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Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,642
Hamburg, Germany
Agreed, OP. In open world shenanigans I need either a super interesting character + storyline or a character that's my own, as in character generation and customization. I can't be assed to care about random grandma #35 who's a hacker activist, or - as it will probably in actuality go - security guard #12 who you'll play all the time 'cause he's got the best equipment.

It's weird how a series with such a good premise as Watchdogs feels so incredibly uninteresting to me with every release. I feel like i already know exactly how WD3 will feel and play, and I already know it's not for me.
 

Deleted member 49535

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 10, 2018
2,825
Well ofcourse.. he played segmented demo, but once you play the game from start and you build your team by your choice it will feel much different.
This is probably true. Playing as someone you didn't even choose is, of course, going to be a much worse experience, but if you pick them yourself it'll be different.
 

BoxManLocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
France
Yeah I've no interest in this game whatsoever either.

And to be perfectly clear, it's not about WD3 in itself ; I wouldn't care if any other franchise went with this concept. I wouldn't play it, but you'd never see me talking about it.

But to go from Watch_Dogs 2, which was pretty narrative heavy and had a very strong, recognizable main character, to this ? It's a direction I wish they never took and I'm really disappointed. Also it's not like Ubisoft has a bunch of franchises that attempted what WD2 did with its characters ; in fact they have none now, and it's like the final step towards the homogenization of all their franchises.
 
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squidyj

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,670
Well ofcourse.. he played segmented demo, but once you play the game from start and you build your team by your choice it will feel much different.

that's a pretty bold claim. I think it's far more likely that you get nothing out of it. They need to be able to slot basically any controllable char into any situation, it doesn't leave a lot of room for personality to shine through, let alone any sort of arc or connection. It's a system that turns each character you play into a disposable resource, little more than a tool you use to solve the problem at hand. I have INCREDIBLY low hopes for it's ability to generate any sort of attachment to any of your pawns.
 

henhowc

Member
Oct 26, 2017
33,459
Los Angeles, CA
I'm not necessarily interested in this game but I don't see any issues in them trying to do something different and put more of a focus on the gameplay sandbox. Need to differentiate yourself some all the other open world style games somehow.
 

Morten88

Member
Dec 22, 2019
1,841
This is my big concern about this game, i need a main character that i can connect with and that i find interesting to play, if i dont have that, then i normally stop playing the games. I will probably still give this a try tho
 

jobrro

The Fallen
Nov 19, 2017
1,621
Was Day 1 on both WD and WD2 but this mechanic certainly turned me off the game since it was announced.

Will wait and see, maybe get the game down the line when it is down to $20-30.
 

Neuromancer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,754
Baltimore
They're welcome to their opinion but I'm still excited by the possibilities of picking anyone of the street for my team. It's never been done before that I can think of.
 

SRTtoZ

Member
Dec 8, 2017
4,624
Yea I hate the way Ubisoft seems to be going with this create your own story stuff. Create a story I want to play. Don't try to cater to everyone because everything just ends up being more generic that way.
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
26,089
Watch Dogs has never had a remarkable story. By bother when you can do something cool and innovative instead.
 

Pankratous

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,245
Yeah, I enjoyed WD1 and WD2 but I'm skipping Legion unless I get it "free" on PS+ or something.

Not interested in a game that doesn't have a focused narrative through an established character.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
Just from reading this thread even people who care about more story driven games over gameplay didn't really like the main characters from Watch Dogs that much. I guess we aren't missing out much.
 

Tovarisc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,404
FIN
Yea I hate the way Ubisoft seems to be going with this create your own story stuff. Create a story I want to play. Don't try to cater to everyone because everything just ends up being more generic that way.

If goal was to cater to "everyone" / large majority then game would have set protagonist and story revolving around them, as that would be safe design.

Design like this doesn't "cater to everyone".
 

Amir Mirzaee

Member
Sep 9, 2018
89
I think it won't be like that all. The demo played by the IGN writer was probably designed in a way to showcase a few different playstyles, but in reality, I believe the intention has been to get the player attached to different characters or a specific team composition; like we're actually supposed to have favorites.

