Impeachment |OT|

[timedesk]

So the Impeachment trial won't officially end until after the State of the Union? If so I guess that is some microscopic win. I really hope this whole thing motivates people to vote against this administration. They have been so obviously corrupt, the fact that they are terrified to even let witnesses be heard has to mean something to people right?

 

[Wrestleman]

The whole point of this rushjob was to get him acquitted before the SOTU and now they don't even get that. Get fucked you syphilitic bronzer-drowned walrus.

 

[JCG]

Here's the thing: these people are partially fighting to preserve their ability to short-circuit fair elections.
Point being, we might be approaching a time when voting doesn't work anymore.

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Only way forward is to defeat the fuckery through sheer numbers. Doing nothing because it's unfair is equal to giving them everything.

If that time comes for real, then you might have a point. But right now, there's still a chance. Better not miss.

 

[Deleted member 8750]

(202) 748-8920

I've been trying for awhile and can't get in though

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Yeah, I got the same result.

 

[Volimar]

Between this and Brexit:

 

[ΑGITΩ]

Im really wondering how november will go at this rate. I consider myself a left leaning moderate, so Im definately not in trumps camp, but i listen to opinion pieces on both sides just to hear the perspective everyone comes from. This vote will definitely continue to rally the trump base and they will likely turn out in droves to vote. My concern is the democratic side will act fired up, but fail to show. As a Minority, i know hardly anyone is fired up by the current candidates. Though right now I support Yang, i know that voting for him in my primaries would be a throwaway vote, so Im leaning Sanders. Defeatists from this, will just think that Trump will cheat again and thus their vote wont matter, or another 2016 situtation, where everyone will jist assume everyone is voting against trump and just not vote at all.
I wasnt the biggest impeachment fan at first because i knew the above would likely happen, the right is "mad as hell" at the democrats. And of course, liberals are upset as well, the main difference is that republicans seem to have a better track record of actually going out to vote, than democrats are.

 

[sweetmini]

I think before this started the general consensus would be that the GOP would stick their head in the sand, pretend wrongdoing couldn't be proven, and acquit. The Bolton news forced their hand to instead say "alright he probably did it but abusing the office of the President to meddle with foreign governments to sway elections is actually totally fine" which is a much more disturbing result than many of us expected.

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For sure, for me, as an outsider, the precedent set means that now a POTUS can call for whatever favor he wants from abroad to help reelection, even if it's through bribery. It's a mighty fine power right there !

 

[Volimar]

Im really wondering how november will go at this rate. I consider myself a left leaning moderate, so Im definately not in trumps camp, but i listen to opinion pieces on both sides just to hear the perspective everyone comes from. This vote will definitely continue to rally the trump base and they will likely turn out in droves to vote. My concern is the democratic side will act fired up, but fail to show. As a Minority, i know hardly anyone is fired up by the current candidates. Though right now I support Yang, i know that voting for him in my primaries would be a throwaway vote, so Im leaning Sanders. Defeatists from this, will just think that Trump will cheat again and thus their vote wont matter, or another 2016 situtation, where everyone will jist assume everyone is voting against trump and just not vote at all.
I wasnt the biggest impeachment fan at first because i knew the above would likely happen, the right is "mad as hell" at the democrats. And of course, liberals are upset as well, the main difference is that republicans seem to have a better track record of actually going out to vote, than democrats are.

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Come back to these questions once the primaries are over.

 

[Deleted member 44129]

Rise of Fascism, the end of America as a free country, Brexit handing the UK to The far right and becoming a lapdog to Trump, Climate Change..... Hey at least if i die of the Coronavirus i get an easy out.

Fuck this timeline.

 

[Rover]

They gave it a shot, but it wasn't good enough.

The reason it was not good enough is because this process , like many others in our government, is fundamentally broken. And sometimes there isn't a "process" at all to deal with the problems like this.

I mean, Trump's defense team technically had some sound arguments among their awful ones, using a big arsenal of lawyer tactics to get this dismissed. The case was "unfair", moved "too fast", and was a little undercooked.

