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Impeachment |OT|
- Thread starter Kaitos
- Start date
Dems should file more impeachment charges after this and immediately start subpoenaing everything and everyone. Get this court shit in motion NOW just in case he gets a second term.
The GOP are far too in it to stop now.
Don't expect them to save you no matter how hard they pretend to be conflicted.
Don't expect them to save you no matter how hard they pretend to be conflicted.
I hope whichever dem gets (hopefully) elected, they will focus first and foremost in undoing every single shitty thing Trump has rammed through.
There is no "if" here.
A 50/50 vote goes to Roberts.
He will be required to make a decision. He can't stand up and say "count me out of this." He would cast the final vote.
The court's integrity will already be on the line.
And then issue a very quick inherent contempt if he fights it.
After the complete hijacking of democracy is done, this should be the starting point for all subpoenas.
I wager the Dems will wait it out until the McGahn case is ruled on, but waiting on anything involving the DOJ or courts is a failing strategy and a waste of valuable precious time.
Exactly, but I just don't see adding states as a fix.
The Senate is supposed to be the 'highest law of the land' and be this 'magnificent legislative body'
so why would they ever need any form of oversight? And even then, how would that work, what would that look like, and how inherently corrupt would that be as well?
Lobbyism and party parity will always be an issue. Even if you add states or enact term limits, any one human being can be lobbied by the right corporation with a big enough paycheck or the peer pressure of a political party guaranteeing you a longer job.
The only way I see to fix that is to dissolve the Senate/Congress and put the ultimate legislative, decision making process back in the hands of the constituency. Can't lobby the entirety of the American populace in secret, without having a conversation about it.
One of the main arguments against this I've seen is the lack of education in the populace to make accurate, good decisions, but look at this shit we're dealing with now. Could it really be that much worse? If the decision today was a popular vote, we'd have witnesses and evidence. A popular vote on removal might even have shoved Trump out of Office.
That's not how it works, traditionally. Impeachment scholars say that a 50-50 vote would be defaulted to a No vote, but it's possible he could step in, though he would have to make that decision.
was the entire point of holding onto the articles not to guarantee a fair trial? you know, with witnesses and evidence?
He's not going to be re-elected regardless of his vote, thus his expediency is nonsensical.
So dumb people are just trying to give up and say that he's going to get re-elected, people just have to come out and vote and he's out, that's it.
Easy like that, I cannot understand why people can't look at the last one and see that if it was another candidate and not Hillary, trump would have probably lost.
Easy like that, I cannot understand why people can't look at the last one and see that if it was another candidate and not Hillary, trump would have probably lost.
Historically yes, the chief justice has broken all (both) of the tie votes.
For Roberts to hide from that would be unprecedented but hey.
For Roberts to hide from that would be unprecedented but hey.
A couple random thoughts I had on all of this.
1. Unless you have a pretty good idea that witnesses will be allowed or that the convict vote will be close... I think its more important for a Dem to keep a very contested senate seat than it is to make a "virtue" vote.
2. It's looking like Trump will be acquitted. My fear is because of this, he can skirt future impeachable offenses. What is stopping him from asking for more dirt on his enemies from foreign influences? Mueller didn't stick to him. This will not stick. If dems float impeachment again it will be seen as incredibly partisan overeach to get rid of a sitting president. Trump will basically get the confidence and the go ahead to do more shady shit.
1. Unless you have a pretty good idea that witnesses will be allowed or that the convict vote will be close... I think its more important for a Dem to keep a very contested senate seat than it is to make a "virtue" vote.
2. It's looking like Trump will be acquitted. My fear is because of this, he can skirt future impeachable offenses. What is stopping him from asking for more dirt on his enemies from foreign influences? Mueller didn't stick to him. This will not stick. If dems float impeachment again it will be seen as incredibly partisan overeach to get rid of a sitting president. Trump will basically get the confidence and the go ahead to do more shady shit.
Just come out and vote you guys! It's that easy!
Nevermind the motherfuckers in power doing every fucking thing they can to undermine our justice system. Nevermind their track record of voter suppression and gerrymandering and how little they care about democracy. Nevermind that they've basically already formally announced that Trump can do whatever the fuck he wants, regardless of legality, out in the fucking open for everyone to see and get away with it. Let's have complete and total faith that everything'll work out this time. I'm sure every safeguard we've put in place to protect the sanctity of our elections will hold out.
I'm an outsider looking in, but I still really hope for another Maverick moment that turns the ties just when it's most needed. I know neither the conditions nor the options are not the best, and that's an understatement, but stranger things have happened, right?
Just to clarify, I mean how surprising McCain's vote was. Not condoning anything else the man said and did.
