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Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
This is a bad example because Disney deliberately cover up any sort of cleavage etc in the resort costumes to protect their staff.
Yeah, not to mention they're not real. If you dress up like them then yes, that would resemble other equivalent attire that would go against the terms.

Having a dress code isn't necessarily a problem. Having a dress code that perpetuates a double standard for men and women is. What this dress code says is that women need to cover up their bodies if they want to stream to anyone under eighteen, which is patently ridiculous.

It's more dress appropriately (based on their definition). Perfectly acceptable, it fits how broadcasters tailor TV show wardrobe for hosts, for instance based on age of the audience.
 
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Books

Alt account
Banned
Feb 4, 2019
2,180
Don't see the problem. Properly written policy ensures There's no favoritism shown and controversy.
 

rocket

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,306
I think those guidelines are great especially for parents.

I can see how that may upsets some streamers, including but not limited to, boobtubers with a patreon account to sell; the good thing is if they don't agree with their policy they can just stay with whatever platform they are stream from now.

I'd imagine this is also great for advertisers as there will be very well defined age groups within the platform so they can target their advertisements to the different age groups more directly.
 

Cyanity

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,345
This is some next-level bullshit. And the posters saying "seems reasonable" are incredibly disappointing.
 

Lothar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,534
User Banned (3 Days): Inflammatory and inappropriate comparison. Account still in junior phase.
This is some next-level bullshit. And the posters saying "seems reasonable" are incredibly disappointing.

Can we hope that so many are okay with it just because this is the gaming side? Because it's really embarrassing. Expected of a incel forum.
 

DR2K

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,946
Please cover all skin while playing game where you murder people in graphic detail.
 
Jun 17, 2019
397
I can see having some kind of guidelines or standard making sense, but this one is pretty overboard. Like "no breastbone showing or strapless tops" seems kind of absurd.

I can understand like, having a rule like, "don't go overboard with showing cleavage" or something like that, but not this shit lol
 

ry-dog

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,180
Ok..? And am I wrong for saying that human bodies are something we should be teaching kids to understand and be respectful of? Like I 100% agree with you, and yet SURELY you can understand that not everyone on this planet does. And maybe for the parents who want to parent with certain values or boundaries, there should be a market for them? Look, end of the day, you're also just wrong. Look at the Family Friendly streams again. No PUBG, no GTA, no horror. I see Minecraft, Mario Kart, IRL cats, music streams.


I think the bigger problem people aren't seeing here is that this is a larger part of Mixer's moderation platform. YES, the moderation platform that is much tougher on racism, sexism, and other shitty stuff than any other competing platform - Twitch, YT, Facebook. I have nothing against people who want to expose their kids to reality early on. I have nothing against women who want to wear whatever the hell they want in public. But also, this isn't where I want Microsoft to make the stand against millenia of gendered norms. Like.. WOOOO MS IS LETTING PEOPLE GO NUDE!!! Who does that help exactly? Not most female streamers.

So where's the line? Because I'm seeing a lot of complaining by people who don't like these rules and yet I'm seeing almost no solutions that make any sense instead. Hot takes do not a policy make,

If you set your preferences to strict, and click on pubg (or any of those other games I mentioned), you'll find streams (or at least I am).

Liked a sleeveless shirt is something kids see on a regular basis. I don't think we need to be catering towards overly sensitive parents, who wouldn't want their teenager to see such a thing
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,441
This is some next-level bullshit. And the posters saying "seems reasonable" are incredibly disappointing.


Nah those of us saying its fine and reasonable seem to align 100% with the actual women that have been streaming on the platform the last 3 years who agree its a non issue and have actual experience with the questions people are asking in this thread.



But no one seems to care. No one cares at all about what these women actually think, just pretending they care a whooooole lot. All of a sudden... just today...

Please cover all skin while playing game where you murder people in graphic detail.

How many of you all are going to embarrass yourselves in this thread with this shitty hot take?

The rating of the game enforces a rating on the stream itself too. It's completely consistent, and you all are still shitposting.

I dunno why I even bother, this stuff is why I stopped posting on the gaming side in the first place really. Im guessing this is because Microsoft is somewhat involved in ownership, so every 'gamer' loses their ability to approach these discussions rationally because "reasons".
 

