I'm trying to understanding whether my dating preference has been/is a fetish - and why

[JonCha]

Hi everyone

I've recently been challenged on whether I have a fetish regarding my dating preferences/choices. I'm a white male and almost, though not exclusively, have dated black women. I've been asked to understand why this is the case - and honestly, I don''t know, so wanted to see if different perspectives could help me understand why as I do this introspection.

I don't focus on one characteristic of these women as to why I date them - I've always just said that's my preference, but I realise that's not comforting. Beyond that it's really about the vibe, personality and our interests - especially around music, which is very important to me. Generally in life I pride myself on seeing the whole person (and got a bit emotional when I was talking about that point during this discussion). Further, when I've used dating apps, I've not filtered my preferences by races and have gone on profiles on what I like about that person (both how they're describing themselves, and how they look). This has resulted in some dates with non-black women - but again this has been the exception, rather than the rule.

I also grew up in a working-class, white city - there was very little diversity.

I guess I just want to hear a full range of options, maybe experiences of others (on both sides), and possible resources that I can utilised. I've never been asked this, even during my dating life and when it's come up so this is new for me!

Edit: I should add this convo is with a girl I'm seeing, who is black.

 

[krazen]

I don't see anything wrong with it since your reasonings behind it don't seem to be steeped in fetish. I have some Asian homegirls and whoo boy, the stories they tell me about running into people who only date them for how they look and it's nightmarish.

Really all you can do is be honest with yourself and why you're dating them, and it seems like it's what you're doing here.

That said, on the flip I can see why people might confront you on the subject and be sensitive about it (my comment about my Asian female friends). All you can do is approach your relationships and dating honestly which, I mean, is what you're supposed to do anyway.

 

[Akira86]

I think this is more something for you to work out. You understand that "this is my preference" has an awkwardness that comes with it, so you need to self explore and understand it better within yourself. How is it you come into contact with these women, why do you think you have this "preference", and is there a deeper and more resilient reason than just pixie choosies?

 

[Addie]

What kind of numbers are you talking about, and what are the demographics of your city? If you live in a major metropolitan area now that's sufficiently diverse and you've been on 10 dates, 7 of which were with black women… that's different from going on 98 out of 100 dates. Either way, your rationale (focusing on music) seems benign, but it's hard to say without having more context.

 

[Deleted member 24907]

I don't have much advice except to say it's really good that you're reflecting on yourself like this. The vast majority of men, including many in Era, get really defensive when asked to self reflect if their preferences are not fetishizing or worse, latently racist (the latter I wouldn't say applies to you though). I'm glad those discussions have spurred at least one person to think about themselves in a constructive way.

 

[wenis]

Some shit ain't people's business 🤷‍♂️ if it's healthy and you're not taking advantage of people or being gross about it not sure why anyone should care or make a comment about your preference.

 

[Ruisu]

I would say that whether you have or don't have a fetish matters less than how well and respectfully you treat the women you're dating.

 

[Saturday]

Well, it's healthy to have some introspection on how sexual preferences/habits are formed, OP; and it's not really the type of thing you talk about casually, so hopefully the conversation you had was in good faith.

Alls I can say is that preferences and fetishes are pretty different in my eyes; and fetishes, indulged healthily and fully considering the other party involved- are not something to ultimately chastise. I think you yourself might already know what you would consider a preference and a major turn-on.

 

[JonCha]

I should add this discussion has begun with a girl I'm seeing, who is black.

 

[kcp12304]

We all have desires that we can't just snap our fingers and get rid of. It's important to be aware of those desires and how they are influenced from our environment growing up, who we've dated in the past, media, etc. If you want to be conscious about this, It even more important you be aware of how black women have been fetishized and avoid playing into that (i.e. dumb chocolate references).

At the end of the day, as long as you're living your life caring about the person and all the other values you've mentioned...you're good.

 

[JonCha]

What kind of numbers are you talking about, and what are the demographics of your city? If you live in a major metropolitan area now that's sufficiently diverse and you've been on 10 dates, 7 of which were with black women… that's different from going on 98 out of 100 dates. Either way, your rationale (focusing on music) seems benign, but it's hard to say without having more context.

Click to shrink...

I live in London. I don't know the exact numbers of dates I've been on. The majority have been with black women - these women I find more attractive than others. I wasn't to and din't date white women in my hometown.

 

[Saturday]

I should add this discussion has begun with a girl I'm seeing, who is black.

Click to shrink...

