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Impeachment |OT|
- Thread starter Kaitos
- Start date
It won't be 50/50. If there's one thing you can count it, it's for Republicans to fall in line nomatter how low.
😂 I was just talking about this earlier today. First year or two was living hell, but I stopped being surprised a long time ago. The primaries have been a godsend tbh. My anxiety is way down.
I mean, when you really read my post, it IS pretty clear I thought I was saving the country with my amazing activism, and not just calling him to leave a message of disapproval that I admitted wouldn't change anything, yeah! Lol!
As if any testimony from Bolton would suddenly make Republicans go "BY JOVE DONALD TRUMP IS A CRIMINAL!?"
The last thing keeping him out of power is the vote. And if there's only one engine keeping the plane flying, that engine's got a bullseye on, in red paint.
Strap in.
No. If it were 50-50, Roberts would abstain and the vote would still fail.
You don't think he will now stack the deck against that, especially when his party wins primarily by cheating? This is a green light to openly attack a democratic election.
I almost want them to vote for no witnesses. He's not going to be removed, and everyone who can be convinced at this point is convinced that the president withheld aide for political gains. I'd rather the republicans dig themselves into a hole with the cover up.
I also don't trust John Bolton. He's too much of a wild card. If he takes the stand and becomes cagey or throws himself under the bus for Trump, this could come out as less of a dirty win for the GOP. They'd also subpoena the Bidens, who will (and should) refuse, which will give them more of an excuse to avoid their own subpoenas.
I also don't trust John Bolton. He's too much of a wild card. If he takes the stand and becomes cagey or throws himself under the bus for Trump, this could come out as less of a dirty win for the GOP. They'd also subpoena the Bidens, who will (and should) refuse, which will give them more of an excuse to avoid their own subpoenas.
I got the impression of a suicide bomber trying a last ditch effort to take down the target, if we're talking the metaphor. Like, our last ditch effort is to vote and somehow hope that works.
I do not believe that can work now.
If he's defeated in November, he ceases to have any executive powers whatsoever on January 20th of next year.
tonight the republic died.....
not nesscarly i think, roberts if he cares about his legacy and by extension that of the SCOTUS, breaking the tie and getting witnesses would go a hell of a long way to do so. or he can take the aforementioned easy way out and abstain.
I said voting is the only thing keeping the country afloat which makes it a cartoonishly huge target.
Murcowski has zero reason to vote yes now. She can vote no safely to save her seat. Collins got the okay from Moscow Mitch to vote yes.
It was all optics. It always was with those two. John McCain was the real wildcard back in 2017. He would have voted for witnesses most likely.
Being a Republican in Congress would be the easiest job in the world if it wasn't for all the running for elevators and dodging constituents and reporters. You could pretty much replace any of them with a trump soundboard.
Despite all the pessimism, the election is not remotely a foregone conclusion:
- The Democrats are still building on momentum from the 2018 blue wave. An acquital will only drive outraged voters to the polls harder, and we're talking a presidential election year, where the turnout will be significantly higher.
- 2020 is the year when the GOP are very much on the defensive in the senate, and at least two seats are guaranteed to flip at this point (from what I'm understanding from the talk in this thread and elsewhere, unless I'm mistaken), and the Democrats are going to rail on the vote against witness and the vote to acquit hard when the election comes - with a huge majority of independents and a pluarility of GOP voters in favor of witnesses, that's a big chink in the armor that the Democrats can exploit, and makes claims of a sham trial all the more viable for attack ads. A Democrat-lead senate, even in the event of Trump's re-election, will shut down any further right-wing judicial appointments, and will especially be a guard against further appointments to the Supreme Court until Trump finally leaves office, nevermind halting further attempts to push the US towards a fascist state.
- Trump is the incumbent now, and outside the brainwashed die-hards, people now know what a Trump presidency looks like, and a fuckton of people don't like it, including independents. His presidency now has a lot of baggage that can be used as ammunition against him.
- All the serious Democrat nominees (mainly Sanders, Warren and Biden) have good leads over Trump as far as polling goes, Biden especially. If they play their cards right, they can win, especially if they learn from Clinton's mistakes. And polling suggests Dem primary voters like all three of them pretty well, so there shouldn't be a large amount of hard feelings no matter who wins. Well, aside from places like here, of course.
- Bloomberg. He's basically got no real long-term chance of victory in the primaries, but he's also promised to dedicate a huge war chest towards campaigning for whoever wins the nomination, even if it isn't him. If he keeps his word, that's potentially hundreds of millions of dollars dedicated towards tearing Trump down, and that is no small thing. Never underestimate the power of a good negative attack ad run or a good scare campaign.