AntiMacro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,141
Alberta
User Banned (1 Day): Dismissing concerns, Drive-by
Complaining you can't show your tits is kind of the inverse of the 'titty streamers are stealing my views' argument.
 

cyrribrae

Chicken Chaser
Member
Jan 21, 2019
12,723
If you set your preferences to strict, and click on pubg (or any of those other games I mentioned), you'll find streams (or at least I am).

Liked a sleeveless shirt is something kids see on a regular basis. I don't think we need to be catering towards overly sensitive parents, who wouldn't want their teenager to see such a thing
Ok I scroll down to all streams or top streams. There's a filter button there. I filter all streams by "Family Friendly only" I get: Music, Madden, FH4, Podcasts, IRL cats again, Jackbox, Mario Maker, Minecraft, IRL Drawing, (Oh I do see an anime lady on one of the music streams who would be breaking the Family Friendly designation OOOO), Space Engineers, Fortnite, Rocket League. The list goes on.

Now, I did just pull up a Black Ops stream with 7 people watching. One of the other dudes on his party chat dropped a "fuck" in chat right as I did it. I kind of laughed. Definitely an exception to the rule. I'm sure there are some, the same way Artifact streams on Twitch hosted hardcore porn and straight movie rips for a few days. That doesn't mean the vast majority of users aren't abiding by reasonable rules lol.

Anyway - you know there's a "teen" designation wherein sleeveless shirts are fine soo.. eh.
 

Schierke Mori

Member
Oct 28, 2017
945
My impression from this thread is that everybody is okay with clear guidelines, with a few who disagree with one or two of the guidelines / restrictions.

I see no problem with this - for me, I dislike it when an organization is wishy-washy with their dress code. You can't moderate shit if you don't have clear guidelines to back up your reasoning.
 
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excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330
But no one seems to care. No one cares at all about what these women actually think, just pretending they care a whooooole lot. All of a sudden... just today...

We've had Mixer women tweets posted who did have issues.

Not to mention you know they probably want to grow their streamer base so other women who have issue are also worth listening to.

But sure you can play the y'all are silencing the "real" women card I guess. It's a classic afterall
 

Cyanity

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,345
Nah those of us saying its fine and reasonable seem to align 100% with the actual women that have been streaming on the platform the last 3 years who agree its a non issue and have actual experience with the questions people are asking in this thread.



But no one seems to care. No one cares at all about what these women actually think, just pretending they care a whooooole lot. All of a sudden... just today...



How many of you all are going to embarrass yourselves in this thread with this shitty hot take?

The rating of the game enforces a rating on the stream itself too. It's completely consistent, and you all are still shitposting.

I dunno why I even bother, this stuff is why I stopped posting on the gaming side in the first place really. Im guessing this is because Microsoft is somewhat involved in ownership, so every 'gamer' loses their ability to approach these discussions rationally because "reasons".


You literally gave one example to make your point. Sorry but it's not enough.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,390
Having a dress code isn't necessarily a problem. Having a dress code that perpetuates a double standard for men and women is. What this dress code says is that women need to cover up their bodies if they want to stream to anyone under eighteen, which is patently ridiculous.

There is no double standard. All men and women who wants to stream to those under 18 have to cover up the same parts of their body.
 

Cyanity

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,345
There is no double standard. All men and women who wants to stream to those under 18 have to cover up the same parts of their body.

But men almost always wear sleeved shirts while streaming. Women traditionally have more options, which is why these rules definitely affect them on a greater level.

Rules applied equally don't always result in equal punishments for different groups of people.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,390
But men almost always wear sleeved shirts while streaming. Women traditionally have more options, which is why these rules definitely affect them on a greater level.

Rules applies equally don't always result in equal punishments for different groups of people.

So what your saying is that you want a seperate set of standards that account for the fact that women are more likely to choose to wear garments that show more skin?

You're right, this will effect women's wardrobes more than men. But that's not due to double standards in the policy. It's because, for whatever reason, men's shirts that reveal the chest area aren't popular.

Microsoft isn't here to balance the fact that women's fashion is generally much more diverse than men's. They are here to keep Streamers who use their wardrobes to titillate their audience, out of the kids section. If it means some family-friendly streamers will experience some limitations in their clothing options, so be it. Like you said, women traditionally have plenty of options, so it realistically shouldn't be an issue. Also, the teen/18+ sections aren't barren wastelands.