This might recontextualize the original conversation. As other posters mentioned, having preferences/fetishes can be healthy when boundaries are properly explored/respected. You coming to terms with it is one thing, if a partner feels uncomfortable about it then it's worth having that open conversation to address any concerns she has.

 

[JonCha]

This might recontextualize the original conversation. As other posters mentioned, having preferences/fetishes can be healthy when boundaries are properly explored/respected. You coming to terms with it is one thing, if a partner feels uncomfortable about it then it's worth having that open conversation to address any concerns she has.

Click to shrink...

We are in the process of having that conversation, and it's ongoing. She wants to understand the 'why', and to get a point where she's comfortable at this stage of what is happening between us before we get down the line. I didn't have any clear answers for her beyond it being my preference and not seeing her as just a black women, and as whole woman, and being very much a personality person.

 

[julian]

People tend to have preferences when it comes to attraction. Nobody would say you have a white girl fetish if you only dated white girls. If you are interested in pursuing something long term and see this person as a person and not just some fetish, I don't get the harm.

 

[HeyNay]

I mean, are you fetishizing their blackness sexually? If you are reducing a person to the color of their skin as a means for gratification, then yeah, that's going to bite you in the ass IMO, but it doesn't sound like that's what you're doing. I think it's fine to acknowledge to yourself that there can be cultural differences (or even different vibes) among different groups of people, and that your personality might align more with certain groups. In this case, it might manifest as a preference based on your experience, but as long as the person you're seeing understands that you are not with them *because* they are black, then I think you're ok.

 

[Kernel]

My understanding is if it's a fetish you are incapable of being aroused otherwise.

It's a preference if it's more of a conscious choice, versus "I'm not capable of being attracted to anyone else"

 

[Nexus2049]

I can relate. I've dated primarily black men, due to preference, but I can't pin point what exactly it is I prefer. I still give an attempt to get to know and date other ethnicities of course, but I will 90% of the time end up with a black guy or mixed guy. Several people I've been with have said they exclusively date white men. But I'm young, there's time for my tastes to change and grow.

 

[JonCha]

I mean, are you fetishizing their blackness sexually? If you are reducing a person to the color of their skin as a means for gratification, then yeah, that's going to bite you in the ass IMO, but it doesn't sound like that's what you're doing. I think it's fine to acknowledge to yourself that there can be cultural differences (or even different vibes) among different groups of people, and that your personality might align more with certain groups. In this case, it might manifest as a preference based on your experience, but as long as the person you're seeing understands that you are not with them *because* they are black, then I think you're ok.

Click to shrink...

I had therapy a few years ago, and I chatted about most of my friends being of colour. My therapist said you may just aligned with this people more as they accept you for you are. I'm wondering if my preference for black women is based on this prior experience, (back home, I didn't have many friends from my background).

 

[Akira86]

My understanding is if it's a fetish you are incapable of being aroused otherwise.

Click to shrink...

this isn't really true in the context of racial "fetishes" and actual sexual fixation and paraphilia textbook "fetish".

the race fetish is more about applying undue and unfair characteristics and traits to a person based on their race and surrounding it with sexual and other social connotations, and being attracted as a result.


OP
if it's just a matter of being more comfortable around someone of a different culture, you could explore the whys of that. if you are grounded and respectul of the people you're dating that's so much better than almost anything else. if you're gravitating towards black women and exoticism is a focus, plus you have a roving eye and a running list and it's really this thing inside you, you'll have some idea if you're honest with yourself.

the bottom line is if you do a deep exploration and it just comes down to you like and respect all people but have just happened to have a dating trend outside of your race, that's not a fetish. If you have some big built up internal pedestal of ideas about other people that aren't true that you put them on so you feel attracted to them, that's fetishizing.

 

[GenTask]

No need to worry man, its not a fetish. I am a white guy and also attracted to black women mostly, in fact will be meeting a black woman soon for a date this month. Black women are beautiful, but obviously like everyone you meet you also need that emotional connection.

Think about it from a biological perspective. We are mammals after all and act like it even unconsciously going for what is more outwardly different than yourself. For me, darker skin is just an attractive trait.

 

[KillLaCam]

edit; read wrong. I'm not sure, I don't think it's a fetish because you're not purposely excluding people.

I'd normally say your environment can effect your preferences to a degree though.

 

[timshundo]

I've had two guys tell me on the first dates that they have a preference for Asian guys because they like our personalities (hmmm) and have similar interests: anime and video games.