Obviously the game has dozens of characters, each with their own unique personalities and voice work, and that will definitely repeat throughout the game. Look at the characters that you collect, like your horses in Red Dead or Breath of the Wild. You find someone you really like, their personality is interesting to you, you like their playstyle, how they look and such, so you take them out more than the other characters you have. That specific character levels-up more as a result, and becomes even more powerful, and you sense something like an ownership towards them. And there's permadeath in the game, exactly like the horses in Red Dead or Breath of the Wild, so you tend to take care of them, making sure not to lose them.

It's kind of a new experience, as opposed to a fixed protagonist, but I still think it can work very well, if you look at the game as a playground and the characters as different toys that you can pick and use to your liking. Those toys come in many varieties, they each have their own unique traits and there are common toys or rare toys. The act of finding them, developing them, customizing them, and making a team out of them is really interesting, and in fact the entire appeal of games like Pokemon or Persona. It eventually results in developing connections with the characters that you own.

Honestly it seems really fun, but yeah, it's different.
 

Bricktop

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,847
Honestly, the character swap is probably my favorite reveal about this game. If I want to play as the computer hacker, with robot pals, one day and play as the John Wick super killer the next, I can do that. No one seemed to like the character from the first game and the second game's characters were cringe as hell, so I'm not exactly seeing what we are losing by having a variety of characters where each individual gets to choose their favorite to play as.
 

BoxManLocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
France
If goal was to cater to "everyone" / large majority then game would have set protagonist and story revolving around them, as that would be safe design.

Design like this doesn't "cater to everyone".

Hard disagree. "Be anyone" is about having the largest possible reach of players. It hasn't been done to that extent, I'll give them that.

Having an MC and actually fucking doing something with it is more risky (and more appealing to me), and that's arguably something Ubisoft rarely did, but I had hopes after playing WD2. Hell we had a thread here about a character focused mission in this game not too long ago. It's a shame they have no interest in doing stuff like that anymore.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,037
I think it will be fun to craft your own narrative about the characters. Too be honest I can't tap X/A fast enough to speed up conversations in games. The writing never lives up to the marketing.
 

wafflebrain

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,198
It's not like character writing has been this team's strong suit (well maybe since AC II anyhow), so I'm all for shaking up the WD formula with multiple characters.

GTA V gave us a taste of the multi character thing which was done well enough particularly with how each character animated and felt to control, I'd like to see that kind of diversity again, should mix up the gameplay variety a good amount.
 

ReginaldXIV

Member
Nov 4, 2017
7,783
Minnesota
This game will speak to anyone who really loves proc gen gameplay design (ex. State of Decay and a lot of eurojank games.) If inferring your own narrative based on your team composition and how you flow through the mechanics isn't your thing, I'm not sure if you'd like it.
 

NightShift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,999
Australia
I'm worried about playing as a bunch of random people too. However that kind of makes me more interested since how many single player games are there were there is no definable protagonist? Especially in a big budget game.

Also it can't the worse than WD1 where you played as literally the most boring video game protagonist ever.
 

Pancracio17

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,699
as somebody who plays video games mainly because i enjoy the act of playing a game, the gameplay variety and freedom of approach means more to me than any connection with a character possibly could.
Yeah. First watch dogs game im really interested in. I just hope the encounter design is good really makes use of how many ways you can tackle them.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
Neither Watch Dogs 1 or 2 have good Stories or memorable Characters so that decision doesn't really concern me. I liked the Hackercrew in Watch Dogs 2 even, but none of them are Characters you remember for more than 2 Weeks after you're done with the Game.
The Legion Idea, that you actually play a variety of different Human Beings that are for one Reason or another part of a Resistance Group that fights against Surveliance is narratively more interesting than anything the other 2 Games really did.

I have to disagree. 2 had some absolutely fantastic characters and while the story want super serious it was fun enough for me to remember a lot of it years later.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,876
Las Vegas
It'll be exclusively Punjabis and we move.