Just to clarify, I mean how surprising McCain's vote was. Not condoning anything else the man said and did.
Indeed, a well-timed scoop. WH counsel leader Pat Cipollone in the room. Not supposed to be a lawyer and witness in a trial.
But the screaming people told me that Rudy was just a rogue agent zealously defending his client!
Fuck, Bolton is such a tease.
Bolton could call any reporter or any news outlet RIGHT NOW and tell his side of the story, but he won't.
Nah, they'll just shut it down and use it to fuel more bullshit.
You are aware that Dems/Pelosi had little to no leverage in this, right? Like next to none. In holding things, it allowed Parnas and Bolton stuff to drop which pushed this vote EVEN to be competitive. They bought an extra few days and made this EVEN relevant.
Acquittal was always the outcome and Dems used the only card they could. Somehow blaming the lack of witnesses or a fair trial on Pelosi is completely ridiculous.
Bolton could call any reporter or any news outlet RIGHT NOW and tell his side of the story, but he won't.
Nah, they'll just shut it down and use it to fuel more bullshit.
You are aware that Dems/Pelosi had little to no leverage in this, right? Like next to none. In holding things, it allowed Parnas and Bolton stuff to drop which pushed this vote EVEN to be competitive. They bought an extra few days and made this EVEN relevant.
Acquittal was always the outcome and Dems used the only card they could. Somehow blaming the lack of witnesses or a fair trial on Pelosi is completely ridiculous.
Welp
Not like it will matter, though
Not like it will matter, though
Seeing as how the phone call with Zelensky happened the day after he thought he was exonerated by the Mueller report, there's no doubt this will happen again.
There are so many reasons to do it, and no reason not to do it. Dems don't even have the choice, they have to prepare for the worst just in case, and if Trump gets re-elected they must be prepared to keep fighting him, the subpoena power would be the best weapon. With what's happening, there is also no doubt that others Presidents will try obstruct Congress like Trump is doing, times have changed.
Blaming the Dems for the GOP's bad behavior is so ridiculously transparent when it happens.
Oh yeah since we didn't already see this coming, Guys don't vote!!! Just already give up and let them win because doing nothing is better because you already know that he can't lose.
Everybody could have told you that not much was going to come out of this as what's important is the election, think what you want to believe as they say.
Just go vote and remind any person that can vote, to vote. Simple as that.
This won't change the witness vote but at least they'll look absolutely filthy voting against witnesses today.
They should put the Vice President's ass to work and get all that shit undone within the first two months.
Probably not, but don't count it out. This is pretty damn huge.
But there's still more coming out, just seems like the only leverage they had was holding onto the articles for an extended period of time until the release of Bolton's book, all the leaks, etc. Letting the trial end right before Iowa, Super Bowl, and the SOTU just like Trump wanted seemed to all play right into his hands.
The Senate. If you think this 'trial' was bullshit, see what happens when they try to Impeach again.
The House controls the initial impeachment charges. The whole idea is to let the courts start to uncover stuff in the background way before it gets to the Senate and just leave the next impeachment hanging over Trump's head for the next year or two. Senate can't just shut down the House processes....
IT actually is that easy.. you just need to convince the younger voter that their votes actually matter.
So much effort is put into the older demographic (which is a HUGE problem), the youth are far more progressive.... and it's the ONLY way you will see any real change.
yeah and this might be a viable option once he's acquitted this time. keep uncovering more evidence and get their asses on the record again
Especially in this case. I've got no issues blaming Dems for lots of problems or making lots of mistakes over the years, but how they've handled impeachment over the last few weeks? No, they've surpassed my expectations. The only thing that will make me eyeroll is if someone like Manchin votes for no witnesses or acquittal. Everything else feels like nitpicking.
It's huge but Alexander already said he knows Trump is guilty, but it's not impeachable. So more evidence for some of these people means nothing.
I vote. I have never said anything about not voting.
But if you seriously believe we should put any faith in the November elections to save our asses from this fucking hellhole the GOP is digging for us after all the times they've subverted our democracy I've got a bridge to sell you.
I'm voting because the lie that it'll do anything is the only hope for an escape from this for me. Even if I know it's a lie, it's all I've got.
Well, that or violent revolution.
Which won't happen.
So what's the schedule for today? Begins at 10am PT? Immediate vote on witnesses? If/when they vote No, do they immediately vote on whether to remove or acquit?
Definitely feels like the die has been cast. The corruption is stunning.
Definitely feels like the die has been cast. The corruption is stunning.
More importantly, not supposed to make knowingly false statements, or let others make them, in a proceeding.