That's it, that's the post.

Edit: and conversely there are Asian guys who solely seek out white men (and I won't speculate as to why) so I guess I can't really talk for us. Those couples are made for each other but I want none of it. I have zero racial preferences and I prefer my dates don't either.

Edit edit: But yeah I do call it a fetish. There's like a kajillion types of humans... races, ethnicities, nationalities.... why limit yourself to one?? Which is not me coming after black women, I'm just saying, I don't think people are born with racial preferences... I think they can be unlearned/trained and that's just a component of being/becoming an open minded, intelligent human. I dunno I'd love if someone proved me wrong on that.

 

[RetroRunner]

I live in London. I don't know the exact numbers of dates I've been on. The majority have been with black women - these women I find more attractive than others. I wasn't to and din't date white women in my hometown.

Click to shrink...

You can give a better answer than this, is it closer to 10, a 100, or a 1000?

 

[Min]

I was listening to an NPR podcast about this a few years ago. The guest was saying that attraction can partially be based on initial experiences in adolescence. It's not the ultimate determination for finding someone attractive but it could possibly play a factor in how people perceived others in terms of attraction.

'Invisibilia' Team Takes A Deep Dive Into The Science Of Desire

Most of us have a "type" — certain quirks and qualities we're just more into, that pique our sexual desire. But why are we attracted to the people we're attracted to?

www.npr.org

 

[Karateka]

I don't have any particular preference other than I don't think I'd want to date my own race again for what are probably subconscious reasons. I wonder if there is anything wrong there. Of course I don't have to worry about dating anyone else so its kind of moot.

 

[Clay]

My understanding is if it's a fetish you are incapable of being aroused otherwise.

It's a preference if it's more of a conscious choice, versus "I'm not capable of being attracted to anyone else"

Click to shrink...

How did you come to understand that, lol

Maybe I'm in the wrong here but I don't think people with a foot fetish can only become aroused by looking at feet. Right?

I think if you fetishize something you're much more aroused by it than the average person, but it doesn't mean you can't be aroused by anything else.

 

[Antrax]

The key thing here is whether you are fetishizing their blackness or you just happen to be dating black women more often. I've never dated a blonde person, not out of disinterest. It's just never happened.

A good thing to watch is the show Special on Netflix. There's an episode where the MC, Ryan (who has cerebral palsy), is hitting it off with a really attractive guy. But he keeps asking about his disability. Ryan brushes this off, but then later during sex, it's like the only thing the guy is getting off to (rubbing his scars, talking about his crutches and all that).

It's creepy, and you should evaluate if that's you

 

[JonCha]

You can give a better answer than this, is it closer to 10, a 100, or a 1000?

Click to shrink...

it's closer to something like 20.

 

[collige]

If you're critically thinking about and examining the roots of your own preferences and kinks (as we all should), you're doing way better than the average person. I think that if you don't do or say obviously chaser-y stuff and be actively anti-racist in your day to day life, there's nothing to panic about.

How did you come to understand that, lol

Maybe I'm in the wrong here but I don't think people with a foot fetish can only become aroused by looking at feet. Right?

I think if you fetishize something you're much more aroused by it than the average person, but it doesn't mean you can't be aroused by anything else.

Click to shrink...

It's an interpretation based of the definition in the DSM which is talking about it being a "disorder".

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

I had therapy a few years ago, and I chatted about most of my friends being of colour. My therapist said you may just aligned with this people more as they accept you for you are. I'm wondering if my preference for black women is based on this prior experience, (back home, I didn't have many friends from my background).

Click to shrink...

I think this is a huge detail you should have mentioned from the jump, lol.

It seems like your circle is just very non-white? So not just the women you date, but also your friends will skew a certain way. So it may be less of fetishizing of some stereotyped concept of Blackness, and more that you're falling back to a place of comfort and familiarity when you chat up a Black woman.

I may be off-base but let me know if that sounds vaguely in the right ballpark.

 

[MisterSnrub]

It might have something to do with the demography of where you grew up and feeling like you didn't quite fit in with it. I don't have a 'preference' that pertains to skin colour or anything like that but my historic dating habits definitely veer towards non-Scottish more often than not and naturally that leads to not all of the people I've been with being pasty n white.

 

[gozu]

My therapist said you may just aligned with this people more as they accept you for you are. I'm wondering if my preference for black women is based on this prior experience, (back home, I didn't have many friends from my background).

Click to shrink...

