I'm not sure why we're not supposed to provide assistance, but rather, provide the opportunity for them to get assistance by themselves.

[delete12345]

Timestamped in the video below. This video is being passed around on social media right now.

MOD EDIT: Removed video

Not going into details on both sides, but the thing that got my social friends discussing around, both conservatives and liberals, is the idea of giving the citizens the object called "empowerment", starting from where the timestamp begins.

The man in the video said, he disagrees the government should give us handouts, or assistances like food stamps, medical aid, etc. directly to them. If the governments gives you the things you need, you will never going to fight back and "bite the hand that feeds you". Rather, he thinks the government should not do anything. It's not their job to give "handouts", but to give "hand-ups". Meaning, you get to have more control over your life, or in other words, he supports the idea of "individualism", social theory.

The things that my friends are discussing is that. Topics like, how free should one become as the child grows up into adulthood? How to teach the child the things they need to survive? How we shouldn't be teaching the child everything, but rather, let them experience everything themselves?

I couldn't participate in the discussion, so I went out to KFC for snack-down. What I'm not sure about is the idea, in essence, why is line blurred when it comes to providing assistance 100% of the time, or 10% of the time? I need someone to help explain this.

Thanks. If this is a bad topic, just close it.

 

[MinerArcaniner]

I genuinely hate the dogmatic worship of "individualism" in this context, because the underlying logic is wrong to the point of delusion.

Our economy is entirely capable of functioning at a macro level while people go hungry, or homeless, or lose their cars, or get foreclosed on. The shitton of medical debt and college loan debt that so many people carry around isn't stopping rich people from getting richer or corporate profits from going up; in both cases, entire industries are built around keeping those burdens on people's shoulders. The argument is based on the assumption that everyone can 'make it on their own" when the system was never meant to do that, and there's even profit incentives in ensuring they don't. Those government programs are designed to fill in the gaps where the private sector can't or won't provide no matter how hard people work.

At a personal level, I find it disgusting. It's easier to say "I believe people should pull themselves up by their bootstraps" than say "I don't care what happens to other people, whether it's their fault or not." Too often, it's blatant propaganda pushed by people who want to validate their own selfishness, and is a piss poor excuse to bury your head in the sand.

 

[Clefargle]

It's a denial of reality

reality being there are some things that an individual cannot provide for themselves and is more efficient/ethical to provide as a govt service.

 

[Alucrid]

should have gone for the snack-ups

 

[Deleted member 86105]

The problem with the GOP individualism philosophy is that yes, people are given opportunities to do well. But fundamentally, for every handful of winners there will inevitably be a disproportionate amount of losers that prop up their success.

Not everyone can be a millionaire. Not everyone can become successful. Some people still need to be fast food workers, janitors, retail workers, dishwashers, truck drivers, etc. And while the underclass exists, they need to be treated with respect and dignity. They can't struggle to afford basic necessities of life like food and rent.

Republicans don't think about the people who tried and failed. They only rant ad nauseam about individual agency through lower taxes and zero oversight, without realizing that in practice it just enables wealth to flow increasingly to the ultra-rich, at the expense of the poor and middle-class. Modern capitalism as a system rewards those who are filthy rich, and punishes those who are poor. The poor have to dig out of huge holes just to get back to a $0 net worth, never mind become a successful entrepreneur.

For some, like the man in the video, they may be able to make it. But they're one of the lucky ones, and that's not how we should design human society on a fundamental level.

There's this girl I know who's a "self-made millionaire" selling hair care products designed principally for black hair. I used to really root for her, until I took a tour of her factory a few years ago and saw her workers. I asked her about how she treated them and she responded "Oh, they just get minimum wage, they work a few days a week each, and we continuously scale up and down depending on the market." It must really suck to always wonder if you're going to lose your job tomorrow, while your CEO makes millions in profit.

I know it's just a random, personal anecdote but it really stuck with me how stark and disparate their fortunes were.

 

[Chikor]

That's a New Tang Dynasty channel, they are QAnon Trumpsters, it will take us until the heat death of the universe to argue against every dumb point in their videos I'm sure.

Where did you find that shit?
Did the youtube algorithm fed you this?

 

[Alucrid]

That's a New Tang Dynasty channel, they are QAnon Trumpsters, it will take us until the heat death of the universe to argue against every dumb point in their videos I'm sure.

Where did you find that shit?
Did the youtube algorithm fed you this?

Click to shrink...

powdered drink mixes got weird

 

[delete12345]

That's a New Tang Dynasty channel, they are QAnon Trumpsters, it will take us until the heat death of the universe to argue against every dumb point in their videos I'm sure.

Where did you find that shit?
Did the youtube algorithm fed you this?

Click to shrink...

Yes, but it was shared among the folks in my social group. I clicked on other videos without realizing it, and now I have these videos in my recommendations.

In fact, you're the first one to ever mention the NTD channel is a QAnon supporter. I never knew they were related with QAnon for a long while, thinking that some channel my friends are looking at is just some small channel.

 

[Chikor]

Yes, but it shared among the folks in my social group. I clicked on other videos without realizing it, and now I have these videos in my recommendations.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, we had a thread about this shit a few days ago, those things get around.
Didn't mean to sound accusatory, was geniunely curious.
This shit is pretty well camfoulage, got to hand those fuckers that, it's not immediatly obvious.

 

[delete12345]

Yeah, we had a thread about this shit a few days ago, those things get around.
Didn't mean to sound accusatory, was geniunely curious.
This shit is pretty well camfoulage, got to hand those fuckers that, it's not immediatly obvious.

Click to shrink...

No worries. It's good to know what's really going on, and maybe this trip to KFC isn't all that bad.

should have gone for the snack-ups

Click to shrink...

