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Oct 27, 2017
6,888
www.ign.com

This Is What Happens When a Video Game Leaks - IGN

Why and how video game leaks happen, and the mayhem it can cause for devs and gamers.

More at the link.

This is the question that affects everyone in the video game industry. Leaks are a fact of life for reporters, studio heads, and Reddit dwellers alike. But where is the statute of limitations? How do we know when a leak transforms from a relevant exclusive to an icky feeling of sabotage -- something that can cause a lot of pain in unsuspecting people? That's the question I posed to Jason Schreier, formerly of Kotaku and now at Bloomberg, who's been responsible for more scoops than anyone else on the gaming beat. He gave me a clarifying example of his personal philosophy. In 2013, he acquired a bundle of script pages from the then-unannounced Fallout 4. Those pages included explicit details of some of that game's major plot beats. But Schreier opted not to publish that part of his newsgathering, and instead used his knowledge to simply confirm that Fallout 4 was set in Boston, and more importantly, a real game in active development at Bethesda.

"The potential harm you might cause to game developers is one of the many factors worth considering when you're deciding whether or not to report on a leak that's been sent your way," says Schreier. "I've certainly made missteps on this front over the years, but I've also made people mad with reports that I still think were necessary and justifiable."

Tim Willits, formerly the studio director at Id and currently COO of Saber Interactive, tells me that one employee snapped a photo of his friends in the office which happened to contain a work-in-progress firearm model in frame. Once the damage is done, it can be absolutely devastating for a team member to hold that blame. In general, Willits felt a responsibility to make sure that any inadvertent in-house leaks are handled with compassion, rather than punishment.

"They feel terrible. They say, 'Are you going to fire me?' No one has ever been fired for making a mistake, but they feel so bad for letting their team down. At the moment, it is a huge deal. But ultimately? It's not a huge deal."

Willits has been in the video game industry for more than 20 years. Broadly, he considers leaks to be an unshakable reality in this business, and tells me that he'd rather have people desperate for information about the stuff his team is working on, than a withering ambivalence of the content behind closed doors. After all, what's more validating than a community drooling over a shotgun model?

"That thirst is what makes our job worth doing," says Willits. "That people are so desperate to know about our games that they're looking for any hints. I wouldn't have it any other way."
 

Owlet

Owl Enthusiast
Verified
May 30, 2018
1,930
London, UK
I vividly remember that Fallout 4 leak.

I feel strange about leaks.

I enjoy them to a certain extent, but if a leak is as big as TLOU2 then I really feel bad.
 

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
q3M8wFP.png
 

Savantcore

Member
Oct 28, 2017
880
I think certain detail leaks are ok. I've never really understood the secrecy in video game development. Obviously stuff that is still a work-in-progress should be kept under wraps until it's confirmed, but I don't see any reason to hide the location of where a game is set, for example.

Story spoilers though, that's not on. I guess it's up to the discretion of the reporter to judge what is suitable and the best journos have the best senses around these things.
 

Kida

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,899
Story spoilers or big asset leaks? Harmful.

Revealing that a game is in development or light details? Whatever.
 

Illusion

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,407
I like the mentality of they like knowing there are people out there wanting juicy leak info of their games.

I love leaks and their delicious leaky goodness. I love knowing things about games I want. I hate the red tape and secrecy. I want to know what I'm buying.
 

Onix555

Member
Apr 23, 2019
3,380
UK
I like the mentality of they like knowing there are people out there wanting juicy leak info of their games.

I love leaks and their delicious leaky goodness. I love knowing things about games I want. I hate the red tape and secrecy. I want to know what I'm buying.
The opposite is also true, that gamers are absolutely livid because of the leaks, and you have to go into work every day knowing that the precious work you're crafting is rejected before you can ever show it off.
 

HylianSeven

Shin Megami TC - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,036
Leaks are a weird double edge sword. I'm all for leaks about horrible practices companies do leaking, because I think the industry and the world needs to hear about those things and stop them. Stuff like the work hours expectations of the Fortnite devs, or all the things that went on in BioWare, all the companies pulling the "no one's holding a gun to their head" defense to get them to work late hours.

Hearing about cancelled projects, or other things of that nature is always really interesting. I LOVE that kind of stuff.

On the other hand I think leaking details about the game the company was waiting to use as a surprise is kind of shitty, but I also don't blame journalists for reporting on leaks they get. Some leaks of stuff like that have led to really interesting scenarios. For instance, Mario + Rabbids Kindgom Battle leaked, and at first people really hated it and it kind of demoralized the team. Then it was shown at E3 2017 and people loved it to the point where the dev was actually crying tears of joy.