The important thing is the bolded. Very important. Carry on :)

 

[Royalan]

I think that how fetishistic this is (or isn't) depends on the people involved. OP, if you're on good terms with any of the Black women you've previously dated, they'd be the best people to ask. Them, and your current girlfriend.

I will say that for me, personally, as I've gotten older I've learned to take non-Black men telling me they have a preference for Black people as a huge red flag. Because 9 times out of 10, again in my personal experience, this has come with fetishization, often times that the guy themselves weren't acutely aware of.

I will echo that I don't think you mostly dating Black women is in itself a problem. But if it's a trend that you've noticed, and is causing you concern, it's good to at least be aware of it. And always been cognizant of ways in which, even unintentionally, you might be seeing the race of the person you're dating, and not the person.

 

[timshundo]

I think that how fetishistic this is (or isn't) depends on the people involved. OP, if you're on good terms with any of the Black women you've previously dated, they'd be the best people to ask. Them, and your current girlfriend.

I will say that for me, personally, as I've gotten older I've learned to take non-Black men telling me they have a preference for Black people as a huge red flag. Because 9 times out of 10, again in my personal experience, has come with fetishization, often times that the guy themselves weren't acutely aware of.

I will echo that I don't think you mostly dating Black women is in itself a problem. But if it's a trend that you've noticed, and is causing you concern, it's good to at least be aware of it. And always been cognizant of ways in which, even unintentionally, you might be seeing the race of the person you're dating, and not the person.

Click to shrink...

Beautifully said

 

[JonCha]

I think this is a huge detail you should have mentioned from the jump, lol.

It seems like your circle is just very non-white? So not just the women you date, but also your friends will skew a certain way. So it may be less of fetishizing of some stereotyped concept of Blackness, and more that you're falling back to a place of comfort and familiarity when you chat up a Black woman.

I may be off-base but let me know if that sounds vaguely in the right ballpark.

Click to shrink...

During uni, yes, my closest friends were non-white. I didn't connect with any of the other classmates - and even during my start of this job, I got along with the black members of staff more easily.

I'm of course have white I'm close with. But I've always had this feeling we're not quite on the same wavelength, or share the same values.

 

[JonCha]

I think that how fetishistic this is (or isn't) depends on the people involved. OP, if you're on good terms with any of the Black women you've previously dated, they'd be the best people to ask. Them, and your current girlfriend.

I will say that for me, personally, as I've gotten older I've learned to take non-Black men telling me they have a preference for Black people as a huge red flag. Because 9 times out of 10, again in my personal experience, has come with fetishization, often times that the guy themselves weren't acutely aware of.

I will echo that I don't think you mostly dating Black women is in itself a problem. But if it's a trend that you've noticed, and is causing you concern, it's good to at least be aware of it. And always been cognizant of ways in which, even unintentionally, you might be seeing the race of the person you're dating, and not the person.

Click to shrink...

This very similar to our conversation - including your comments about the red flag (especially regarding if we had just matched on an app, and it came up).

i spoken to one of my exes maybe last year and brought it up. She didn't say she has felt I was fetishising her - her blackness never came up during our relationship.

I pride myself on being personality-driven and attraction deriving from connections, and intelligence. In my experience that has gebe with black women and the white women I have gone on dates with/got to know, it hasn't progressed. See my above post about friends in uni too.

I would also say I'm not putting these women on ödes at als and attaching expectations to them. That mehr crosses my mind.

i guess in that 1/10 case, how were you reassured it didn't come with fetishisation? Might it not be the case that I have met these women and connected with them, which has become a trend

 

[Royalan]

i guess in that 1/10 case, how were you reassured it didn't come with fetishisation? Might it not be the case that I have met these women and connected with them, which has become a trend

Click to shrink...

Oh yeah, I think it's very possible for you to have dated these women and truly connected with them, and them being Black was just a coincidence, product of your environment, whatever. I mean, that happens. Its happened to me.

To me, feeling fetishized is one of those things that's kind of hard to put a definite pin in. Because, unless we're talking seriously cartoonish scenarios, it's usually based on feelings and micro-aggressions, y'know things with plausible deniability and a certain amount of is-this-in-my-head? It's vibes.

I will say an immediate clue and turn-off for me is if I get the impression you're telling me you date Black people because you think it will impress me, or challenge me.

If you call me any version of Cocoa, Chocolate Daddy/Ebony Queen, Blackberry Bae (...ok, I made that one up).