Edit : I also don't know why people keep talking about sleeves and shoulders? ... There's no restriction on sleeveless and no mention of shoulders at all in the guidelines.
 
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Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,441
You literally gave one example to make your point. Sorry but it's not enough.

H7AWYbR.png


The discussion where the Mixer founder is literally online reading and accepting feedback while women streamers who have used the platform and continue to; offer their viewpoints on this issue:





6dZpGgY.png


datfMa6.png


zvG9Ogb.png


1cy86JK.png


n6EEPFk.png








AjuuA6M.png


CKhMxko.png


Want more? Or does their not agreeing with you make what they think as a majority.... no longer matter?

Maybe as someone so interested in the topic you would have looked it up yourself instead of relying on me to go get it for you? Nah.

I honestly couldnt care less about a Ninja or a competitor to Twitch arriving. It's the blatant bullshit from people pretending to be pious that I can't swallow. Makes me sick.
 
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Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,441
What does this even mean lol.

Pretending to be pious?


For one, I take extreme offense to people saying shit like: "Anyone that finds this anything other than offensive is disgusting" and variations thereof thats ALL OVER this thread. It makes it very clear that people are throwing their two cents and don't really care much for how those supposedly effected actually feel about this. Just posturing. Thats what makes me think Gaming sides tribalism is behind most of this. The people that actually use the platform overwhelmingly have no problem with it. Like... OVERWHELMINGLY. And I can personally vouch for the streaming community as a whole definitely desiring clearer and more concise dress codes for the streaming space in particular.

I find it absurd that it actually happens and now out of nowhere these 'concerned parties' show up to tell everyone who disagrees with them how terrible they are. Its stupid, and worthy of mockery. You don't have to like the dress code of mixer, finding the right position on the spectrum for things like this will always be difficult; but if you could do so without insulting the character of the people that don't share your 1:1 opinion on such a subjective manner, I think you would find them attacking you in return might just stop as well.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,319
H7AWYbR.png


The discussion where the Mixer founder is literally online reading and accepting feedback while women streamers who have used the platform and continue to; offer their viewpoints on this issue:





6dZpGgY.png


datfMa6.png


zvG9Ogb.png


1cy86JK.png


n6EEPFk.png








AjuuA6M.png


CKhMxko.png


Want more? Or does their not agreeing with you make what they think as a majority.... no longer matter?

Maybe as someone so interested in the topic you would have looked it up yourself instead of relying on me to go get it for you? Nah.

I honestly couldnt care less about a Ninja or a competitor to Twitch arriving. It's the blatant bullshit from people pretending to be pious that I can't swallow. Makes me sick.

Yeah but those all don't count cause they don't fit my narriative that mixer bad
 
Jun 17, 2019
397
We've had Mixer women tweets posted who did have issues.

Not to mention you know they probably want to grow their streamer base so other women who have issue are also worth listening to.

But sure you can play the y'all are silencing the "real" women card I guess. It's a classic afterall
I mean I think the policy is more silly than it isn't, but there's a lot more evidence to suggest that the people actually effected by it don't really give a shit about it than otherwise, so I'm not really sure how I can impose my opinion on them. Nor do I think these hypothetical "women who aren't using Mixer but might want to maybe someday" should have any bearing on it either.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330
For one, I take extreme offense to people saying shit like: "Anyone that finds this anything other than offensive is disgusting" and variations thereof thats ALL OVER this thread. It makes it very clear that people are throwing their two cents and don't really care much for how those supposedly effected actually feel about this. Just posturing. Thats what makes me think Gaming sides tribalism is behind most of this. The people that actually use the platform overwhelmingly have no problem with it. Like... OVERWHELMINGLY. And I can personally vouch for the streaming community as a whole definitely desiring clearer and more concise dress codes for the streaming space in particular.

I find it absurd that it actually happens and now out of nowhere these 'concerned parties' show up to tell everyone who disagrees with them how terrible they are. Its stupid, and worthy of mockery. You don't have to like the dress code of mixer, finding the right position on the spectrum for things like this will always be difficult; but if you could do so without insulting the character of the people that don't share your 1:1 opinion on such a subjective manner, I think you would find them attacking you in return might just stop as well.