Devs actually making something out of leaks happening can be fun though. Remember Rage 2?

 

Cyberclops

Member
Mar 15, 2019
1,439
The opposite is also true, that gamers are absolutely livid because of the leaks, and you have to go into work every day knowing that the precious work you're crafting is rejected before you can ever show it off.

Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle is good example of this. Luckily the game was able to win over almost everyone by the time it launched.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
Story spoilers or big asset leaks? Harmful.

Revealing that a game is in development or light details? Whatever.

That's my stance basically. I get companies are super obsessed with how their game is marketed but I don't think the effect is as bad as they think it is.
 
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ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,492
I like the mentality of they like knowing there are people out there wanting juicy leak info of their games.

I love leaks and their delicious leaky goodness. I love knowing things about games I want. I hate the red tape and secrecy. I want to know what I'm buying.
Then wait for the games to come out and see all the details. Most people don't want to know the entire story and everything.
 

delete12345

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 17, 2017
19,671
Boston, MA
The mayhem I can definitely see when it comes to works being leaked out from dev teams, is the dev teams aren't prepared to face what's to come towards their way when the leak is out in public.

If you suddenly get an influx of comments ranging from opinions to criticisms of your works, you will get some emotional distraught. It's like you're getting rich overnight, and now you fear for your safety from burglary all because someone posted a picture of you winning the check.
 

Maeros

Member
Dec 21, 2017
381
Oh yeah this topic always makes me angry. Because no leak should happen. Jason Schreier... great that you decide what you can leak and what you cant. how about leak nothing? Maybe for the guys on the design team they loved to reveal Boston on a big stage and wow the fans with their idea's. You can say.. well i didnt leaked any design specifics. Doesnt matter, you cant decide for the devs what matters to them.

And im sure there are devs who dont mind the leaks. But a team excists of hundrets. Some do care and its not for you to decide.

Its also not important so you cant say its journalism and its my duty. Writing about bad habits in the industry is.. sure. But leaks? Thats just gossiping. Like some hollywood paper.
 
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GMM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,481
It's the correct attitude to have, things happen if you intend it to or not, it's better that people actually want to look at small bits of media than not caring about it at all.

There are however instances where I think leaks should be taken pretty seriously, like the infamous leaks for Half-Life 2, Doom 3 and The Last of Us 2 most recently, gaining access to development servers and stealing from them is serious and the intent is malicious from the beginning.

I was also very put off with how Kotaku leaked tons of media from Assassins Creed Unity before they even had the chance to announce it, with the excuse that someone else would just do it instead. It's a piss poor excuse for disappointing the hundreds of developers working on it that wants nothing more than show their work off in the best way possible, taking that moment away from those developers is an incredibly shitty thing to do and can negatively affect what they have been creating, yet a choice was made to run that story regardless.
 

Night Hunter

Member
Dec 5, 2017
2,794
This really depends for me on the kind of leak.

If it is revealed that company A is working on videogame title B, yeah, fuck you and your weird obsession with secrecy.

Posting the story online is a whole different beast, but honestly, happens all the time in movies and nobody gives a fuck. Then again, people aren't going out of their way to spoil others for most movies.
 

Deleted member 135

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,682
Oh yeah this topic always makes me angry. Because no leak should happen. Jason Schreier... great that you decide what you can leak and what you cant. how about leak nothing? Maybe for the guys on the design team they loved to reveal Boston on a big stage and wow the fans with their idea's. You can say.. well i didnt leaked any design specifics. Doesnt matter, you cant decide for the devs what matters to them.

And im sure there are devs who dont mind the leaks. But a team excists of hundrets. Some do care and its not for you to decide.
You and the developers don't get to decide what journalists can and cannot publish.
 

Illusion

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,407
Then wait for the games to come out and see all the details. Most people don't want to know the entire story and everything.
Because I'm impatient, excited, and love knowing things before I shouldn't. If I don't want to know ill just not read it. If its spoiled I don't take it personally and know its not going to ruin my experience.

To me knowing the plot points mean nothing. Because a good game is experiencing it as a whole from start to finish. Knowing the entire story in written and broken down into a few paragraphs compared to the entire game experience are two completely different things.

Knowing game assets, skins, models, characters, etc. Is what I typically look into. Like say Pokemon and seeing all the designs. Knowing how much of something I'm getting. How much content there is. Because all of that will never be advertised because of the "mystery" factor game companies want. I hate that. I want to know what I'm paying for because I want to play on day one. Because yes I'm impatient. But I should be able to make a somewhat informed decision on a game's release then to buy some title and be disappointed. Or to find out the game's content was sparse or has terrible models to monetize the game play via loot boxes and the such.