If you assume anything of my tastes based on what you believe Black people stereotypically enjoy...hmm, this one isn't a deal-breaker, but it is annoying. lol

I will also admit that when I say 9 times out of 10, it's because I'm thinking of one guy in particular. Who was guilty of none of the above, with whom the topic only came up mostly because I mentioned it. Months into us dating, because I had asked my own version of your question. He was Asian, and it was one of those late-night, laying in bed, "hey...you awake?" conversations that I think minorities tend to have with each other. The kind that result in mutual sharing and vulnerability.

I think it's a good thing, ultimately, that you're cognizant enough of the potential for their to be an issue that you're exploring this question yourself. I think that says a lot.

 

[Valkerion]

This is one of those awkward topics that comes up whenever someone dates "outside their race." I always feel like the difference between fetish and preference/its just kind of working out this way, is pretty clear in its intent if you ever are questioned by it. But of course the asshole responders try to flip these around or correlate them with flimsy preconceived notions. Seems like the OP has actually questioned himself on it though which is always a good first step especially since fetish and preference can/do intersect, same race or not.

Our attraction preferences are built up over our entire lives, there could be a million reasons why you prefer or just honestly take the extra step without knowing it to date a particular type over another. I've kinda stopped questioning personally why I'm attracted to certain things more than others and just trying to not find someone who punches dogs (true story)

 

[julia crawford]

You can give a better answer than this, is it closer to 10, a 100, or a 1000?

Click to shrink...

Lmao no one's been on a 100 dates right

....right....

 

[CarbonCrush]

Lmao no one's been on a 100 dates right

....right....

Click to shrink...

You'd be surprised. Especially now with low effort App dating.

 

[mpak]

I don't understand why it's a big deal to have preference. People have preference towards various, I don't see a reason why should be a difference regarding people.
Just like people having fetish - like liking certain traits or whatever - it is not a problem unless you consider that as such.

 

[Conal]

If you're attracted to black women because you think black women are beautiful that's probably fine.

If you're attracted to black women because you like 'sassy, strong minded women' that's probably not.

 

[Deleted member 41520]

There's a weird and hard to navigate middle ground on this, like a Venn diagram between 'fetish' and 'healthy preference'. It sounds like you're in the latter camp, which is fine. But some people are in the 'fetish' zone where they're fetishizing and objectifying people like this, and others (perhaps OP) are in the middle, where it's a bit of both.

Goes for any preference in a partner IMO. Height, hair, etc, etc. It can be normal, healthy 'liking' of a certain thing you find attractive, or can be objectifying. Just different aspects of people are more or less 'fetishized' in more or less toxically systemic, prejudist ways.

 

[StrapOnFetus]

I too am mostly white, I exclusively date black women as well. They don't put up with bullshit like a white woman would. I like my woman strong and independent.

 

[Ra]

I don't have any particular preference other than I don't think I'd want to date my own race again for what are probably subconscious reasons. I wonder if there is anything wrong there.

Click to shrink...

Yeah there is a serious self-hate problem there.

 

[Kotto]

I too am mostly white, I exclusively date black women as well. They don't put up with bullshit like a white woman would. I like my woman strong and independent.

Click to shrink...

You just joking, right?

 

[Slacker247]

You have a preference? Cool.

I don't have a strong issue with this like some of society does these days. Heck, it's a preference, you're still open to others if it came to it (which is not satisfactory for some Anti-Preference people).

Personally, if someone says to me they like my culture (me being brown dude), I'm fine with that. There is enjoying/appreciating, and then being grossly fetishising.

 

[Ravenwraith]

If your partner is comfortable with you you hardly have a reason to defend or explain youraelf. That's the only person who's opinion really matters.

 

[Legacy]

Back when I was dating on Match.com, I initially didn't have a preference (I'm a black male). I did have a few bad experiences with black women and that sort of put me off a bit. I'm sure it was just coincidence but that sort of made me want to make more of an effort with white women, one of which eventually being my soulmate. I'm aware that's totally a bias but one coming from personal experiences with previous women, rather than just disliking outright.

That being said, the majority of my friends are black and about 65% of them married fine black women, who I get along with really well and are nice, so it was just my luck at the time. I guess it could also be fate because I ended up meeting my future wife and we've been together for 12 years now. As someone who loves videogames as well, I never thought I'd marry a non-gaming white girl but here we are!

 

[Plywood]

Doesn't sound like a fetish, but no harm in being self-aware.