I mean fair enough but you came in hot with the "actual women" line. There were a few in that chain who have issue with the rules but you glossed over them to make your argument that 100% no one had issue.

Not to mention other women are free to criticize a policy too, especially again because it's a less established platform that these rules might turn off people not from their ecosystem already.

Also I'm not going to lie there's some under the surface judgment in that Twitter chain directed at those who have issues with the rules, with implications that women who have issue the rules want to flaunt their skin, or value themselves less, or are not professional.

Ultimately I think you ought to take care not to call out "tribalism" while kinda engaging in it yourself
 
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Fugu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,733
There is no double standard. All men and women who wants to stream to those under 18 have to cover up the same parts of their body.
Just because the standard is formally neutral doesn't mean that it is actually neutral. This is the distinction between formal and substantive equality and is the difference between lip service to correcting gender equality and actually correcting gender equality.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330
And I still maintain this conversation has bern fruitful if only to demonstrate how quickly women's clothing gets compared to being naked or half naked.
 

Dennis8K

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,161
So I can't stream with my dick out?

Seems like censorship. How can anyone even play Uno like that?
 

zedox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,215
And I still maintain this conversation has bern fruitful if only to demonstrate how quickly women's clothing gets compared to being naked or half naked.
So basically since Cipherr destroyed all the points you've been trying to make with actual evidence from women using the platform...you decide to focus on this other side point that has nothing to do with the actual topic at hand.

Nice goalpost move. It's OK to admit you were wrong. People can respect that.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,390
Just because the standard is formally neutral doesn't mean that it is actually neutral. This is the distinction between formal and substantive equality and is the difference between lip service to correcting gender equality and actually correcting gender equality.

again, it's not Microsoft's role to close the gap in popularity between more revealing men's and womens clothing. they aren't fashion designers. They are a service provider interested in ensuring their family-friendly channels feature family-friendly content.

It doesn't take detailed analysis to realize that the types of clothing streamers wear
when pushing sexualized content tends to show a lot of chest and/or midriff, so that's the type of clothing Mixer put restrictions on. This policy disproportionately effects women because women more often find this type of clothing comfortable and/or fashionable, not because the policy is sexist. They didn't offer substantive gender equality they offered a formal policy that aims to keep their youngest viewers from content from streamers who might be too racy. That certain articles Of clothing might get restricted despite a lack of intent isnt burdensome. Not or is the fact that these articles are most likely to be warn by women.
 
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excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330
So basically since Cipherr destroyed all the points you've been trying to make with actual evidence from women using the platform...you decide to focus on this other side point that has nothing to do with the actual topic at hand.

Nice goalpost move. It's OK to admit you were wrong. People can respect that.

Destroyed my points?

I engaged them did you miss that, it did actually come first.

This was a secondary comment

Believe it or not this girl can walk and chew gum at the same time.


Regardless he's not the first to try to narrow out the conversation to just women in that Twitter chain... a few who actually did have issues so it was not the 100% he presented it as.

And I've long maintained that they're not the only women who are allowed to have an opinion here.

That said this thread has also been a useful live snapshot about the way a lot of men talk about women's clothing and how quickly we get to #halfnaked. That's just a nice entertaining bonus.

But if you want to take it as my noble defeat, my utter destruction. Hey I'm happy if you're happy.
 

Cyanity

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,345
H7AWYbR.png


The discussion where the Mixer founder is literally online reading and accepting feedback while women streamers who have used the platform and continue to; offer their viewpoints on this issue:





6dZpGgY.png


datfMa6.png


zvG9Ogb.png


1cy86JK.png


n6EEPFk.png








AjuuA6M.png


CKhMxko.png


Want more? Or does their not agreeing with you make what they think as a majority.... no longer matter?

Maybe as someone so interested in the topic you would have looked it up yourself instead of relying on me to go get it for you? Nah.

I honestly couldnt care less about a Ninja or a competitor to Twitch arriving. It's the blatant bullshit from people pretending to be pious that I can't swallow. Makes me sick.


Examples taken. I see your point. I guess I'll just move the goalpost a bit and say that it just seems ridiculous to me that there are any guidelines at all for the 18+ crowd.
 

