And the gap between the poorest and most people would slightly increase. A punishment through no fault of their own.
 

Seraphis Cain

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,453
Absolutely correct. SSDI beneficiaries can only have a specific amount saved, and if you go over that amount, you risk losing all SSDI benefits.

Do you have a source for this? Legitimately asking, because my understanding has always been that SSDI doesn't have the savings limit that SSI has. Everything I've found in a quick search has said this:

Social Security disability (SSDI) and SSI disability are two separate disability benefit programs administered by the Social Security Administration (SSA). There are important distinctions between the two programs. Individuals who apply for Social Security disability are able to do so because their record of work activity has allowed them to become "insured" for SSDI benefits. Because SSDI is this type of benefit, a person's assets have nothing to do with their potential eligibility to draw and collect SSDI. In other words, whether you have $50 or $50,000 in the bank makes no difference to the SSA.

(Not that it's something I've ever had to personally worry about, as the ~$700/mo I get has never really allowed for much in the way of saving, but still.)
 
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Do you have a source for this? Legitimately asking, because my understanding has always been that SSDI doesn't have the savings limit that SSI has. Everything I've found in a quick search has said this:



(Not that it's something I've ever had to personally worry about, as the ~$700/mo I get has never really allowed for much in the way of saving, but still.)

I talked with a Social Security benefits person and that person told me there's a certain amount that if you go over on SSDI, you can risk losing benefits. Reading what you found, I see that the benefits person I talked with must've gotten SSDI confused with SSI.
 

Seraphis Cain

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Oct 25, 2017
4,453
I talked with a Social Security benefits person and that person told me there's a certain amount that if you go over on SSDI, you can risk losing benefits. Reading what you found, I see that the benefits person I talked with must've gotten SSDI confused with SSI.

Yeah, must have. And I suppose it kinda makes sense that SSI recipients aren't getting the stimulus, as that $1200 might potentially push them over the savings limit, while SSDI recipients don't have to worry about that. Not that I think that's right, of course.

And even if I don't have to worry about the stimulus affecting any kind of savings limit for SSDI, I'm still worried how it might affect my other benefits (SNAP, health insurance), which are affected by total assets. Gonna have to give my caseworker a call soon and check up on that.
 
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Deleted member 3812

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Yeah, must have. And I suppose it kinda makes sense that SSI recipients aren't getting the stimulus, as that $1200 might potentially push them over the savings limit, while SSDI recipients don't have to worry about that. Not that I think that's right, of course.

And even if I don't have to worry about the stimulus affecting any kind of savings limit for SSDI, I'm still worried how it might affect my other benefits (SNAP, health insurance), which are affected by total assets. Gonna have to give my caseworker a call soon and check up on that.

I'm on Medicare as an SSDI recipient, does Medicare have a savings limit?
 
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Deleted member 3812

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I don't think Medicare does, but (and I may be mistaken on this) I think state Medicaid does. I'm on both.

Huh, interesting, here in my state of Maryland, I'm ineligible for Medicaid because of what I get from SSDI which is bullshit because the calculator I used shows me being in poverty in my state as a single person.
 

Android Sophia

The Absolute Sword
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,096
I talked with a Social Security benefits person and that person told me there's a certain amount that if you go over on SSDI, you can risk losing benefits. Reading what you found, I see that the benefits person I talked with must've gotten SSDI confused with SSI.

Both SSDI and SSI have limits, but they're handled differently.

SSDI can earn so much in a month, and once you go over that, you're considered making "substantial gainful activity", and can lose your benefits if you're not on a trial work period. How much the SGA limit is differs depending on if you're blind or not. As long as you're under that limit, however, you're fine.

SSI instead takes away half of what you make (not counting the first $85 or so) from your SSI payments. You also have to stay below a specific asset limit. Once you make so much, you basically lose your SSI benefits.

SSDI generally gets more money than SSI, on that note.
 

jb1234

Very low key
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Oct 25, 2017
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I don't think Medicare does, but (and I may be mistaken on this) I think state Medicaid does. I'm on both.

Yeah, Medicaid does, Medicare doesn't. I'll need to make some calls too as I'm also on Section 8
Yeah, must have. And I suppose it kinda makes sense that SSI recipients aren't getting the stimulus, as that $1200 might potentially push them over the savings limit, while SSDI recipients don't have to worry about that. Not that I think that's right, of course.

And even if I don't have to worry about the stimulus affecting any kind of savings limit for SSDI, I'm still worried how it might affect my other benefits (SNAP, health insurance), which are affected by total assets. Gonna have to give my caseworker a call soon and check up on that.

Since it sounds like the stimulus check is being structured as a tax refund, you should be in the clear with benefits and stuff.
 

Seraphis Cain

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,453
Huh, interesting, here in my state of Maryland, I'm ineligible for Medicaid because of what I get from SSDI which is bullshit because the calculator I used shows me being in poverty in my state as a single person.

Yeah, that does sound like bullshit. I believe my eligibility comes from the fact that my SSDI monthly benefits are low (again, only ~$700/mo.) and I pay rent/bills that take up most of that amount (like ~$550/mo.). So that doesn't leave me much for other things.

Since it sounds like the stimulus check is being structured as a tax refund, you should be in the clear with benefits and stuff.

Ah, that's good to know, thanks.
 
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Deleted member 3812

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Oct 25, 2017
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Yeah, that does sound like bullshit. I believe my eligibility comes from the fact that my SSDI monthly benefits are low (again, only ~$700/mo.) and I pay rent/bills that take up most of that amount (like ~$550/mo.). So that doesn't leave me much for other things.

Same in my scenario, I get low SSDI payments despite the 2020 COLA increase which is a complete joke since cost of living is way higher than what I get from SSDI.
 

CDX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,476
Social security recipients and retirees don't need a stimulus check, since they aren't really affected by the economic downturn. Workers are the ones who should be being protected, and they are being inadequately so by this bill
A lot of retirees were barely able to get by before on just SS and now their food expenses suddenly went up.

Elderly are the most vulnerable to the virus, with some health professionals and Government officials suggesting they not leave the house at all.
Grocery stores now have limits on certain essential items. People that might shop for the elderly might not be able to purchase everything the elderly person needs in addition to everything they themselves need.
If an elderly person now uses Grocery Delivery, that now costs extra money.
At least at my local grocery stores everything cheep at the grocery store has been bought up, and continues to be bought up when restocked.
Some elderly like to coupon clip and shop at half a dozen stores for the best deals on each item, they can't do that anymore to the same degree.

this new reality could really strain the elderly that were already struggling.