So all in all: I like the feeling of knowing. I like the power of knowing as a consumer. I like discussing and theorizing sparses of leaked information. And the excitement or disappointment follows me to launch and I enjoy that. Because I like knowing things and then experiencing a game with the bits of information I want to know.
 

Blizz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,405
Oh yeah this topic always makes me angry. Because no leak should happen. Jason Schreier... great that you decide what you can leak and what you cant. how about leak nothing? Maybe for the guys on the design team they loved to reveal Boston on a big stage and wow the fans with their idea's. You can say.. well i didnt leaked any design specifics. Doesnt matter, you cant decide for the devs what matters to them.

And im sure there are devs who dont mind the leaks. But a team excists of hundrets. Some do care and its not for you to decide.

Its also not important so you cant say its journalism and its my duty. Writing about bad habits in the industry is.. sure. But leaks? Thats just gossiping. Like some hollywood paper.
Leaks bring clicks, clicks bring money, money pays rent, bills and food, journalists need to pay all those, it's quite simple to understand really.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,571
Leaks are a weird double edge sword. I'm all for leaks about horrible practices companies do leaking, because I think the industry and the world needs to hear about those things and stop them. Stuff like the work hours expectations of the Fortnite devs, or all the things that went on in BioWare, all the companies pulling the "no one's holding a gun to their head" defense to get them to work late hours.

Hearing about cancelled projects, or other things of that nature is always really interesting. I LOVE that kind of stuff.

On the other hand I think leaking details about the game the company was waiting to use as a surprise is kind of shitty, but I also don't blame journalists for reporting on leaks they get. Some leaks of stuff like that have led to really interesting scenarios. For instance, Mario + Rabbids Kindgom Battle leaked, and at first people really hated it and it kind of demoralized the team. Then it was shown at E3 2017 and people loved it to the point where the dev was actually crying tears of joy.

Devs actually making something out of leaks happening can be fun though. Remember Rage 2?


They should've sent Walmart only copies with their "wrong" boxart to be honest.
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
Oh yeah this topic always makes me angry. Because no leak should happen. Jason Schreier... great that you decide what you can leak and what you cant. how about leak nothing? Maybe for the guys on the design team they loved to reveal Boston on a big stage and wow the fans with their idea's. You can say.. well i didnt leaked any design specifics. Doesnt matter, you cant decide for the devs what matters to them.

And im sure there are devs who dont mind the leaks. But a team excists of hundrets. Some do care and its not for you to decide.

Its also not important so you cant say its journalism and its my duty. Writing about bad habits in the industry is.. sure. But leaks? Thats just gossiping. Like some hollywood paper.
If he didn't someone else would have got the scoop

I rather dude get paid for breaking a story than some alt right kid posts it on 4chan and we make a 200 page thread about it.
 

Rhaknar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
42,467
im fine / like "this game exists" leaks, shit like the TLOU2 leak is obviously fucked.
 

Nakenorm

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
22,286
Story spoilers or big asset leaks? Harmful.

Revealing that a game is in development or light details? Whatever.

Yeah that's pretty much it.
Except a reveal can be pretty damn impactful of it comes out of nowhere. Like the RE7 reveal was crazy, but I imagine it wouldn't have been as awesome if we already knew it was in development and the kitchen was a demo for it.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,043
I like the fallout example, you can report on something and not be malicious about it
 
Jun 1, 2018
4,523
Oh yeah this topic always makes me angry. Because no leak should happen. Jason Schreier... great that you decide what you can leak and what you cant. how about leak nothing? Maybe for the guys on the design team they loved to reveal Boston on a big stage and wow the fans with their idea's. You can say.. well i didnt leaked any design specifics. Doesnt matter, you cant decide for the devs what matters to them.

And im sure there are devs who dont mind the leaks. But a team excists of hundrets. Some do care and its not for you to decide.

Its also not important so you cant say its journalism and its my duty. Writing about bad habits in the industry is.. sure. But leaks? Thats just gossiping. Like some hollywood paper.

I like the fallout example, you can report on something and not be malicious about it

The IGN article makes it sound like Jason only leaked the setting which is completely false.
He leaked several pages of the script which is much worse.
He had no problem leaking the script for Fallout 4. Literally ruining the surprise for Bethesda to show off their hard work to fans.
 

