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Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,624
(Article has a video version of the article)
Dreams started life as a sculpting tool.

Many years later, and on the brink of a full disc release, it's also a self-contained game development kit, an animation studio, a synthesiser, a series of games about a detective who is a bipedal pig, a short film about how good oranges are, a speculative PS5 concept art showcase, and whatever the hell these are.

Dreams' performative toolset is responsible for everything you've just read about, and can make for much, much more besides. Which makes one key question about it pretty hard - how do you even describe Dreams? When I ask developers at Media Molecule who have been working on it for the best part of a decade, even they struggle.

It's something of a cliche, but Dreams really is something you need to get your hands on to begin to comprehend - and it'll likely click for you at a different point to anyone else. For some, it'll be when they realise that this is a free-form creation machine, allowing you to create a sculpture, paint it, animate it, even compose a backing track without leaving a single screen. For others, it'll be when they play a game, enjoy a character design in it, and realise they can use that same character in their own creation.

But for me, it was when I realised the act of searching through the Dreamiverse - dropping down rabbitholes of unexpected art by clicking related tags, searching creators' histories, or seeing how a single piece of music have been used across multiple creations - was most reminiscent of idly clicking through YouTube, riding the algorithm into unexpected creative corners. Except Dreams isn't just for videos. It's a YouTube for visual art, music, games, and things too weird to have a proper name yet. It's a YouTube for, well, everything.

If it wasn't already clear, Media Molecule pays attention to its creators. Everyone I talk to in the office speaks about their own favourites like we're discussing a music collection. There are all-time classics that everyone has to check out, hidden gems, outsider artists. If a staff member hadn't played Haus of Bevis, I can imagine a very Jack-Black-in-High-Fidelity situation taking place. At one point, we sit in a meeting room, and six developers loudly swap favourites around me – "BukkoroChan! SlurmMacKenzie! Awesome_David!" – and we completely forget what we're here for. Again, just like YouTube, surfing Dreams will inevitably lead to you picking favourite channels, to which you'll return again and again. In fact, one creator was so popular among the developers that the team went ahead and hired him.

"When I went [into Dreams], I just sort of expected it to be a game design suite, which it is. And then I just found out that I could do everything else in it." This is Jamie Breeze, a seasoned LittleBigPlanet creator under the moniker of j_plusb, who made the shift into Dreams to see how much more he could do with it. His first creation was The Rake, a comedy high score game in which you play a man who repeatedly hits himself in the face with the titular gardening tool. It got a good response, and he set about making much more.

"I just kept making things every week. I knew there was a community creation stream, they had them on Thursdays, so I just started making things for that. And I saw that my Rake game was showcased. And then they showcased a golf game I made in it. And then it was a llama game, which was really cool. And I saw there was a job opening for a Community Content Creator. I sort of left it to the last minute and then I thought, 'Well, I'm going to apply to that.' I'm so glad that I did it."

There is a lot A LOT more in the article but watching the video is best.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,040
I'm just in aw.

It feels like JUST yesterday I was fucking around in LBP1 as a teen in High School. So many hours poured into it. And now 12 years later and I wish I had that kind of time again to pour into this generational leap of a follow up. Being a working adult has its downsides, I envy the kids today.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,753
Dreams is still in its very early days and it's already showing so much promise. It really will become to Youtube of gaming if they keep stoking the fires by promoting it, continuing to improve the tools, adding templates, making it easier for people to create things and eventually expand to more platforms. Add to that the performance boost that will inevitably come with next gen hardware and Dreams will be huge.

I'm glad they've been talking about a 10 year plan for the platform as well. Now we just need a separate, adult version of Dreams for the porn world and we're set :D
 

DavidDesu

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,718
Glasgow, Scotland
I'm just looking forward to seeing how analog stick controls work. The motion controls look so fluid and natural when watching the pros at it, in my hands I end up disoriented upside down 500 miles away from my creation in no time at all and find it super frustrating. (I really wish they had some kind of horizontal lock on moving the camera around, just with my natural hand movement I end up spinning the camera wildly up or down very quickly, arghhh!).
 