The problem that Schiff and the House managers presented was more of an emotional plea that things are fucked up. There is a massive bug in that the President can stonewall an investigation indefinitely, and then use that hobbled case as a legal defense of unfairness). It is alarming, but not something that impeachment was very likely to solve. Could you say that our entire justice system gets reformed, even if the Senate voted to remove? No, I don't think so - and it would be curing a symptom, and not the disease.

These are Nixon's people. These are Reagan's people. They have spent decades, not repenting for past sins, but refining their process for getting away with it next time. So that their guy can't be taken down again. They started Fox News specifically for this purpose.

I feel resolved to make sure that we are heard this coming election. It's in our hands, and we cannot be asleep at the wheel again.

 

[SaintBowWow]

Here's the thing: these people are partially fighting to preserve their ability to short-circuit fair elections.
Point being, we might be approaching a time when voting doesn't work anymore.

Click to shrink...

Treat 2020 like it's your last chance to prevent this from happening. Volunteer, canvas, phone bank, do whatever you can. If don't live in a swing state then volunteer to phone bank for one or even drive to one for canvassing if you can.

 

[Hollywood Duo]

All I have to say if this doesn't wake up the youth voters to participate in the process then we might as well turn the lights out.
November should be a total blow out in the Dems favor.

 

[Kirblar]

They gave it a shot, but it wasn't good enough.

The reason it was not good enough is because this process , like many others in our government, is fundamentally broken. And sometimes there isn't a "process" at all to deal with the problems like this.

I mean, Trump's defense team technically had some sound arguments among their awful ones, using a big arsenal of lawyer tactics to get this dismissed. The case was "unfair", moved "too fast", and was a little undercooked.

The problem that Schiff and the House managers presented was more of an emotional plea that things are fucked up. There is a massive bug in that the President can stonewall an investigation indefinitely, and then use that hobbled case as a legal defense of unfairness). It is alarming, but not something that impeachment was very likely to solve. Could you say that our entire justice system gets reformed, even if the Senate voted to remove? No, I don't think so - and it would be curing a symptom, and not the disease.

These are Nixon's people. These are Reagan's people. They have spent decades, not repenting for past sins, but refining their process for getting away with it next time. So that their guy can't be taken down again. They started Fox News specifically for this purpose.

I feel resolved to make sure that we are heard this coming election. It's in our hands, and we cannot be asleep at the wheel again.

Click to shrink...

Forget where I saw this via twitter (either in my feed or in a thread here) but "not reforming the US government after 1860 was a massive mistake" seems to be a very accurate take.

 

[Thorn]

Forget where I saw this via twitter (either in my feed or in a thread here) but "not reforming the US government after 1860 was a massive mistake" seems to be a very accurate take.

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We didn't punish the south enough either.

 

[Deleted member 8750]

Treat 2020 like it's your last chance to prevent this from happening. Volunteer, canvas, phone bank, do whatever you can. If don't live in a swing state then volunteer to phone bank for one or even drive to one for canvassing if you can.

Click to shrink...

I was wondering if we could try and make a thread on here that has some tips and resources on what all we could do leading up the election. I'm in Georgia so I think there's a real possibility of making a difference here. I'm not sure where to begin. I've always voted but never done much political action before.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

I feel dejected tbh.

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Did you expect a different result?

 

[Contramann]

Faith. It never abandons you

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This. Don't lose hope. Go vote!

 

[XMonkey]

So yeah this looks terrible for the GOP, but why would optics matter when you can rig the next election?

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You guys know that election 2020 will be rigged as fuck right?

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Ok, and so you want us to what? Not vote? That seems to be the only conclusion if you follow your thinking through. Why bother if it's all rigged, right?

So tell us all something, if the GOP can rig elections en-masse and at-will why didn't they in 2018? GOP members could still have their cushy jobs! They could have kept all these crimes under wraps! Trump could have entirely prevented his own impeachment! Be assured, his giant ego cares very much about the legacy he'll have and being only the 3rd impeached President likely eats at him everyday. But this didn't happen. So, why not?