Deleted member 15395

Unshakable Resolve
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,145
I'm not going over 15 pages of this stuff so I apologize is this has been posted already:

"Stream rating of 18+ simply means that the streamer is stating the channel is not suitable for children, that the streamer does not want children in the room, or that the streamer is playing a mature game. It is up to parents to check what their child is watching, NOT the streamer's responsibility to act as parent or guardian in their stead. "

"Mature Content and Nudity - Content of a mature or sexualized nature has different standards and requirements than other types. Sex/Sexualized content, should never be the main focus of a stream."

Frankly speaking, I don't see what all the fuss is about, this seems mostly common sense to me since we're dealing with a gaming streaming platform. And also, you're all insane if you think MS is going to allow Mixer to become anything resembling what Twitch is now.
 

VN1X

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,027
I don't get why people are upset by others that find this reasonable lol. You can still go to twitch if you want to see lewd content while a game is being 'played' (shown) in the background.

I for one am glad that there's a streaming site that offers clear guidelines. Hopefully we can except more quality content from the platform this way.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,390
Examples taken. I see your point. I guess I'll just move the goalpost a bit and say that it just seems ridiculous to me that there are any guidelines at all for the 18+ crowd.

Why shouldn't there be guidelines for 18+. Like if they don't want their service to be the wild west, why can't they be free to mold it the way they see fit?
 
Sep 14, 2018
4,628
Straight men are so quick to objectify women's bodies they don't even notice how gross they are. The language people have used to talk about this is not surprising at all, just more poisoned minds.
 

Kiekura

Member
Mar 23, 2018
4,043
Examples taken. I see your point. I guess I'll just move the goalpost a bit and say that it just seems ridiculous to me that there are any guidelines at all for the 18+ crowd.

A freaking pornhub have guidelines. You need them to moderate and keeping site for what it is and what you want it to be about.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330
You can still go to twitch if you want to see lewd content while a game is being 'played' (shown) in the background.


I for one am glad that there's a streaming site that offers clear guidelines. Hopefully we can except more quality content from the platform this way.

See and this is why this thread is fruitful it's a great exposure of folks who immediately jump to sex and cam girls, in response to folks criticizing dress codes, and do it with dripping derision for certain types of women.

The dance around respectability is cute too.
 
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VN1X

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,027
User Banned (2 Weeks): Sexism Over Multiple Posts in this Thread
See and this is why this thread is fruitful it's a great exposure of folks who immediately jump to sex and cam girls, in response to folks criticizing dress codes, and do it with dripping derision for certain types of women.

The dance around respectability is cute too.
I mean you can literally stream yourself in a skimpy outfit on twitch while doing drugs and get a ton of views for basically doing absolutely fuck all (at work now so can't link to a mirror of that particular stream). There's plenty of other examples of women doing just that or otherwise 'exploiting' sad cunts in their bedrooms (read: kids with access to their parents' payment information). Subscribe and you might even get access to their private instagram where you'll receive daily DM's and nude pics! Quality content.

How hard is it to just dress appropriately (no one is advocating for Amish-level attire lol, a bit of cleavage is fine) and stream a fucking videogame or what have you? Like why is ASMR filled with softporn? You can't just stream yourself tickling a microphone without resorting to barely concealing outfits? Honestly, that shit is just sad and demeaning for everyone involved.

But hey whatever floats yer boat gets you stiffy.
 
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excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330
I mean you can literally stream yourself in a skimpy outfit on twitch while doing drugs and get a ton of views for basically doing absolutely fuck all (at work now so can't link to a mirror of that particular stream). There's plenty of other examples of women just exploiting sad cunts in their bedrooms or underage boys with their parents' payment information. Fuck em'.

How hard is it to just dress normally (no one is advocating for Amish-level attire lol, a bit of cleavage is fine) and stream a fucking videogame or what have you? Like why is ASMR filled with softporn? You can't just stream yourself tickling a microphone without resorting to barely concealing outfits? That shit is just sad and demeaning for everyone involved.

But hey whatever floats yer boat gets you stiffy.

I rest my case
 

jipewithin

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,094
I don't understand what's the problem in just doing 18+ streams?

Guidelines seems fine to me, clearly they don't want to become what twitch is and its good.