T002 Tyrant

Member
Nov 8, 2018
8,947
It's the main reason I've not leaked my info, I think it'd do irreversible damage to the developers by saying what I know, and I have too much respect for them to say anymore than what I've said publicly, it's killing me knowing something others don't know though.
 

Komo

Info Analyst
Verified
Jan 3, 2019
7,110
It's the main reason I've not leaked my info, I think it'd do irreversible damage to the developers by saying what I know, and I have too much respect for them to say anymore than what I've said publicly, it's killing me knowing something others don't know though.
In due time people will know and if they don't know, and it doesn't ever come into fruition then just talk about it then. This is sorta why I'm waiting on the information I have on some supposedly upcoming games that have swapped devs one too many times since I want to see if the game gets cancelled or not.
 

Secretofmateria

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,424
It's the main reason I've not leaked my info, I think it'd do irreversible damage to the developers by saying what I know, and I have too much respect for them to say anymore than what I've said publicly, it's killing me knowing something others don't know though.
giphy.gif

lol its a nice spot to be in, no reason to worry about wheather or not something is being made. I also have some knowledge, but i moreso worry about putting my friends at risk. So i just keep my mouth shut. Its why i dont quite get leaker culture. By saying something you are actively putting folks at risk, yet they put stuff out there knowing people will hound them for more
 

fadeawayjae

Member
May 31, 2019
320
Any devs in here would like share their opinions on leaks? I am definitely interested if a game you may have worked on was leaked. Was the leak big or small? Did it affect the game negatively or positively? How much do sales are affected by a leak?
 

LunaSerena

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,525
Because I'm impatient, excited, and love knowing things before I shouldn't. If I don't want to know ill just not read it. If its spoiled I don't take it personally and know its not going to ruin my experience.

To me knowing the plot points mean nothing. Because a good game is experiencing it as a whole from start to finish. Knowing the entire story in written and broken down into a few paragraphs compared to the entire game experience are two completely different things.

Knowing game assets, skins, models, characters, etc. Is what I typically look into. Like say Pokemon and seeing all the designs. Knowing how much of something I'm getting. How much content there is. Because all of that will never be advertised because of the "mystery" factor game companies want. I hate that. I want to know what I'm paying for because I want to play on day one. Because yes I'm impatient. But I should be able to make a somewhat informed decision on a game's release then to buy some title and be disappointed. Or to find out the game's content was sparse or has terrible models to monetize the game play via loot boxes and the such.

So all in all: I like the feeling of knowing. I like the power of knowing as a consumer. I like discussing and theorizing sparses of leaked information. And the excitement or disappointment follows me to launch and I enjoy that. Because I like knowing things and then experiencing a game with the bits of information I want to know.
Isn't it easier to wait for release? You'll have your full info then, and playing on day two or three isn't different from playing on day one - you won't miss out on anything.
I think lot of people that play on day one is because they're truly excited for the game but want to avoid the spoilers that inevitably come up after the game has launched.

Personally, I don't mind if they confirm that studio X is working on Y title, but anything after that I hate. I remember the Mario + Rabbids leak, and the way the leak was presented made the game seem really shitty when in reality its one of the best Switch titles. The dev team must have felt awful to see all that toxic responses.....
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,659
Oh yeah this topic always makes me angry. Because no leak should happen. Jason Schreier... great that you decide what you can leak and what you cant. how about leak nothing? Maybe for the guys on the design team they loved to reveal Boston on a big stage and wow the fans with their idea's. You can say.. well i didnt leaked any design specifics. Doesnt matter, you cant decide for the devs what matters to them.

And im sure there are devs who dont mind the leaks. But a team excists of hundrets. Some do care and its not for you to decide.

Its also not important so you cant say its journalism and its my duty. Writing about bad habits in the industry is.. sure. But leaks? Thats just gossiping. Like some hollywood paper.

Comments like this, where people argue that the gaming media should literally just be an extension of publisher PR, are always baffling to me.

Schreier is a reporter. He breaks news stories because that is what reporters do. Sorry if you don't like it.
 

Illusion

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,407
Isn't it easier to wait for release? You'll have your full info then, and playing on day two or three isn't different from playing on day one - you won't miss out on anything.
I think lot of people that play on day one is because they're truly excited for the game but want to avoid the spoilers that inevitably come up after the game has launched.

Because I'm impatient and I enjoy talking about the leaks to release. I like the hype that builds up to release having things to look forward too.

Just let me enjoy things the way I enjoy them.
 