Moebius

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,384
Dreams is a masterpiece I just wish it ran better. It's not terrible at all, but it would just feel much better with a higher framerate. I think they said it will run on PS5 so it should be even better there.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
Crucially, the dreams load super fast. Makes browsing a lot more pleasurable than it was in Little Big Planet. , where shit could take a long time to load.
 

MDSVeritas

Gameplay Programmer, Sony Santa Monica
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,026
Crucially, the dreams load super fast. Makes browsing a lot more pleasurable than it was in Little Big Planet. , where shit could take a long time to load.

Yeah the whole concept of dream-surfing is made so much easier by the fact that you're pretty seamlessly loading between dreams so quickly.
 

ThisOne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,938
I'm excited to play it. Honestly, my biggest concern at this point is that it won't sell well enough to produce a lot of fun, worthwhile content. I haven't played Early Access so I have no idea how much content is already out there but I worry it won't be the huge amount that is probably needed to keep something like this interesting. If it explodes, it could become the next Roblox, albeit for a older audience.
 

TechnicPuppet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,809
I actually can't in any way understand what they mean by the title. I've read the article but it doesn't make sense to me at all.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
I'm excited to play it. Honestly, my biggest concern at this point is that it won't sell well enough to produce a lot of fun, worthwhile content. I haven't played Early Access so I have no idea how much content is already out there but I worry it won't be the huge amount that is probably needed to keep something like this interesting. If it explodes, it could become the next Roblox, albeit for a older audience.

Depends what you mean by worthwhile. Theres not much in the way of games you'll come back to over and over, but you can browse the trending stuff for hours at a time and its really interesting.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,351
This is the best video I've seen about Dreams. It explains what's so cool about it in a great way. It is like a YouTube for everything on your PS4.

Can't believe it's finally coming out next week!
 

TechnicPuppet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,809

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
I still have a two main queries about the game which I hope will be answered in time:

1. How will backward compatibility play into Dreams-

Are they planning on releasing a PS5 version, because, from the sounds of it, PS5 will do BC via mimicing PS4 (Pro) specs (judging from the info in the next gen speculation thread) and thus, if the only version ever released was PS4 then the performance ceiling will the Pro alone, even after PS5 is launched.

2. Although it is highly unlikely, would there be a legal recourse if someone rips one your creations by recreating it (notably partly or wholly) in a different engine and making it commercially available via something like Steam?

In the video, the creative director talks about his hopes of making this a mainstream development tool folks can use to make commercially viable products (like they do with Unreal, Unity and CryEngine). So, there will be a period of time where games will be made purely for the community w/o any commercial transaction. It is this period that worries me.

Sounds amazing and I can't wait. It's still VR compatible, right ?

They're working on it.
 

Larrikin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,712
YouTube already has everything of everything. Like everything.
Youtube has no truly interactive things to my knowledge. The closest it gets is a poll or one of those things where videos link to other videos etc. But you're being intentionally obtuse if you're not getting that this can do all those and more, hence being everythinger.
 

Electro

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,899
Vienna
Well made video :)

I believe Dreams will have a good and long future.
Healey would like to see that people can sell their larger projects on PSN sounds also interesting.
 

rusty chrome

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,640
Just one more week. :)

Preordered awhile ago on PSN. I love this video. Agree completely with IGN here. I have so many ideas written down that I want to create.
 

Dabi3

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,552
I'm so glad TLOU 2 got pushed. I got three solid weeks with this beauty.
 

Pikelet

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,399
Although it is highly unlikely, would there be a legal recourse if someone rips one your creations by recreating it (notably partly or wholly) in a different engine and making it commercially available via something like Steam?

In the video, the creative director talks about his hopes of making this a mainstream development tool folks can use to make commercially viable products (like they do with Unreal, Unity and CryEngine). So, there will be a period of time where games will be made purely for the community w/o any commercial transaction. It is this period that worries me.
I wouldn't worry about this. Having your Dream be made available for sale wouldn't make you protected from people ripping off your game anyway. Steam is filled with ripoffs of commercially available games, and so long as they aren't directly copying assets they pretty much get away with it just fine.