 

[L.E.D.]

They gave it a shot, but it wasn't good enough.

The reason it was not good enough is because this process , like many others in our government, is fundamentally broken. And sometimes there isn't a "process" at all to deal with the problems like this.

I mean, Trump's defense team technically had some sound arguments among their awful ones, using a big arsenal of lawyer tactics to get this dismissed. The case was "unfair", moved "too fast", and was a little undercooked.

The problem that Schiff and the House managers presented was more of an emotional plea that things are fucked up. There is a massive bug in that the President can stonewall an investigation indefinitely, and then use that hobbled case as a legal defense of unfairness). It is alarming, but not something that impeachment was very likely to solve. Could you say that our entire justice system gets reformed, even if the Senate voted to remove? No, I don't think so - and it would be curing a symptom, and not the disease.

These are Nixon's people. These are Reagan's people. They have spent decades, not repenting for past sins, but refining their process for getting away with it next time. So that their guy can't be taken down again. They started Fox News specifically for this purpose.

I feel resolved to make sure that we are heard this coming election. It's in our hands, and we cannot be asleep at the wheel again.

Click to shrink...

Anyone expecting anything but this outcome was insane. We all new this would happen, the question becomes what do we to fix this. Trump now has carte blanche to do whatever he wants to now with zero repercussions or fear of investigations. Trumps very narrow victory, happened at probably the worst time politically in America. The supreme Court is pretty much lost and the lower court is packed with psychopaths. This is the moment to do something, because time is going to start going backwards real fast.

 

[WhySoDevious]

Couple of more days for another bombshell.

 

[StraySheep]

This vote will definitely continue to rally the trump base and they will likely turn out in droves to vote

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Honestly I don't buy that shit at all. The Trump base is the Trump base. They are largely going to do what they were going to do. But optics wise this is so bad for Trump and the Republicans that come November I'm sure you'll realize that doing the morally right thing will also be a net positive politically.

 

[BFIB]

I hope the Dems realize there is no two party system. One is for the people, the other is a terrorist organization. We the people need to mass protest, rise up and take this country back. If the Dems gain executive branch come November, there is no quarter, no surrender to the GOP. I want non stop hearings, non stop investigations into them and everyone involved with them. It has to happen. It needs to happen.

 

[Deleted member 3010]

Something that Schiff omitted to say is that a normal trial is composed of a jury that is impartial, which in this case was everything but. Today was evidence of precisely that.

 

[Deleted member 4353]

Ok, and so you want us to what? Not vote? That seems to be the only conclusion if you follow your thinking through. Why bother if it's all rigged, right?

So tell us all something, if the GOP can rig elections en-masse and at-will why didn't they in 2018? GOP members could still have their cushy jobs! They could have kept all these crimes under wraps! Trump could have entirely prevented his own impeachment! Be assured, his giant ego cares very much about the legacy he'll have and being only the 3rd impeached President likely eats at him everyday. But this didn't happen. So, why not?

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Ok did I say not to vote or anything like that? Where are you getting that from? All I said is the election will be rigged to hell. It's gonna be difficult to win.

 

[devilhawk]

Whether they do beyond voter suppression tactics, you better believe that Russia and Trump are going to muddy the fuck out of the next election. Trumps going to declare it rigged. Russia is going to full on campaign that Trump and republicans rigged - be it true or not. I can almost guarantee Russia will trick the press into covering a "Democrats are boycotting the upcoming election" scam.

 

[Darkgran]

Trump now has the power to do WHATEVER HE WANTS to tamper with the 2020 election.

 

[Rover]

Forget where I saw this via twitter (either in my feed or in a thread here) but "not reforming the US government after 1860 was a massive mistake" seems to be a very accurate take.

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The entire "impeachment is too divisive / it would set this country on fire / bu the economy is doing so well!" argument sounds very similar to the civil war and recoonstruction. Leniency didn't lead to reformation, it led to people getting crazier and craftier about how to carry out their racism and brutality.

We can't just live with a fundamentally fucked situation because the economy happens to be good. We can't forego any sort of justice because the people siding with the accused will get their feelings hurt.