Jam

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,050
I like the fallout example, you can report on something and not be malicious about it

Definitely, there's a lot of nuance to it. A lot journalists know a lot more about unannounced properties, but them withholding that information is paramount to the relationship between themselves and publishers - as well as the publications they represent. Even NDA-less content, they still need to question if them putting that information out there serves any purpose beyond additional clicks of being first and the other possible ramifications.

And gaming, like every other industry, selectively complain about leaks but also themselves use them to their advantage.
 

Tohsaka

Member
Nov 17, 2017
6,791
Leaking the existence of a game or minor details is fine with me, I don't want to know plot spoilers though.
 

lt519

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,064
Leaking the existence of a game or minor details is fine with me, I don't want to know plot spoilers though.

Yeah, that's mostly how I feel with the caveat that timing is important too. I don't feel like it is necessary or useful to leak an entire E3/Direct line-up hours before the show even if it is relatively "harmless." A few months/weeks in advance, sure, they can pivot and show some other things. A few hours before, what does that accomplish?
 

Arex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,496
Indonesia
Accidental leaks I'm okay with because well, it's accident. But it's when it's intentional leak that I find hurtful. If people give you access to confidential information, that's because they trust you, or more likely, it's because you're part of the team. I know things from my previous employment that I still keep confidential because I respect my (ex lol) teammates.

Someone who hacked game companies and leaked shit though, fuck them.
 

Secretofmateria

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,424
Comments like this, where people argue that the gaming media should literally just be an extension of publisher PR, are always baffling to me.

Schreier is a reporter. He breaks news stories because that is what reporters do. Sorry if you don't like it.

most gaming media Is an expansion of publisher pr to be fair. there aren't alot of investigative games journalists outside of schreier and a few other people. Most of games media waits for these people to crack stories than ign or whoever will have their own small write up on it and pundits will give their takes on the news they didnt break on a podcast or youtube video. That is what the majority of gaming news coverage is now. I love retrospective pieces though, or final hours, stuff like that, i wish more sites had write ups like that.
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,659
most gaming media Is an expansion of publisher pr to be fair. there aren't alot of investigative games journalists outside of schreier and a few other people. Most of games media waits for these people to crack stories than ign or whoever will have their own small write up on it and pundits will give their takes on the news they didnt break on a podcast or youtube video. That is what the majority of gaming news coverage is now.

Exactly, and I can't fathom why someone would say that we should just make it official and eliminate any investigative reporting entirely.

Why even have an independent media, then, if they're expected to just be PR mouthpieces so as to not hurt developers' feelings.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,211
As time progress, it feels like every game is starting to get leaked in malicious ways, sadly.

Yeah there was tons of bad faith leaking in the TLOU2 debacle, people using them as ammo for their console wars and culture wars. People were literally fabricating stories of mass dev walkouts at the studio over pay disputes. Pathetic, really
 
Oct 31, 2017
229
I definitely don't quite grasp the gravity of leaks. It seems a lot of people expect it to negatively impact sales if a game leaks and I don't get it. Would the people who wouldn't buy the game because they know what happens be able to wait a day or two After release and just get the information that way? I do feel for developers who lose control over how the discussion of their game starts. I think back to Mario and Rabbids and that bar was so incredibly low based on what people assumed from leaks and it ended up being a pretty interesting game.
 

GMM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,481
Exactly, and I can't fathom why someone would say that we should just make it official and eliminate any investigative reporting entirely.

Why even have an independent media, then, if they're expected to just be PR mouthpieces so as to not hurt developers' feelings.

Investigative journalism should absolutely exist when it comes to videogames and the industry does need more people like Jason Schreier, exposes on poor work culture and crunch is hugely important to bring in to a public discussion to lead to change.

There should however also be some respect for the people developing these games and straight up leaking internal media and core plot details for unreleased or even unannounced projects is more akin to tabloid journalism, it's in poor taste.
 

wafflebrain

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,208
Exactly, and I can't fathom why someone would say that we should just make it official and eliminate any investigative reporting entirely.

Why even have an independent media, then, if they're expected to just be PR mouthpieces so as to not hurt developers' feelings.

I don't think leaks really constitute investigative reporting, it's more clickbait gossip crap, there isn't really any "investigative" value in that at all imo.

Now if it were something specific to the product that was affecting the consumer adversely such as surprise mtx or GAAS nonsense, or features locked behind a paywall then sure that's of value to report on ahead of time to properly educate the consumer on should the dev or publisher be hiding that sort of info prior to release. Plot details or setting? No that's not really important at all for a supposedly investigative piece.