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Sieglinde

Member
Feb 20, 2019
970
Hell, many of Nintendo's first party titles aren't doing much better. You've got 2D Kirby and Yoshi games with sub native resolutions running at 30fps lol. Fire Emblem looked (and sometimes ran) rough as hell too.
Yoshi's Crafted World runs at 60 fps, also neither Yoshi nor Kirby have performance issues they are pretty much locked to their targets, and Fire Emblem doesn't drop frames often and most people didn't like the look of its art style but the graphics are completely fine, also none of them had glaring issues or gamebreaking bugs, they even had minimal bugs and glitches Nintendo's own games are doing far far better than the ports this post is referring to.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
Nintendo released Link's Awakening with framerate hitches all over the place, so something about this runs deeper than just careless 3rd parties.

I think the Switch often gets a free pass just because people still marvel at a handheld that is capable of running something very technically demanding.
 

hussien-11

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,315
Jordan
Mortal Kombat 11, Bloodstained, Wolfenstein: Youngblood, ARK, Saint's Row: The Third, RIME, Hyrule Warriors, WWE2k18

What is wrong with Mortal Kombat 11? it looks like a great port and it runs 60fps.

I disagree with this topic. overall there are more quality ports on the system than bad ports. which will happen anyway because this is an entirely different system with different specs and architecture, and it is receiving games that were made with more powerful hardware in mind, it was like when PS2 received ports from games that were made for the original Xbox like Splinter Cell :P

Some ports are bad like Bloodstained and WWE, but many others are great for the hardware and it is great that they released on the system: Dragon Ball FighterZ, Rocket League, Warframe, Skyrim, Doom, The Witcher 3, Snake Pass, Crash Bandicoot games, Valkyria Chronicles 4, Hellblade, Ori and the Blind Forest, RE Revelations 2, Grid Autosport, Paladins, NBA2K, Mortal Kombat 11 and many others.

Don't doubt for a second that developers had to optimize a lot to make those games run on Switch as good as they ended up being for a portable hardware. compared to the last generation portable hardware like Vita, this is a huge jump up in terms of everything: resolution, performance, graphical fidelity... etc.
 

Arcus Felis

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,123
Noticed that too, way too often. This is the reason why I'm not buying multiplatform games on Switch anymore. I love the Switch's concept, but I am not buying broken/bugged/"inferior" versions of games I can get on PC (not to mention that these games aren't stuck on a system, since Nintendo games don't port over new consoles).
Frankly, I'm disappointed in this console nowadays. Still a good system, but the honeymoon phase is over.
 
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kurt

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,747
I'm fine with those ports and most of them are running great, not garbage. Anyway i'm pistoff that those games are comming delayed to switch. Even new games like Bloodstained or outer worlds are not their prio versions and delayed while in my oppinion they sell better on switch. And why gta5 isnt ported yet, while it would sell a lot... Dont see that as port begging, it just to say that it doesnt make sense at all how some developers handling their stuff.
 

Jocchan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
377
Silent Hill
OK. I would simply not buy those games.
This is by far the worst advice to give.

One less copy sold helps no one. No one will ever notice, and it won't make any difference. And if enough people do it, at best it will be taken as lack of interest in the game itself.

Being vocal about a product not being up to par helps making its fix prioritary, of course if that is even possible, or will prevent the next title(s) from releasing in such a sorry state.

All the "shut up and vote with your wallet" posts do is suffocate any attempts at increasing awareness about the defects a product may have.
 

JeffGubb

Giant Bomb
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
842
This is by far the worst advice to give.

One less copy sold helps no one. No one will ever notice, and it won't make any difference.

Being vocal about a product not being up to par helps making its fix prioritary, of course if that is even possible, or will prevent the next title(s) from releasing in such a sorry state.

All the "shut up and vote with your wallet" posts do is suffocate any attempts at increasing awareness about the defects a product may have.
Look. I'm not saying don't criticize. I'm saying that we know a lot of developers have issues getting games to run well on an underpowered console. It's not shocking anymore. And for your own sanity, you should probably skip those games.
 

Deleted member 19742

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 27, 2017
703
As per usual, Nintendo fans taking this as a personal offense.
As per usual, useless generalizations and drive by posts to be found in a given complaint thread (though the OP not listing any games really didn't help their case).