These senators are out there expressing concern that people are going to riot if their corrupt president gets punished for doing crimes? They let the inmates run the god damn asylum.

 

[Deleted member 2533]

From Slate:

A friend of mine who is as devoted to the proposition that the courts, the lawyers, and the judges will save America from itself warned me very early on in the Trump era to read all the transcripts from the third Nuremburg trial, commonly known as the Justice Case. That was the trial for judges, jurists, and prosecutors who—under cover of law—allowed for atrocities during the Third Reich. I don't read and reread the transcripts and testimony obsessively because we find ourselves in anything close to the Third Reich, or because judges in 21st century America are accused of doing anything close to what the Nuremburg jurists were accused and largely convicted of. I read and reread the transcripts and conclusions merely to remind myself that just because judges, robes, statutes, and case law are involved in a process does not mean that justice is being done. I also do it to remind myself that sometimes people who live in thrall to the idea that whatever courts and process ultimately produce is an objective thing called "justice" are sometimes too credulous by half—and oftentimes even complicit.

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Source

 

[MattyG]

Honestly I don't buy that shit at all. The Trump base is the Trump base. They are largely going to do what they were going to do. But optics wise this is so bad for Trump and the Republicans that come November I'm sure you'll realize that doing the morally right thing will also be a net positive politically.

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Yeah, I think if you're hardcore Trumpian enough to follow him to, and through, this point, you were going out to vote for him in November anyway. The big question is how many moderate Rs this will alienate and how many otherwise no-show independents and democrats it will spur into voting

 

[asmith906]

Genuine question concerning the witnesses: since Trump had blocked the House's request for witnesses, what would stop him from doing it again w/ the Senate?

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Probably nothing but then he would be saying that Republicans are the ones treating him unfairly.

 

[Tagyhag]

Whether they do beyond voter suppression tactics, you better believe that Russia and Trump are going to muddy the fuck out of the next election. Trumps going to declare it rigged. Russia is going to full on campaign that Trump and republicans rigged - be it true or not. I can almost guarantee Russia will trick the press into covering a "Democrats are boycotting the upcoming election" scam.

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Wonder if they'll rig the elections for the dems and purposely do a sloppy job to get caught. It's a risky move but if it works the republicans will having a perfect way to try to take over everything.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Never expected removal but the vote to block witnesses has left me feeling straight up physically ill. Christ. That's a really big fucking mistake for America.

 

[Deleted member 43084]

Trump must have just seen Hamilton.

 

[APOEERA]

At the risk of getting in trouble here, but the US will end up in a revolution because of this. Trump will view this as carte blanche to do whatever he wants (including further interference in the elections and inexplicably closing down voting stations in Democrat leaning districts because of "voting irregularities"). The country will be in a recession due to complacency and lack of interest in stopping him.

I'll be fighting like hell in November to vote for ANYONE that supports the democratic party but not going to be surprised that my vote mysteriously didn't count and it'll be 90+% in GA for Trump.

 

[DrEvil]

Between this and Brexit:

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(If it doesn't play at the right place, 1m9sec is the desired timestamp.


It could mean that this date might hold some special significance, being the temporal junction point for the entire space-time continuum!

 

[ItRhymesWithDoom]

oooh, subpoena time!

Also, Roberts's answer was surprisingly decent. He is indeed not elected by the people to represent them in the Senate. The senators are elected to do so.

They did stop the whole reading of the subpoena though. :(

 

[DiscoShark]

At the risk of getting in trouble here, but the US will end up in a revolution because of this. Trump will view this as carte blanche to do whatever he wants (including further interference in the elections and inexplicably closing down voting stations in Democrat leaning districts because of "voting irregularities"). The country will be in a recession due to complacency and lack of interest in stopping him.

I'll be fighting like hell in November to vote for ANYONE that supports the democratic party but not going to be surprised that my vote mysteriously didn't count and it'll be 90+% in GA for Trump.

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At the risk of getting in trouble here, left wing conspiracies don't get you in trouble here.