*sigh*

I should've used that.

 

[ClickyCal']

Total modern right wing, bootstraps think. Anyone that gets help loses their Americanism and is "government owned".

 

[Scottt]

The first half of the video shows that he is certainly a purveyor of Republican internet propaganda. He ran through like everything without pause. I hate it.

His name is Billy Prempeh. Thank god he lost his congressional election.

 

[Ramsay]

You need to spend money to make money.

If you're poor, you aren't even given an opportunity to help yourself because the basic necessities that would allow you to do so are all well out of your reach (which is why free college, or at least something like HECS, really should be the standard, same for insurance, healthcare, etc.).

 

[MikeHattsu]

This shit is pretty well camfoulage, got to hand those fuckers that, it's not immediatly obvious.

Click to shrink...

Well, just looking up youtube dude's Twitter he links to in his channel it's full of Maga election fraud kraken stuff

 

[Speevy]

Luck and who you know play a big part in anyone's success. Who has ever discounted the intrinsic value of hard work? No one that I know of. But it doesn't always lead to the rewards it deserves. People shouldn't owe almost 100,000 and need two degrees to get a job that supports them. People shouldn't have to pay tens of thousands of dollars in hospital bills. People shouldn't have to watch their parents worry about whether the government will give their parents enough money to survive, or whether they'll have to work into their 70s.

All of the above situations apply to me, and I'm white. They apply so much more to African Americans. I watch my students, whose parents frequently work two jobs just to afford the basics struggle to afford basic things like reliable transportation to school.

This world is fucking unfair. It starts out cruel, and gets considerably crueler from there depending on who you are.

 

[Karateka]

A libertarian world would inevitably become a hellscape

 

[Walter White Walker]

It's all fun and games until reality hits you in the face and you're in need of help from the government. It can happen to anyone no matter how special you think you are (excepting ridiculously wealthy people).

 

[Scottt]

Yes, but it was shared among the folks in my social group. I clicked on other videos without realizing it, and now I have these videos in my recommendations.

In fact, you're the first one to ever mention the NTD channel is a QAnon supporter. I never knew they were related with QAnon for a long while, thinking that some channel my friends are looking at is just some small channel.

Click to shrink...

I didn't know anything about this channel either. But aside from the channel, the person they are interviewing is a standard conservative Republican. The belief is that government should not impede industry or influence the lives of citizens--or that's how they would phrase it. The result is that they think corporations should not have to abide regulations for things like environmental impacts, worker safety, taxes, or monopolies. They also think that government should not provide citizens with publicly funded education, healthcare, infrastructure, or welfare. Basically: corporatize everything, and individuals are on their own.

If this is going around your social circle, one thing you could ask them is, if this person is so passionately against the notion of governance, why did he run for Congress?

edit: to focus more on your thread title, "the opportunity to assist themselves" is a manipulative way of saying "they are responsible for themselves, no one else is." As an analogy, let's say you need to carry a piano up a set of stairs and it is too heavy for you to do alone. I will stand aside because I want you to have the opportunity to assist yourself. Does that seem like a sensible decision?

 

[Chikor]

Well, just looking up youtube dude's Twitter he links to in his channel it's full of Maga election fraud kraken stuff

Click to shrink...

It's epoch times people, the biggest peddlers of QAnon online and mega Trumpsters.
They have some more reasonably looking channels but shit get cray cray with them usually pretty damn quick, and they're getting better at hiding who they are online.

 

[Salamando]

The frustrating thing is that we even have to debate his worldview. Cut social programs for the have-nots so that the haves can prosper even more? C'mon.

Opportunity is a great word, but it's meaningless when it isn't afforded to everyone in equal amounts. How can you argue for opportunity if the young in this country aren't guaranteed basic necessities like food, healthcare, and good schooling?

 

[Dark Knight]

The lowest paying jobs are generally full time and people still can't make ends meet. You either need to supply social safety nets to society or exponentially increase minimum wage in order for the working poor to afford normal lives. Capitalism has run away with itself. These types probably refuse to focus on such issues and aim their rhetoric at useless and unrealistic platitudes.

 

[VariantX]

If everyone had equal opportunities, yes, but its horribly unequal. Comically unequal. And its getting more unequal by the second. Theres a reason why all the damn payday loan businesses are located in one part of town versus the other.

 

[FeliciaFelix]

The best lies have a grain of truth. I think the conservatives may have a point about people wanting agency and how pressure makes you challenge yourself to be greater. But then they go so batshit insane with it, its hard to take them seriously.

Sure, challenge a kid by making him do chores, thats fine. But starving him to teach him a bizarre life lesson? Dial down the insanity some 98%, then they may have the ghost of a point.

 

[Static]

Stupid rich people, paying money to get their kids the best schooling and good food and plenty of bed rest and warm clothes. Don't they know they're just making them lazy and weak?

 

[CopyOfACopy]

Reminds my of that my cousin vinny ending scene, when he was complaining he didnt win by himself


You win case after case, and then afterwards, you have to go up to somebody and you have to say "Thank you."

Oh, my God. What a fuckin' nightmare.

 

[delete12345]

edit: to focus more on your thread title, "the opportunity to assist themselves" is a manipulative way of saying "they are responsible for themselves, no one else is." As an analogy, let's say you need to carry a piano up a set of stairs and it is too heavy for you to do alone. I will stand aside because I want you to have the opportunity to assist yourself. Does that seem like a sensible decision?

Click to shrink...

Interesting analogy, it is quite a manipulative way when it is phrased like so. I wouldn't want to carry the piano myself while watching people staring at me struggling.

 

[ShyMel]

Please avoid posting from Qanon sources in the future.