Man, if it wasn't for Doug Jones almost certainly losing in Alabama this year, Democrats would have a really good chance to take back the Senate.
I honestly believe Democrats are counting on this, too. The big problems are that Democrats are trying to win a rigged game without many cards up their own sleeves. I 100% believe Republicans are doing everything in their power to undermine our electoral system while Democrats are trying to play by the rules.
Wait until after the election. If the country doesn't self correct, then you're definitely in the right.
This was al;ways going to be the result. Them not allowing witnesses or evidence just gives an extra rock to hand round their necks.
This was a sham trial, and the entire GOP caucus supported it. That's the message for the election.
This was a sham trial, and the entire GOP caucus supported it. That's the message for the election.
That's why this is about broadcasting the arguments and the evidence to as many people as possible, and then using the GOP votes and cover up in campaign ads and debates to get them out of office in November.
It's been remarkable to witness in practice, but this is exactly what many people expected to happen. Create a fiction in the midst of an overwhelming reality, use that to rationalize voting along party lines, and save your President. Democrats just have to hope some of this resonated with people beyond those already ready to vote blue.
It's been remarkable to witness in practice, but this is exactly what many people expected to happen. Create a fiction in the midst of an overwhelming reality, use that to rationalize voting along party lines, and save your President. Democrats just have to hope some of this resonated with people beyond those already ready to vote blue.
You honestly think it's so black and white? That if Democrats were faced with these exact circumstances but against a Democratic president that they'd behave the same way as the GOP?
As much as all politicians do elevate their party above the national interest (or just hope that the two coincide), there is something special about Republican DNA in terms of cognitive dissonance, maintaining power at all costs, and fucking over people.
BOTH SIDES.
My reply from Rob Portman's office.
yea it is black and white. we are witnessing it now. republicans are on their knees for trump.
I am obviously referring to your claim that the Democrats are effectively the same.
I'd say there's a decent argument that the Democrats not doing it like that is why we even define the Republicans as doing it at all.
democrats have done the same in the past. it's a tug of war, and once you realize you lose every time you can breathe easier.
User banned (1 week): Trolling over a series of posts
hey i am wrong. sorry. democratic party #1.
I believe that this upcoming election will be like 2008 all over again with it being a huge landslide for the Democrats; House, Senate, & Presidency.
Trump himself had galvanized a lot of Democratic & Independent voters to get up, get out & vote against the majority of the GOP. As a result, the Democrats took back the House & the GOP lost over 650 seats so far, even in some deep red areas.
Most Americans & the rest of the world have had enough of Trump & the GOP.
Let me put it in a way that makes it easier for people to understand.
The incumbent has only lost the election 3 times in the last 75 years. Defeating Trump is not going to be easy. I personally don't think there is a candidate right now that can beat him. Especially if he's cheating.
Yea... But I'm pretty sure if he feels like what he's doing is in the best interest of the country he can do whatever he wants with no repercussions according to his legal counsel. So if he loses he can just stay on, along with all his buddies right? He's got free reign now.
It boggles my mind that they have spent all of this time arguing over whether there should be witnesses in a trial. Like... how do you even have a trial without calling witnesses?
not sure if it goes that far. bush was a lot less popular than trump. the only thing going for trump, really, is the economy not currently in the shitter. that said, with trump being so incredibly, consistently and historically unpopular (he's been underwater since right after the inauguration when he revealed just how shitty he'd actually be), combined with how elections went in 2017, 2018, and 2019, it's pretty clear that it'll at least be a hard fight for him this time. this is why he'll have to resort to even more cheating. at least the house might be able to keep some pressure up on wrongdoing, or keeping it visible at least, even if nothing can be done about it until 2021.
the senate is at least a +1 with az trading al and gardner losing co. collins probably loses maine at this point (her voting in the impeachment 'trial' doesn't mean anything and she knows it - so may as well do the thing that nets you a cushy job afterwards). nc would probably flip as well. getting that 'one more' would probably have to come from one of the georgia seats or iowa. if it is another wave election like 2018 then dem senate would happen with a 52-seat majority. 51 is kind of a must-have at this stage though.
I personally want there to be witnesses on the record, but I agree that it's actually politically beneficial for the Democrats if there are no Senate witnesses/documents. The credible accusation of a cover-up is powerful, and it will loom over Republicans in the Senate for the rest of their careers and lives.
The GOP senators strategically decided that the fallout from not having witnesses would be less bad than the fallout of acquitting after having witnesses.
That they'd have zero chance of spinning an acquittal with full evidence.
There's a world in between that and both sides. Straw man.