I personally hope they never really push too hard on the commercial angle. I'd much rather they keep the current community feel where the best creators are helping each other and sharing assets, as opposed to a marketplace where they are all incentivized to compete with each other.
 

Deleted member 25606

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
8,973
Great breakdown and it's part of my excitement, not only is it not just a level creator but a multimedia toolset for movies, music, etc.

And have to +1 the SlurmMacKenzie nod.
 

Andalusia

Alt Account
Member
Sep 26, 2019
620
Dreams is still in its very early days and it's already showing so much promise. It really will become to Youtube of gaming if they keep stoking the fires by promoting it, continuing to improve the tools, adding templates, making it easier for people to create things and eventually expand to more platforms. Add to that the performance boost that will inevitably come with next gen hardware and Dreams will be huge.

I'm glad they've been talking about a 10 year plan for the platform as well. Now we just need a separate, adult version of Dreams for the porn world and we're set :D
Are Sony going to monetize the game? If not then I honestly don't believe their 10 year plan buzz phrase. Why would Sony offer support for a game for 10 years when they already made all the money they are going to make off of it ~9-8-7 years ago (ie when it releases for PS4/PS5 anf potentially PC)
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,505
Are Sony going to monetize the game? If not then I honestly don't believe their 10 year plan buzz phrase. Why would Sony offer support for a game for 10 years when they already made all the money they are going to make off of it ~9-8-7 years ago (ie when it releases for PS4/PS5 anf potentially PC)

LBP made tons of money selling licensed costumes, I think they'll try it again.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,753
Are Sony going to monetize the game? If not then I honestly don't believe their 10 year plan buzz phrase. Why would Sony offer support for a game for 10 years when they already made all the money they are going to make off of it ~9-8-7 years ago (ie when it releases for PS4/PS5 anf potentially PC)

There're ways for them to earn money from Dreams after selling it. There's already been talk about letting creators in Dreams export their creations and sell it on PSN, meaning Sony would get their normal cut of the sale. Dreams is also an interesting gateway for Sony to potentially find new talent, for example Media Molecule already hired one of the creators for Dreams. There could be people out there who don't know a damn thing about programming but could create amazing games or art in Dreams that become wildly popular, potentially to the point where Sony offers to bring them on board for more exclusive content.

Right now everything made in Dreams is done only with Move controllers and a DS4. No doubt in the future we'll see keyboard and mouse support added, probably both on console and PC (I feel it's all but guaranteed to come to PC at some point) meaning an even larger audience of people could make things on the platform.

As for traditional monetization options like content packs, I'm not 100% sure about that. The appeal of Dreams is you can make everything within the game and share it, so selling additional content would probably be a nightmare to manage in that sort of ecosystem.

Beyond that, Sony will continue to sell consoles for many years, and all of those new owners are potential purchasers of Dreams (unless they pre-install it on every PS5 like some are hoping). And further beyond that if they expand Dreams to other platforms like PC, Xbox and Switch (much like they're doing for MLB) then that will be a huge step towards making it a Youtube of gaming and be an avenue to sell more copies for many years.

Hell if they add Dreams to PS Now so that you can eventually use it on mobile devices then that's another group of people to tap into.

Right now though, this is just the beginning. I dunno how big their dreams (heh) are here, but if they play their cards right this could be massive for them.
 

Andalusia

Alt Account
Member
Sep 26, 2019
620
LBP made tons of money selling licensed costumes, I think they'll try it again.
Yeah and even then they released 6 games in the series during it's 6 year life span. Here they are talking about supporting a single game for TEN YEARS. It's going to requite a serious monetization incentive for Sony to support it for that long. I honestly don't believe them. Their current marketing push for the game doesn't make it seem like they are that interested now so I'd be beyond amazed if they were still engaging with the game 6 years (like LBP) from now let alone 10.
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
I wouldn't worry about this. Having your Dream be made available for sale wouldn't make you protected from people ripping off your game anyway. Steam is filled with ripoffs of commercially available games, and so long as they aren't directly copying assets they pretty much get away with it just fine.