Still, since this thread is here, I'll again bemoan that the Grandia ports releasing with ridiculous bugs (especially the Grandia 2 port; at least the first Grandia seemed to "only" have the music bug) was especially mind boggling. Here's hoping patches for the game really do drop in November...even if the performance of the PC port still isn't great.
 

Jocchan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
377
Silent Hill
Look. I'm not saying don't criticize. I'm saying that we know a lot of developers have issues getting games to run well on an underpowered console. It's not shocking anymore. And for your own sanity, you should probably skip those games.
Absolutely.
But let's not kid ourselves and pretend the root cause is always the console being too underpowered.

Most of the time it's more likely to be connected to rushed schedules, lack of resources/experience, bad management or choices that didn't pay off.

It happens, and sometimes can't really be avoided. But sometimes there's ways around it, which may appear more expensive at first but may end up paying dividends later down the line.
 

Bartis

Member
Dec 30, 2017
254
A large mainstream audience doesn't have a clue what 'performance' in videogames is. Thus, everyone and their mother seem to think the Switch can run every game available. The Switch can run a lot, but a large number of studios just don't have the money, let alone the spirit to make a decent port. Just inform yourself and don't buy them. In those last 2 things lies the problem I think.
 

Moist_Owlet

Banned
Dec 26, 2017
4,148
A lot of games feel unfinished and broken at launch on every system these days.

Bloodstained on switch was/is insultingly bad though.
 

Igor

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,480
I'm tired of nintendo treating ports as new game in general. Just give us new games or exclusives goddamn.
This year alone (last 6 months, even) we have Super Mario Maker 2, Astral Chain, Fire Emblem, Luigi's Mansion and Pokemon. WTF are you talking about?
 

Igor

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,480
Well true ,but I guess none met my expectation except AC and maybe pokemon.
Also oast year was pretty dead.

"None of them" would imply Fire Emblem and SMM2 - I think you are twisting the reality a bit here.

Besides, it's your problem if you find these exclusives underwhelming tbh.
 

Dphex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,811
Cologne, Germany
Frankly, I'm disappointed in this console nowadays. Still a good system, but the honeymoon phase is over.

i was disappointed with the device since day one. as soon as i was walking around the Hyrule Plains and the game began to stutter it was clear that the device doesn´t have enough power to satisfy me. didn´t help that i found the game really boring too.

and the releases this year made it even more clear...Fire Emblem running like shit, Astral Chain with severe jaggies, 30fps and smallish areas, most first party releases without any anti aliasing at all...Links Awakening was also let down by the hardware.

and don´t even get me started on the awful Dpads on Joycon/Pro Controller...the Switch is a system of compromises at every corner which seems cool for many people but for me it is just underwhelming. Even if there are cool games it is always the feeling of "well, that would have been much better on beefier hardware" (like Astral Chain for example).

big games on the device also don´t wow me and i am of the original game boy generation...i just don´t care about the fact that "big games" can be played on a small screen because the thing gives me the cramps and a sore neck when playing longer. ergonomically, the system is a nightmare, it doesn´t feel good to play in handheld mode.

i am really down on this system by now, it doesn´t provide great experiences for me. hopefully the Ring Fit thing will be cool, would like to have even one thing i like on the device...
 
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TaySan

SayTan
Member
Dec 10, 2018
31,404
Tulsa, Oklahoma
Honestly unless the game is running in the low/sub 20 fps or something it's just something you have to deal with as a console gamer. Consoles don't have the hardware customization level of a PC to where you can control the performance level you desire.

Game breaking bugs are no excuse and i'm with you on that.
 

Kaivan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,390
the Switch is a system of compromises at every corner.
It's basically this. All for the sake of portability.

However, I wouldn't say that the hardware is at fault here. There are lots of examples of well optimized Switch games too, coming from 1st and 3rd party devs. The main difference is that some of the devs aware that Switch owners will buy everything despite the issues. Optimizations be damned.
 

cowbanana

Member
Feb 2, 2018
13,670
a Socialist Utopia
The worst thing is Nintendo's own first party games running like complete garbage.

Fire Emblem: Three Houses is technically abysmal when running around the monastery, some places much worse than others but generally the PS2 level environment runs like shit - fps go into single digits near the online vendors!