That's a winning team always and forever.

tenor.gif
 

etrain911

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,807
This system looks as wide as an ocean and as deep as a puddle to me. I'll probably skip this one, just because story and characters are way more important to me and there are too many open-world games out there that nail one or the other for me to spend time with this one. Even generic protagonists like Link have personality in their reactions and dialogue options. When you can be everyone, it's like being no one.
 

srtrestre

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,965
As long as the game is fun, I couldn't care less about story.

(not sure that the gameplay in this game looks fun, but I'm keeping an open mind)
 

bottledfox

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
1,576
Different strokes for different folks. I know people who enjoy creating narratives about their Pokemon team, and that series has both a silent MC and lackluster writing. But, then again, it could be said to have "personality". And the most personality I've seen from Legion comes from being a badass grandma.
 

Akauser

Member
Oct 28, 2017
833
London
Cant hate on a game trying something radically different. We all yearn for developers to suprise us with new mechanocs and ideas and I for one love this idea and if it works good job if it doesn't revert to type next time but don't let your wonderful ideas die and follow the crowd like everyone else.
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,458
Watch Dogs will forever be the game series that's "almost, but not quite" for me. Watch Dogs 1 was almost legit--everything about it was great for me except Aiden and his boring story. I loved the side characters and the noirish feeling of Chicago.

Watch Dogs 2 was fantastic from a character perspective and I loved being in San Francisco. But the combat was miserable and the only way to really interact with the world was to use your drones to go everywhere.

Watch Dogs 3 seems like it'll fix the combat and London will likely be nice, but I'll hate the fact that I have no connection to the characters. If you want me to make my own story, let me make my own character. Otherwise define the character and let the gameplay be what I customize.

I can tell this isn't for me already because I'm hoping it just doesn't "get in the way" of me enjoying the game. I'm not excited, I don't really care about getting a bunch of procedural characters. If anything I want those 4 "unique" DLC characters.
 

IvorB

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,995
I think that sounds kind of fresh and interesting to be honest but I guess it doesn't fit with third-person, cinematic, narrative-focused, action adventure that everyone seems to want.
 

sonicmj1

Member
Oct 25, 2017
680
The play-everyone concept makes me think about the Tom Francis-developed PC indie Heat Signature, which had you gradually expanding control of a galaxy by controlling a series of proc-gen space thieves each aiming towards their own personal mission. The little bits of personality in the names and few basic details each character had made me feel a lot of personal ownership of their stories. That game even had permadeath and sometimes let you save a character that failed a mission using another character.

It's something I enjoyed a lot so I'm interested to see that open character concept applied to an Ubisoft open world.

Point is that they could do that with one character too with big skill tree. There is no reason why Spy couldn't use wrench or hack drone.

You could do that, but then you'd be telling a totally different story.

I like that unlike most of their games where it's up to the One Great Hero (and their friends) who stands above all others to single-handedly Fight the Power and defeat corruption or abusive power, this is a game about a group of ordinary people who take risks and work together to change things for the better. Everyone has a part to play, and has to make a choice to step up and make a difference.

The fact that the recruitment process seems to come down to doing a few favors for individuals cheapens that, but it's still something I like to see.
 

Dogo Mojo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,157
To me the system sounds kind of like the Nemesis system from the Mordor games but for protagonists instead of enemies. I'm interested to see if they can make it work as the nemesis system is something that I wish more devs would attempt but we will have to wait and see if they can pull it off.
 

samred

Amico fun conversationalist
Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,584
Seattle, WA
I had a similar take after playing the game for four hours for Ars Technica:

In related news, WD:L doesn't sport any sort of quicksave system, and neither does it have "lives." If your current character dies, they'll either be "arrested" or "injured"—meaning, they're in video game timeout. An in-game timer begins ticking until they can come back to the action (about 10 minutes). Once they're back, they're good as new: no penalty, no hospital bill, no posted bail.