I personally hope they never really push too hard on the commercial angle. I'd much rather they keep the current community feel where the best creators are helping each other and sharing assets, as opposed to a marketplace where they are all incentivized to compete with each other.

Thank you.
 

Pikelet

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,399
Are Sony going to monetize the game? If not then I honestly don't believe their 10 year plan buzz phrase. Why would Sony offer support for a game for 10 years when they already made all the money they are going to make off of it ~9-8-7 years ago (ie when it releases for PS4/PS5 anf potentially PC)
I'm sure that monetization is in the cards at some point. This is the low-hanging fruit ideas:
  • Ports that retain backwards compatibility but increase the thermo limits
  • New mini-campaigns that can be sold as DLC
  • High quality asset packs that can be sold as DLC.
    • Assets could include high quality sculpts or characters, but they they could potentially sell more game templates for different genres, e.g. a Tower Defence template

When we getting the era team together tho
We got a lot of talent in the ResetEra roster imo. A lot of the top-tier creators are regular posters, such as:
- Slurms Mackenzie
- Rodelero
- Orioto
to name a few.
 
Oct 25, 2017
56,652
I'm sure that monetization is in the cards at some point. This is the low-hanging fruit ideas:
  • Ports that retain backwards compatibility but increase the thermo limits
  • New mini-campaigns that can be sold as DLC
  • High quality asset packs that can be sold as DLC.
    • Assets could include high quality sculpts or characters, but they they could potentially sell more game templates for different genres, e.g. a Tower Defence template


We got a lot of talent in the ResetEra roster imo. A lot of the top-tier creators are regular posters, such as:
- Slurms Mackenzie
- Rodelero
- Orioto
to name a few.
Just add me to the music team
 

litebrite

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,832
If Dreams is as good as it seems, and is a success as a creative toolset that people can express themselves, experiment, and actually learn from then Sony should consider not only porting it to PC, but also to Xbox. It has a chance to be Sony's Minecraft.
 

Pikelet

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,399
On the topic of monetisation, the tweet below caught my eye:


A nice look at 'Art's Dream' - the first full game we've made in Dreams.

Saying that the campaign is the 'first' full game they've made in Dreams implies that they have more coming. Seems like a pretty decent bet that they will release more of them as DLC.
 

travisbickle

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,953
It's difficult to predict the future of Dreams, but as mentioned in the video I think it will be defined by the players.
I don't think people understand how much the community are going to shape what happens in Dreams. For example, there's a game called "Pip Gemwalker" made in Early Access as an original 7-level puzzle game, then another player broke down the level and released a "remix toolkit" with all the assets, then a number of remixed titles have been made by others in the Early Access: with new levels, different themes and some with new mechanics.

Pip Gemwalker
Pip Gemwalker RemixToolkit

Pip Gemwalker: KidNapped
Pip gemwalker: seaside summit
Pip Gemwalker - Spooky Maze
Pip Gemwalker - Rocket ruins
Pip Gemwalker Sweetooth Galaxy

Totally developed outside of the influence of Mm.

Also an astute comment on the video "it's not hard to sell it to this generation (who publish online), but it's more difficult to sell it as to what is a traditional video game".
 

Gradly

Member
Nov 11, 2017
890
The footage from the campaign/story look fantastic, better than anything I saw from the community haha. Can't wait to play it on PS5 😁
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Honestly, Dreams is probably the most ambitious and creatively impressive 'game' I've ever played. I'm endlessly surprised and occasionally even blown away by people's creations, and it's also just fun to dabble with, especially with family and friends.

How they've made game or content creation so accessible, beautiful and fun, is incredibly impressive. It makes stuff like Roblox and ProjectSpark seem decididely barebones and simplistic in comparison.

It's also cool that they've actually hired one of the content creators. Though I do think they should introduce a tip system to better reward content creators without enforcing any paid restrictions.

Also, this from the video looks ridiculously good lol. Like good lord, how can a game content creation tool on the PS4, result in content this visually impressive?

full_beech_breakfast_dreams.0.jpg