Link's Awakening is another technical turd. It's not unplayable by any means, but the frame rate stutter is detracting from the overall experience. It feels janky and unpolished as hell.

Disappointing lack of quality and polish.
 

Jimrpg

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,280
I just don't pay $60 for games anymore - just play something else till the sales roll around.
 

Deleted member 5596

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,747
What I'm surprised is how badly some 2D games runs on the system. I don't expect indie games to be perfectly optimized, but happens often enough to avoid them unless you see they run well.

Other consoles or PC avoids the issue with raw power, Switch does bit have that luxury and it shows.
 

jman2050

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,788
It's not even a "Switch port" thing, that part of the topic could be abstracted out entirely. What it comes down to is that a good portion of the programmers who work in game development nowadays are not actually all that good at their jobs. In fact many are outright out of their depths.

They take prepared assets built for prepared game engines using prepared programming tools following prepared instructions from their managers following prepared conventions they learned from their run-of-the-mill comp sci courses on hardware so cutting edge they don't even have to spend a single thought on silly time wasters like "performance" or "optimization" or "knowing how their game actually works beyond an extremely surface-level understanding"

When that happens, bugs happen with frequency, no one knows how to actually fix those bugs with any expediency because they don't know enough about the inner workings of their game, and because of the extremely tight schedules modern game development works under those bugs (which they know exist before release. They always know these bugs exist, don't kid yourselves) just get shipped with the game to be fixed later, and by "fixed" I mean they don't actually fix any of the underlying issues in their code, they just find some kind of quick and dirty workaround that seems fine until the next batch of bugs inevitably show up that require even more quick and dirty workarounds.

In short, it sucks.
 

Nacho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,110
NYC
Mortal Kombat 11, Bloodstained, Wolfenstein: Youngblood, ARK, Saint's Row: The Third, RIME, Hyrule Warriors, WWE2k18
Does ark or wwe perform well on anything?

Rime was fine, at least I didn't notice much. Haven't heard much about the other ones not playing well, but in general I think people tend to over react to switch performance because they have incredibly unrealistic expectations of what it's capable of. Many games play perfectly acceptably, which is amazing for current gen ports, but because there are dips or low res people freak out.

No offense but if you can't handle that, buy those games on a different platform. It's nice to have options!

Going back to ark tho, yeah the publisher should be ashamed they put that out what a shit show.
 

SapientWolf

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,565
What I'm surprised is how badly some 2D games runs on the system. I don't expect indie games to be perfectly optimized, but happens often enough to avoid them unless you see they run well.

Other consoles or PC avoids the issue with raw power, Switch does bit have that luxury and it shows.
Yeah, I'm not under the illusion that devs suddenly starting giving extra love to the PC.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,524
Games with bad/garbage performance:

-Firewatch (I mean wtf?)
-A hat in time
-Saints Row 3
-Rime
-Lego Games

and a few more I can't remember atm.
 

Nacho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,110
NYC
The worst thing is Nintendo's own first party games running like complete garbage.

Fire Emblem: Three Houses is technically abysmal when running around the monastery, some places much worse than others but generally the PS2 level environment runs like shit - fps go into single digits near the online vendors!

Link's Awakening is another technical turd. It's not unplayable by any means, but the frame rate stutter is detracting from the overall experience. It feels janky and unpolished as hell.

Disappointing lack of quality and polish.
To be fair, fire emblem and Link's Awakening weren't developed by first party studios. Fe was koei tecmo and la was grezzo. Even pokemon is probably going to suffer from a lesser studio not used to the switch making it so prepare for that.

I have a feeling those titles have a lot to do with rushing them out to make sure there's no droughts like the Wii u. At least Fe isn't bad during real gameplay, la makes no sense whatsoever.
 

SwitchedOff

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,516
Dark Souls Remastered's compresses audio completely ruined the game for me. It looked and ran fine, but it sounded like I was playing it on a DS.

That's what stopped me buying the game. The publisher could have easily solved the issue by offering a free 'HD audio' pack to download but for some inane reason didn't bother. What a wasted opportunity.
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,996
It still has drops but they definitely patched it for the better. At launch the game was straight up pausing at times before the first patch hit. Now it's only the forest where the game struggles.
It is definitely not just the Korok Forest which has bad frame rate drops. I've been playing through it again recently and got extremely motion sick with the trek to Zora's Domain due to how bad the frame rate is there, and there have been many other times when the frame rate got so bad I had to take a break from playing.
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,910
That's what stopped me buying the game. The publisher could have easily solved the issue by offering a free 'HD audio' pack to download but for some inane reason didn't bother. What a wasted opportunity.
Again, the audio's not even super compressed, it's just super badly done. It just needs a patch period but Scamco can't be bothered.
 