This allows players to cheat their way out of certain challenges. One example: nearly all of the missions I played during my preview test ended with some form of "escape the enemy-filled zone," which you can do either via combat or stealth. One time, I died by foolishly rushing into a mess of enemies. I expected the game to rewind upon my death and make me try again, but instead, I became one of my other comrades, who warped into the zone to replace my "injured" character. That new comrade happened to spawn into the zone's exterior, away from the baddies. "Mission complete," the game told me. Ubisoft reps said that worked as intended. Really? Hmm.

That's my biggest beef with the game at this point in its prerelease state. You can control any character you want, but that means they're each full of generic, copy-and-pasteable dialogue, since the gameplay makes clear that they're all replaceable, swappable, and disposable. (I even saw specific long chunks of dialogue repeat a couple of times during my session, spoken by different voice actors.) Most of what they talk about is either a generic, philosophical rebuke of the connected future, condemning the sci-fi trope of unfeeling corporations, or a punk-rock eff-you to the system, man, with almost as many pithy, sarcastic comments as there are swear words.

Could a thrilling, character-driven story emerge in the game's final retail version? WD:L includes hints to some kind of plot akin to a '90s cyber-espionage thriller, though I only saw that stuff in the form of talking heads connecting a mystery's dots as I drove from location to location. But mostly, the game's talking heads boss you around, and the characters you control are mostly made up of cookie-cutter dialogue.

I sure hope there's more to the package, because what I experienced rings hollow in light of a renewed modern-day dialogue about militarized police. Basically, if you're wondering what an apolitical video game looks like, this is it: toothless, cheesy, and so reliant on old tropes that it makes no point of its own.

There's plenty more at my piece from this past Sunday, 7/12:

arstechnica.com

Watch Dogs: Legion hands-on: Play as anyone, care about no one

More games should let you fight and hack as a grandma. But maybe not like this.
 

Kapryov

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,129
Australia
I have a feeling it'll be the same way for me.

I'm sure it's going to be super fun to cause havoc as a number of interesting looking characters, but without some actual characters to come back to it might be difficult to bother finishing the game. Hopefully it's written well enough that you can attach yourself to a few favourites and kinda make your own story with them, given a little imagination.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,286
The concept of being able to play as anyone and tackle objectives any way you want is what makes this game appealing for me. The latest trailer showcasing different ways to complete a mission (cause havoc, use construction tools, or pose as a guard to access a strictly guarded area) tells me that I'm going to have a total blast with the game. I replayed the hell out of the missions in MGSV to try out the seemingly unlimited ways to complete the objective(s), I know I'm gonna have fun doing the same on Legion.

Also it looks like the story & connections to the characters will be built by the players themselves. I'm gonna assemble an all star crew of people with varying skillsets and forming a connection with them as I complete missions. I wish more games do this.

Open world/sandbox games with freedom of approach is my jam, I hope we get similar gameplay innovations on next gen
 

thepenguin55

Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,797
To be completely honest. the story in Ubisoft games have been very hit or miss this generation. I find myself usually getting them to spend time in the world and doing the various activities then for the story.

Every once in a while an Ubi game will surprise me story wise (Origins namely), but I rarely come out of an Ubisoft game saying "man what a great story that was." I've yet to play Watch Dogs 1 and 2, so my interest in this isn't the highest admittedly, but I find what they're doing with Legion to just be very interesting gameplay wise, even if it suffers from it in terms of narrative.

Absolutely. I Ubi's storytelling has been weirdly rough this gen. Having said that, I really enjoyed Watch Dogs 2.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,324
Isnt Legion using a permadeath system like State of Decay's. That franchise has been able to make me feel a connect with my characters despite not having a developer defined main protagonist. I assumed this game would take a similar approach.
 

Arex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,496
Indonesia
I agree, will see how it goes I guess, but I never liked silent protagonist, they're often too detached from the story.
 

Teeth

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,935
There is almost zero doubt in my mind that they wrote 3 or 4 or 5 'sets' of dialogue for any character to use one of in any given story beat or situation. So while you will think that you are able to use literally hundreds of different characters in any given situation you are actually just using one of a handful that all react identically. The lines may be different, but nothing substantial can change (as the permutations have too many butterfly-effect problems), so you will essentially just be playing a single ultimately blandly written character, instead of dozens.