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Deleted member 12224

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,113
Trump's defense team is arguing in this trial that the President did not Obstruct Congress because the House did not exhaust all options, namely they didn't wait for the Subpoena's they sent to be litigated in court before accusing the President of obstructing.

Meanwhile, the DoJ is down the street in federal court arguing Congress cannot force the Executive to answer to Congressional subpoena's. The Judge asked what mechanism the House would need to exercise in order to compel the executive, and the DoJ unironically said Impeachment.
It's the "you must exhaust all administrative remedies" argument.
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
Not sure how to respond.
If we're in agreement the outcome of the senate trial will be acquittal no matter what, would it not behoove us to get past it ASAP so that senators running for their party's nomination can campaign to win their primary for the chance to actually unseat Trump in November?

I think what I'm saying is, I don't have faith in Biden to do it and It seems more than anything that dragging the Senate trial out longer than necessary helps hand Biden the keys to the DNC nomination and therefore is probably a bad thing.

Unless a witness is going to change the outcome, I think this is going to hurt more than it helps in the long run.




I want to believe you, but I'm cynical enough to worry it might actually help the turnout for Trump's supporters in November.


BIden, for all his shitshows, is still polling ahead of Bernie and Warren on winning against Trump in the gneral and even as the leads have swapped, that hasn't changed, so statistically that's a weird concern. But just to diagram It out with depressing reality.

I'm concerned that if he wins, the ceaseless attacks on Biden - even and especially during the impeachment for the same crime, will undermine him and weigh his candidacy down in a repeat of Hillary from 2016. And if Bernie wins, I'm worried his fractious base and nonstop "red scare" bullshit from the media will not only weigh down his general chances - but that the GOP never had to spend it's Bernie oppo from last time - and that they have a battle plan for him as the nom. Further, none of the candidates can win without strong African American turnout and Bernie will have a giant enthusiasm gap.. Warren - some of the same concerns - and the Pocohontas thing has been cooled off for a bit but I don't underestimate the credulity of voters, and like Bernie, the GOP may have a warchest of oppo and ammo on her.

I can't believe I'm saying this but I wish Kamala and Beto had stayed in the race. Both had baggage but were young enough to have short voting records and few scandals. The current infighting and range of candidates is absolutely depressing. This election should have been a no-brainer - but the media again let the GOP and Donald Trump carry out a three year hit job on the Dem candidates and allowed them to get away with the most outlandish non stop lies in the history of American politics. And still runs stories designed solely to insight fighting, or sow doubt about a candidate's veracity or worth or electability.


Shit. Shit. Shit.



Vote D in November and get everyone you know to vote D.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,816
Schiff is taking a lot of questions, this is better than yesterday.

Very true.

One thing I'll miss when this impeachment ends is listening to Schiff speak. Regardless of what happens, he's going to come out of this a political superstar. His chances at being Speaker of the House or AG in a DEM administration have skyrocketed.
 

Doorman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,852
Michigan
So, when does the verdict happen?
This is, stupidly and unfortunately, the defense's current answer to this. Or rather, some combination of "you can't overturn an election from 3 years ago" combined with "you can't remove a president in an election year because what if people want to vote for him?"

The more realistic answer as far as the trial itself is concerned is tomorrow, probably fairly promptly after the motions to allow witness testimony or document subpoenas are both voted down.
 

Ayahuasca

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
1,456
Who is paying Rudy? Just follow the money. Amazing no one knows. Amazing that guy an hour earlier didnt answer the question.
 

devilhawk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,536
Could we get a few present votes from Jones and Manchin? I think it would be easy to state that they could not in good faith vote without being allowed witnesses and documents.
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
That quick. Well I suppose with no witnesses, what can you do? Republicans are basically playing it that way?
 

RagnarokX

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,773
By saying Rudy was acting as a private citizen and not a part of US policy. This means Rudy was operating in Trump's personal interest and not the government's. The whole point of the defense argument was that Trump was withholding aid / meeting for valid policy reasons for the US government.
No, Trump's lawyers said they undercut the House's case using their own witnesses.
 

Flex1212

Member
Jul 12, 2019
4,150
By saying Rudy was acting as a private citizen and not a part of US policy. This means Rudy was operating in Trump's personal interest and not the government's. The whole point of the defense argument was that Trump was withholding aid / meeting for valid policy reasons for the US government.

Yep - Hard to believe this all star group of lawyers fucked up. hahah
 

DanGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,741
It's not interference for Ukrainian officials to denounce candidate Trump for saying he would give Crimea to Russia.
 

DanGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,741
Attack the whistleblower because you can't dismiss the facts he/she brought to the world's attention.
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,773
She did well on that one. Granted you'd have to be an idiot not to understand the difference between the two impeachments
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,773
Can you believe the House ran the House process?!?!

edit: oh and he's not answering the question. Cool.