Tobor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,425
Richmond, VA
Some what tangential but this is why I often wait a few months after a game is released before purchasing. Sometimes the devs can figure things out and a game ends up being just fine. However I agree that the axiom, "a bad game is bad forever" holds true and studios should take more care to make a good first impression.

Related, does anyone know if there's a site that reviews games not when they are first released, but say six months post launch? That would be an interesting way to review games in this day and age.

It's not tangential at all. If you hate games that are released requiring a patch that comes weeks or months later...wait! Don't buy it until it's fixed.

Release day for any game these days is just a beta. Treat it as such.
 

Gifmaker

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
964
OK. I would simply not buy those games.
That's what I do and yeah, it's a stance, but does not solve the problem at hand. See, I want to play both Rime and Bloodstained, both of which I still haven't bought because of performance issues. I am willing to pay for those games if their performance is acceptable though, and as much as I want to play them, their publishers probably want my money. So something should be done that would satisfy both parties, ie release higher quality ports.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,487
It is definitely not just the Korok Forest which has bad frame rate drops. I've been playing through it again recently and got extremely motion sick with the trek to Zora's Domain due to how bad the frame rate is there, and there have been many other times when the frame rate got so bad I had to take a break from playing.

I played the whole game unpatched on the WiiU. That was a shit performing game. After it was patched on the Switch I personally didnt find anything too egregious. There are still drops but Zora's Domain is one place in particular I remember the framerate being dramatically improved.
 

buset

Member
Jul 25, 2018
414
Due to having a kid and lots of work this summer I have mostly played games on my Switch since early spring, and I've been feeling that people are harsh on Switch games and their performance on this forum, as I have thought they almost always run just fine (FE, Links awakening etc).

I just came back to my PS4 Pro and started playing two games I've been really looking forward to; Control and The Surge 2. Both of these run really inconsistent with a lot of bugs on my PS4 Pro and I feel if these were released on the Switch in this state, people would go mad.
 

Minsc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,119
There's more than enough games ported perfectly to ever play, so it doesn't bother me much personally. If you don't find there to be enough games ported well, then it sucks your tastes are so narrow, oh well. Hope a Switch 2 is capable of running the games in higher performance.
 

zoodoo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,731
Montreal
I recall these feelings when some ports were being released on the Vita. It sucked.
Switch owners dont know how good they have it lol. I was a vita port victim and while I love that console, so many ports where garbage. Borderlands 2 was the worst but there are many others. I dropped Bastion cause the audio (most acclaimed part of the game) was buggy. AC liberation and Spiderman literally gave me nausea because of performance issues. Boy and his Blob which is not supposed to be a taxing game was constantly crashing. Getting a patch that fixed a game on vita was a miracle and an exception to the rule.

I'm definetely not defending shitty switch ports but coming from vita I cant complain. 30fps and late patches were the least of my problem playing vita ports.

Buying a switch I knew what I was getting into having experience with hanhelds. The best ports are always the once designed with the device limitations in mind. Nowadays devs dont have the time or funding to do that anymore like during the gameboy days. So they try to brute force the ports and the result can be pretty bad. Some actually blew my mind like Warframe. But most are going to cut corners. I'm just glad I can play Tales of Vesperia portable.
 

Deleted member 3017

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,653
Due to having a kid and lots of work this summer I have mostly played games on my Switch since early spring, and I've been feeling that people are harsh on Switch games and their performance on this forum, as I have thought they almost always run just fine (FE, Links awakening etc).

I just came back to my PS4 Pro and started playing two games I've been really looking forward to; Control and The Surge 2. Both of these run really inconsistent with a lot of bugs on my PS4 Pro and I feel if these were released on the Switch in this state, people would go mad.
To be fair, people did go pretty crazy over Control's console issues. Which makes sense, as it performed worse at launch than almost any Switch game.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,737
I didn't realize until this thread that people see MK11 for the Switch as a bad release. It find it plays great and honestly I play it way more than the copy I have for my One X.
 