 

[Coolverine]

i've had a lot of misguided and irrational hate for people in my life, the current slate of Republicans in general make me finally understand how I can really truly and reasonably hate people and be in the right with my hatred.

 

[Wrestleman]

oooh, supoena time!

Also, Roberts's answer was surprisingly decent. He is indeed not elected by the people to represent them in the Senate. The senators are elected to do so.

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Eh. It's a bullshit answer. The only reason he is in the Senate is because in an impeachment trial, the Vice President is a conflict of interest. In any other Senate proceeding, the VP would be expected to break the tie, so why the fuck shouldn't he be expected to?

 

[SaintBowWow]

I was wondering if we could try and make a thread on here that has some tips and resources on what all we could do leading up the election. I'm in Georgia so I think there's a real possibility of making a difference here. I'm not sure where to begin. I've always voted but never done much political action before.

Click to shrink...

If you're in Georgia you could ferry involved with Fair Fight, an organization recently created by Stacy Abrams to fight voter suppression (and after today we're definitely going to need to combat that).

Home | Fair Fight

Join our fight for free and fair elections!

fairfight.com

For general voter outreach opportunities on your area, I used Vote Save America during the 2018 midterms. It's focused in primaries right now but will be a good resource for canvassing opportunities when we get closer to the general election.

Homepage | Vote Save America

Vote Save America is the one-stop shop for everything you need to get informed, get involved, and get out the vote in the most important election of our lifetime.

votesaveamerica.com

 

[MMBosstones86]

Collins voted aye to table 😂😂😂

oooh, subpoena time!

Also, Roberts's answer was surprisingly decent. He is indeed not elected by the people to represent them in the Senate. The senators are elected to do so.

They did stop the whole reading of the subpoena though. :(

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Schumer literally just read it. Delaying now doesn't do anything. Just getting them all on record again.

 

[Wrestleman]

The way this clerk says "aye" and "no" is driving me up a wall.

 

[prophetvx]

Collins voted aye to table 😂😂😂



Schumer literally just read it. Delaying now doesn't do anything. Just getting them all on record again.

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As did Romney.

There isn't a single decent human in the GOP.

 

[Wrestleman]

Although I do have to wonder why Schumer primed up that tiebreaker inquiry like that. Does he know that one of the amendments is likely going to go to a tie or something?

 

[RoninZ]

This is to get them on the record for against specific witnesses. Good.

 

[ItRhymesWithDoom]

The way this clerk says "aye" and "no" is driving me up a wall.

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"nooooowuuh"
It is really grating, yes.

 

[stew]

This will be very useful once Bolton's book is released and we learn a lot more.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

CNN just said Wednesday, with final arguments Monday.

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I heard something about a final set of speeches after the vote for Friday? I dunno, maybe I misheard.

 

[Halo]

Hey All, can someone please place very specific instructions on how to register to vote ASAP?

+Repeat it over & over again.....

Hint: It's Super easy but last minute is not an option.

For the common good.

Thank you

 

[CallMeShaft]

Russia already helped Trump in 2016 and while he won and would claim that it was a landslide victory, it wasn't. Hillary, being a very unpopular candidate, still walked away with more votes.

In 2018, Russia again tried to manipulate voters, but it ended up being a big turnout for Dems. Lost a few senate seats due to which seats were being voted on at the time, but Dems won the house by a large margin.

Trump and the GOP weren't going to stop letting outside interference help their chances no matter what happened today. The only difference is that now their are a lot of Americans who are asking themselves why Republicans are unwilling to question a guy who had worked for Trump who recently wrote about Trump offering a QPQ. A lot of voters are idiots, mind you, but there are enough independents that are questioning the GOP's decision and a few Republicans who aren't proud that their candidate asked Ukraine for help (most are going to be all "fuck you, got mine", but there are still a few Republican voters who dislike the thought of a foreign government meddling in our politics).

If anything, this vote helps Dems. It helps piss off/excite the left, pushes independents closer to voting Dems this November, and allows for the potential for a lot of good future attack ads.