Effect

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,945
Mortal Kombat 11, Bloodstained, Wolfenstein: Youngblood, ARK, Saint's Row: The Third, RIME, Hyrule Warriors, WWE2k18
ARK is in its own special category of BS. That shit should be delisted from the eShop. I would only put WWE2K18 near it. The others have issues but I think they're pretty far from that crap. I'm so glad I didn't spend money on Ark but I don't think I've ever been as pissed as I was and sometimes am for how that game turned out for people that bought it that just honestly want to play a game like that on the system they own and on the go. I've never hated a publisher/developer as much as I do Wildcard, especially since they've refused to even let the porting studio that seemed to not have that much support in the first place even patch the game and it seemed like they very much wanted to because their name is attached to it.

I agree I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with how many of these games are being released. Especially when it's clear there are similar games that do get released that don't suffer from many of these issues. That tells me the system itself isn't the issue in the end because you do have 1st party and 3rd party releases without these issues. It's why I've refocused my attention to indie titles. It's something I ended up doing back on the Wii U when was tired of how the few 3rd party games we did end up getting turned out.

Now I'm completely understanding when a game is doing something very complex and performance takes a hit. Especially given the Switch's size and power. I have no tolerance though when that crap happens with games that released on past systems, past Nintendo systems at that, and perform worse when the Switch is actually more advance than those systems. Same goes for a 2D game! That is 100% unacceptable.
 
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ShinobiBk

One Winged Slayer
Member
Dec 28, 2017
10,121
Yoshi's Crafted World runs at 60 fps, also neither Yoshi nor Kirby have performance issues they are pretty much locked to their targets, and Fire Emblem doesn't drop frames often and most people didn't like the look of its art style but the graphics are completely fine, also none of them had glaring issues or gamebreaking bugs, they even had minimal bugs and glitches Nintendo's own games are doing far far better than the ports this post is referring to.

The graphics in Fire Emblem are not completely fine. The textures look like complete shit. There are pre-rendered backgrounds in a ton of cutscenes that look like they came straight out of a PS1 game, complete with low resolution and the seams not even lining up

Seems like you got it backwards where the majority of people like the art style and character design but everything else in the game looks terrible.

And yes Yoshi ran at 60fps, at the cost of tanking the resolution below 720p in docked mode. That is a joke for a game releasing in 2019
 
Developer Perspective #1

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,319
Hell, I'd love to hear from a developer who could offer some insight from their side of the equation in this thread.

Sure thing.

1. Most indies (myself included) barely know what they're doing so it's easy to make stupid mistakes.

2. Most game developers develop and test on good PCs. If you don't test your game early on in development on your weakest target hardware, you can discover late in development that your game just won't work there, requiring lots of heavy reworking. At this point, many developers don't have the money to do the time-consuming work and just do the bare minimum to get the thing to run. Personally, I ran into this problem with Cosmic Star Heroine - when I first tried to run it on our Vita devkit, the game almost immediately crashed. It took me months to get it working on the devkit and months after that to get it working on actual Vita hardware (the devkit is beefed up compared to actual consume hardware). As a nice side effect, since I managed to get it to run okay on the Vita, performance is excellent on the much more powerful Switch.

3. Games are frequently worked on until the last minute. A last-minute fix for one problem often causes problems elsewhere that aren't realized until someone spots them.

4. There's a lot of bureacracy involved in getting a patch approved on consoles so even if you have a fix, it could take days or even weeks before you can actually give it to players.

5. Your average indie dev teams' playtesting/debugging resources are themselves. Like with our last game (a 10-16 hour JRPG), I think only one of my friends / fellow devs actually played through the whole thing before launch. Most of them played a couple hours and then told me they'd rather wait for the finished version. Nobody was playing the game multiple times on different versions. Basically, Bill and I had to play the game over and over. As only two people, we were going to miss stuff. And at some point, you're so sick of playing the game that you just want to ship the thing.

6. Games are far bigger and more complex under the hood now than they were in days long past. Because of this, debugging is much more difficult and there's only so much that more time and money can do.

7. In the end, the number of people playing a released game is generally going to be exponentially bigger than the number of people who worked on it or tested it. A million people playing a game are going to find bugs that dozens of playtesters missed.